Condition Of Gurdwaras In Pakistan

[kam1825]

the first and third pics are not actually of a gurdwaa. That is the dera of Hamza Gous of Sialkot who held a discourse with Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

[Mehtab Singh]

the first and third pics are not actually of a gurdwaa. That is the dera of Hamza Gous of Sialkot who held a discourse with Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Thanks for pointing it out veerjee, and my apologies. I got this from a Singh's Facebook album where these were labelled as a Gurdwara.

[West London Singh]

So since Muslims visit Punjab, we are expected to maintain the mosques (which Sikhs do anyways), but since Sikhs hardly visit Pakistan (except for Sri Nankana Sahib and Sri Panja Sahib), its no big deal if they desecrate the Gurdwaras???

No Mehtab Singh, YOU re-read what I said again. I didn't say anything about any 'visits'. Ths situation with muslims in rural Jalandhar district is not one of temporary 'visits' but one of permanent living. A growing permanent local muslim population. Be they gujjars....be they Bihari farm-hands etc. They are now, and have increasingly been for the last decade or so, permanent residents of Indian Punjab.

Nobody is condoning the desecration of any places of worship. I'm simply stating that we are just as bad if not more so when it comes to respecting the others places of worship.

But.....put yourself in the position of a typical village Pakistan boy in ditrict Sahiwal. You're looking for a place to practice your bowling or batting. You find this big abandoned building in the middle of nowhere. You have no idea it used to be a Sikh Gurdwara a long time ago. You don't even know what a Sikh is. You've never seen one or heard of one and neither have your parents. Such a thing only existed in your grandfathers time. Who you never saw or met anyway. Now.....I ask you...is this wicked 'desecration' ?.....or is this simply a boy playing cricket in an open building ?

[Mehtab Singh]

Fine, you've made yourself a bit more clearer as this would be a case of pure ignorance as you have suggested and one can't really blame the kid for not knowing the history. Once again, the gujjars or Biharis who are Muslims do have Sikhs maintaining the mosques in Punjab. The small population of Sikhs in Pakistan isn't that lucky. It all boils down to political power. Muslims are a huge vote bank in India, Sikhs in Pakistan are not. Muslims in India can get their organizations to re-build mosques in Punjab, Sikh organizations...lets not even go there. I now seem to understand what you are trying to say. My only concern is, how often do we come across news that shows Muslims taking care of Gurdwaras in Pakistan as compared to Sikhs taking care of mosques in Indian Punjab? I am sure individuals on both sides do what they can, and thats good. Yes every place of worship is to be respected and given the utmost regard, but I repeat, the Gurdwaras over there hold far more significance for us than the mosques on our side do for them. The Muslims in rural Jalandhar are fortunate that their Sikh neighbors are helping out in re-building mosques. Can we say the same for the Sikhs in Lahore and Sialkot?

[Freed]

Gurfateh !

Pictures 1 and 3 are of Gurdwara Ber Sahib in Sialkot - like Kam Bhai Sahib has said it commemorates Guru Nanak Sahib's meeting with Hazrat Hamza Ghaus - it was built in the 19th century by Baba Nath Singh Shaheed - whose samadh is also located there. Giani Gian Singh wrote his 'Twareek Guru Khalsa' whilst staying at this Gurdwara. The Gurdwara has suffered not just at partition but also after the demolition of The Babri Masjid when parts of it were demolished by a mob seeking revenge.

Picture 2 is of a Gurdwara in Abbotabad

Picture 4 is of the Singh Sabha Gurdwara in Mansehra - now a library.

[Mehtab Singh]

Thanks veerjee.

[gurdssingh]

http://news.rediff.c...during-1947.htm

It is an inspiring story, of sikhs helping and respecting the muslim locals. But remember Guru Hargobind Ji made that building a mosques so its not really suprising Sikhs maintained and respected the place, as it had a connection with our Guru. Also their was the historical preserving factor, about restoring protected buildings.

More admirable is the story of the village in Ropar distt. they actually built a mosque for the poor muslims.

But you have to take into consideration the number of native Muslims born and living in Punjab, India. You are bound to come across a few families all over the place. Especailly Malerkotla has a high visiable population. But in Pakistan there are merely a handful of Sikhs. Muslims in Punjab are just fractionally less percentage wise than Sikhs in India. But in Pakistan they are hardly visable. I'm talking about citizens not vistors or pilgrims. Most Muslims in Pakistan don't even know much about Sardars, they consider us Hindhu. Only non resident pakistanis in western countries or the older pre-partition lot know of Sikhi. So its not really suprising they would restore or hand back Gurdware as they are hardly any Sikhs to handback too. I googled it, i found NO accurate figures but on wikipedia it is estimated at about 20,000 Sikhs in a country of over 170, 000,000 so like 0001%. Where as muslims in Punjab are 1.57% and Sikhs in india are 1.9%. So not that much percentage wise in Sikhs in the whole country of India and native Punjabi muslims.

Obviously there are much more significant places of worship for Sikhs in Pakistan as our Gurus were born, travelled, lived etc. there. Islam is a arabic religion all holy places were just related to famous popular pirs / fakirs etc. in Punjab

.

I never been to Pakistan but my family members have been on yatra, they said the more important (All gurdwara are important you know what i mean like historically significant i,e Nanakana Sahib, Panja Sahib etc. ) are well maintained and all the sevadars are very welcoming. As the local muslim population around the more significant Gurdware know of Sikhi, they are very helpful and respectful to yatree's. You can also see muslims doing darshan, and i was told they are very warm and welcoming even police officals no hassel or problems at all.

[chatanga]

the first and third pics are not actually of a gurdwaa. That is the dera of Hamza Gous of Sialkot who held a discourse with Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

you would have the muslims would have kept the dargah of one oif their pirs in a better condition wouoldnt you?

maybe its in that state cos its actually was a gurdwara.

[sukhjeevansingh]

you know what though ji, the muslim tombs kabars etc are very well taken of. our people especially in doaba worship them...

[West London Singh]

you know what though ji, the muslim tombs kabars etc are very well taken of. our people especially in doaba worship them...

Yeah but thats got nothing to do with it being a non-sikh or 'muslim' tomb or shrine. That can simply be explained by the fact that very few Sikhs in Punjab know the first thing about Sikhism. As such, they bow down and pray, as if it were part of Sikhism, at all kinds of things.....most of all the family 'jathera'. It's not the average muslim in Pakistan's fault that he's a bit more clued up and proud of his religion than the average Sikh in Punjab. His religion forbids him to pray at Sikh gurdwaras just as our religion forbids us from worshipping in muslim mosques. In 1947 he knew Hinduism would swallow up his religion just as it swallowed up Bhuddism, so he got up and walked away...made his own country where people would actually know their religion and not confuse it or absorb it with Hinduism. We, on the other hand, stayed with the Hindus and are now paying the price. The Sikhs there know, because they are taught, all about the Hindu religion....all about Hindu festivals....all about Hindu history and culture. They know sweet fanny adams about Sikhism. They only learn about Sikhism when they come to places such as Canada, the UK or Italy etc. None of this is the fault of the muslim in Pakistan.

So its not really suprising they would restore or hand back Gurdware as they are hardly any Sikhs to handback too. I googled it, i found NO accurate figures but on wikipedia it is estimated at about 20,000 Sikhs in a country of over 170, 000,000 so like 0001%. Where as muslims in Punjab are 1.57% and Sikhs in india are 1.9%. So not that much percentage wise in Sikhs in the whole country of India and native Punjabi muslims

Actually the figures are even worse than that given the fact that although 99% of the abandoned Gurdwaras are in the Pakistan province of Punjab something like 90% of Pakistan's Sikh community live in the pathan tribal mountain areas of NWFP. Of the remaining Sikhs, most are actually 'Nanakpanthis'...i.e Hindus in the province of Sindh who refer to themselves as Sikhs. In other words, yes there are Sikhs in Pakistan....but the one thing most of them all have in common is that they can be found in any area but Punjab.