Is Manmohan Singh Clean?

[Only five]

Some of you are so perfect, that all you see is faults in other people.

Leave the personal stuff out or two can play at this game.

Manmohan Singh has arguably done more to improve the lives of India's poor than any other Indian - which we as fellow Sikhs should be proud of.

Why do I say this?

Because he has done enormous amounts to reduce poverty.

Which states has he reduced poverty? Give the link of the report

When India's economy was in crisis in 1991, he was brought in as finance minister and laid the foundation for the strong economic growth that India has seen since then.

That growth takes 30 - 40 million people in India out of poverty each year! Yes, each year!! Which means that India now has a thriving middle class of 400 milloon which did not exist 20 years ago.

Interesting! Where is report your looking at. Present it here.

I am sure our Gurus would have said that helping people to get food, clothing and shelter is as great an objective as any other.

Your points need to be backed up with info, so they can be all lies made up by you.

People's lives (including those of Sikh farmers) are blighted by power shortages. He put an enormous amount of energy into signing the nuclear power deal with the US - that in the next 10-15 years, will transform India's power situation.

Again provide reports

I do agree, that he may not have done enough to fight corruption - but that will take a generational change in India. Corruption is embedded in every aspect of Indian society.

...and yes, farmer suicides are a major issue in India - not just in the Punjab. In fact, the Punjab has a very low rate of farmer suicides. Five states (Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Madhya Pradesh, and Chhattisgarh) account for almost 70% of all farmer suicides in India. Kerala which has a similar population to the Punjab had over 900 farmer suicides in the period 2005-09, compared to 75 in the Punjab.

Where are these stats coming from. I know you made up that 75 farmers in Punjab commit suicide because others have said the rate is significantly higher; in the 4 digits a year.

....and some of you say that he acted in an anti-Sikh fashion, because he told people to move on from the 1984 crisis. He was right.

Yea, you're a person that doesn't care about the Sikhs and cares only about Manmohan. No person in his right mind will tell Sikhs to forget about 1984. It's like telling the jews to forget about what Hitler did to them. Your one pathetic person.

In the UK, we had 40 years of religous strife in Northern Ireland that left thousands dead. The Irish people eventually came together for peace - partly by moving on from what had happened in the past - as did the people of South Africa (after Apartheid) and the people of Rwanda (after the Rwandan genocide). And to see what happens to people who can't move on?? Just look at the state of Kosovo, Bosnia and Serbia in Europe - countries that can't move on from their etnic conflicts in the early 1990s - they are still pariah states.

I know a lawyer that has gone through one of these wars and he will never forget what the rebels did to his country and his family and the religious structures in his country.....his words not mine. Serious your a coward. There is no other way to describe you.

[DashingSingh]

If Manmohan Singh cannot bring justice for Minority that he himself belongs to ,then how can he bring justice for any other.

[hsisingh]

Leave the personal stuff out or two can play at this game.

............................

Serious your a coward. There is no other way to describe you.

Regarding India's economic development and the impact of Manmohan Singh's policies, I would recommend the following sources - which all have plenty of reports which you can download for free:

Asian Development Bank

World Bank (World Development Report)

IMF (Country briefings)

OECD

Planning Commission of India

The reports can be quite big and have long sentences, but they also have nice pictures.

The farmer data was quoted in the following national newspaper article:

http://www.livemint.com/2008/11/11144441/Farmers8217-suicides-in-Ind.html

To deal with rural poverty, Manmohan Singh personally set up the National Rural Employment Guarantee scheme in 2005 to guarantee some employment and a minimum income to every poor, rural household in India. It is the largest social welfare scheme in the World.

Read about its impact here:

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/downloads/FP2P/FP2P_India_Nat_%20Rural_Emp_Gtee_Act_CS_ENGLISH.pdf

Regarding the phrase 'move on', it doesn't mean forget. We must continue to remember and pay tribute to the victims of 1984 - and also seek justice by legal means. It means that don't allow it to poison everything about the role of Sikh's in India. How about female infanticide, drug abuse, bonded labour, environmental degradation?

I would also recommend that you read some books about the Jewish Holocaust in Europe, so that you can get a better comparative view on what happened to the Sikhs in the 1980s and what happened to the Jews in Europe in the 1930s/40s.

[gurdssingh]

Regarding India's economic development and the impact of Manmohan Singh's policies, I would recommend the following sources - which all have plenty of reports which you can download for free:

Asian Development Bank

World Bank (World Development Report)

IMF (Country briefings)

OECD

Planning Commission of India

The reports can be quite big and have long sentences, but they also have nice pictures.

The farmer data was quoted in the following national newspaper article:

http://www.livemint.com/2008/11/11144441/Farmers8217-suicides-in-Ind.html

To deal with rural poverty, Manmohan Singh personally set up the National Rural Employment Guarantee scheme in 2005 to guarantee some employment and a minimum income to every poor, rural household in India. It is the largest social welfare scheme in the World.

Read about its impact here:

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/resources/downloads/FP2P/FP2P_India_Nat_%20Rural_Emp_Gtee_Act_CS_ENGLISH.pdf

Regarding the phrase 'move on', it doesn't mean forget. We must continue to remember and pay tribute to the victims of 1984 - and also seek justice by legal means. It means that don't allow it to poison everything about the role of Sikh's in India. How about female infanticide, drug abuse, bonded labour, environmental degradation?

I would also recommend that you read some books about the Jewish Holocaust in Europe, so that you can get a better comparative view on what happened to the Sikhs in the 1980s and what happened to the Jews in Europe in the 1930s/40s.

I agree.

Big difference in forgetting and moving on. Interesting to note in other threads many oppose india, but are cool woth britain / england.

One example they Wouldnt dream of supporting india in cricket but are happy to support england and even pakistan in wednesdays semi. Just get some facts britian pre independance also committed atrocities and many innocents were affected. Also read up post partition on how sikh minorities in pakistan were harassed and threatened to convert, land seized and treated as second class citizens. But its ok to forgive and forget all those things.

I do know india is guilty of many bad things over past decades. But it was government supporters congress members, who happended to be mostly hindu also some muslims. It was not done in name of their religion, but by the masses incited by politicians.

[Only five]

Regarding India's economic development and the impact of Manmohan Singh's policies, I would recommend the following sources - which all have plenty of reports which you can download for free:

Asian Development Bank

World Bank (World Development Report)

IMF (Country briefings)

OECD

Planning Commission of India

The reports can be quite big and have long sentences, but they also have nice pictures.

Please provide the lines to which your refering too. To all I know they don't exist.

The farmer data was quoted in the following national newspaper article:

http://www.livemint....des-in-Ind.html

This is one source you provide, but have you checked if this source matches up with other sources? Here are couple of links that shows the figures at a substantially higher rate per year and shows the corruption that exist when some present such low numbers.

http://www.ft.com/cm...l#axzz1I1q5gscc

http://www.dnaindia....figures_1154743

http://indiamicrofin...-in-punjab.html

Ask yourself why is there such a huge difference on what reports are saying. Some say only 100 and less are committing suicide in Punjab, but some reports have the figure at 2000 a year This difference could be contributed to what some accept as suicide, but the range would be not off by 1900 suicides. It would be off by max 20. Things are not so black and white when it comes to India giving reports to others.

To deal with rural poverty, Manmohan Singh personally set up the National Rural Employment Guarantee scheme in 2005 to guarantee some employment and a minimum income to every poor, rural household in India. It is the largest social welfare scheme in the World.

Read about its impact here:

http://www.oxfam.org..._CS_ENGLISH.pdf

Provide the relevant parts of the report.

Regarding the phrase 'move on', it doesn't mean forget. We must continue to remember and pay tribute to the victims of 1984 - and also seek justice by legal means. It means that don't allow it to poison everything about the role of Sikh's in India. How about female infanticide, drug abuse, bonded labour, environmental degradation?

I would also recommend that you read some books about the Jewish Holocaust in Europe, so that you can get a better comparative view on what happened to the Sikhs in the 1980s and what happened to the Jews in Europe in the 1930s/40s.

Here is a video where Manmohan compares the Canadian courts to the Indian courts to say that we are trying to prosecute those that took part in the riots. When as the Canadian courts system in recent times not only let mass murders walk freely in society, but be part of government? This has never happened. So to say the Canadian court system is just like the Indian court system in terms of weaknesses is a complete lie on Manmohan's part.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jqiU_zIEG3A

Here is a link to where he says I am a Indian first and then a Sikh. Also here is what he said at a press conference after he was asked a question on the riots of 1984: To a question of 1984 anti-Sikh riots, Singh said at a press conference that it was a "painful episode. But it cannot be kept alive for ever." http://www.indianexp...ever-pm/457517/

They can't be kept alive???? We have Gurbani reminding us of the acts of Babar and his cruelty to the people of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj time. But when a genocide happens against the Sikhs, we can't keep it alive? When a person close relative dies from natural causes they keep their memory alive, but Sikhs can't keep systematic thousands of murders alive? There is no way Manmohan said to keep the remembrance alive because he said we as a Sikh community can't keep it alive forever.

[hsisingh]

Please provide the lines to which your refering too. To all I know they don't exist.

..........................

Manmohan said to keep the remembrance alive because he said we as a Sikh community can't keep it alive forever.

Most of your points don't justify a response, but for the ones that do....

Why are you surprised that the Prime Minister of a country with a secular constitution says he is an Indian first? and he adds religion should not be brought into politics. Given you live in Canada, would you not find it strange if the Canadian Prime Minister said I am a Christian first and then a Canadian?? How would you feel as a Sikh living in Canada?

Why are people like you so fixated on 1984? Don't get me wrong - it was a very dark episode for Sikhs, but if you don't want to forget anything ever, why don't you talk about Partition, Amritsar Massacre, Anglo-Sikh Wars, Indian Mutiny (in which many Sikhs died)? ...or the way in which Sikhs were insulted by the Canadian government in the Komagata Maru incident?

In Britain, every year on Remembrance day the country remembers and pays tribute to the people who gave their lives in two world wars fighting Germany - but today, we are also part of a political and economic union with Germany and even jointly develop defence technology....we don't live in the past, but we don't forget it either.

You need to shed some of your negativity about human nature; don't assume people who may not agree with your beliefs and views always have evil/bad intentions.

[Only five]

Most of your points don't justify a response, but for the ones that do....

It's okay if you don't have answers to my questions. Your learning at your own speed.

Why are you surprised that the Prime Minister of a country with a secular constitution says he is an Indian first? and he adds religion should not be brought into politics. Given you live in Canada, would you not find it strange if the Canadian Prime Minister said I am a Christian first and then a Canadian?? How would you feel as a Sikh living in Canada?

I would never object to the Prime Minister of Canada saying his religion comes first. Remember Canada Charters starts off by recognizing the supremacy of God.

Why are people like you so fixated on 1984? Don't get me wrong - it was a very dark episode for Sikhs, but if you don't want to forget anything ever,

Because people like me recognize when a genocide has taken place against the Sikhs.

why don't you talk about Partition, Amritsar Massacre, Anglo-Sikh Wars, Indian Mutiny (in which many Sikhs died)? ...or the way in which Sikhs were insulted by the Canadian government in the Komagata Maru incident?

Who said we don't talk about them? It is very clear you are trying to take the discussion off topic. This discussion is on Manmohan and whether hes a good man. So stay on topic and if you want to discuss the above then start a new topic.

In Britain, every year on Remembrance day the country remembers and pays tribute to the people who gave their lives in two world wars fighting Germany - but today, we are also part of a political and economic union with Germany and even jointly develop defence technology....we don't live in the past, but we don't forget it either.

Asking for justice of 1984 is not living in the past, but is the present because no justice has been given out. Germany was not the social evil but Hitler who ran it. India is not the social evil but those that run it and say to others they can't keep there brothers and sisters remembered forever. Again stay on topic this is not about India, but the anti-Sikh person that runs it; Manmohan. In our Ardas we remember all those that gave their lives for Sikhi.

You need to shed some of your negativity about human nature; don't assume people who may not agree with your beliefs and views always have evil/bad intentions.

What I have shared with you on Manmohan and 1984 Sikh genocide is not just my view, but this is the view of the wider Sikh population, that have educated themselves on what Manmohan is. Also there is video evidence to what he said, but you sit here completely ignoring what he said and in what context.

If Manmohan can tell the Sikhs they can't keep the genocide of 1984 alive forever, then I wonder what kind of insult he would direct at the jews that lost millions of their religious brothers and sisters. Maybe he'll say to wipe the books of any sense that the jews were killed in the millions.

[Wales85]

I know nothing about India (not indian), but Manmohan Singh is an economic genius. What he did with India's economy in such a short time span is nothing short of miraculous. His other misgivings, I do not know enough to talk about, but this I do. Could be the scum of the earth, I don't know, but he has been very very good for indias economy.

-P

[OhTwadi]

Looking at his positive aspects (which we as Sikhs should always be doing), he is the only one of two folks in Indian political history who have zero corruption charges against them. Also, every single politician respects him. This is highly unprecedented in any country, but in India, that is simply miraculous.

It goes without saying that he is a genius when it comes to dealing with economics of a country battered by many decades of corruption and wrong doing. He is a very down to earth human being as well, which sadly can not be said about a lot of people who frequent this forum.

[Only five]

Here is a video of Manmohan practicing what he wants. These down to earth people also should start practicing this in their home. Has Manmohan spoken up about the recent incident of a Sikhs Dastar being taken off by the police officer?