Brainwashed

[Akal Warrior]

Its not worth arguing over this. It will never end. Agree to disagree

[Only five]

Its not worth arguing over this. It will never end. Agree to disagree

I won't agree to disagree, but if this discussion stops here, then okay, lets stop it here.

[chatanga]

that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the only way to Waheguru and no pakhandi saads matter.

Bhai Gurdas in his Varan says that Gurmat is Gaddi Raah, ie the highway to Waheguru, or the quickest way, but certainly not the only way.

[dalsingh101]

I wonder what some of you make of the repeated use of the word ਅਧਰਮ to describe God in Jaap Sahib?

[Only five]

Bhai Gurdas in his Varan says that Gurmat is Gaddi Raah, ie the highway to Waheguru, or the quickest way, but certainly not the only way.

Does Bhai Gurdas ji add not the only way or is that your own remix (Intrepretation to it) Also share which Varan it is, so everyone else can see.

[Kharkooartsy]

Please...lets just stop it right here. This reply is again a reflection of my ego. I apologize to all you Gursikh brothers and sisters for any mistakes i made. Honestly, i used to have some pretty hardcore views. I used to openly condemn other religions, until someone opened up my eyes and reminded me that i am nothing. I am just full of arrogance, and have no right to judge others. I have no avastha, yet i talk about these deep spiritual things. I try to make myself feel better about myself, by telling myself that I am one of the very few 'lucky ones' who have found the only path to God. I am still full of so much ego...Waheguru forgive me.

ps- saw this on a bumper sticker: "God is too Big to fit into one religion"

veerji the truth is that anyone who does naam japp will become one with vaheguroojee LOVE is the ONLY path to god..doing naam japp with love makes you unite with vaheguroojee..

i dont like people arguing/debating by using gurbani lines because i think gurbani is way too vast..

"god is too big to fit into one religion"- yeh true... thats why in japji sahib guru ji emphasize how one cant describe god because god has no limits just as jaap sahib.. guru ji emphasize that god has no one form, no one color, dress.. yet any form..when u read bani of jaap sahib you realize that one cant really understand god.. we can just experience god.

sikhi is a religion but its not like christanity and islam we dont go around converting people sikhi is love for god.. its true essense is naam japna..falling in love with god...recognizing one god.. not allah god not jesus god not vaheguroo god like some people say...

its recognizing vaheguroojee as allah... and allah as vaheguroojee

understanding that everyone in this world... are just like us but they dont have what we have... that is gurbani. i am not bashing other religions but you can read any religious text but you cant find something as pleasing as gurbani.

saudewala saad is just a horrible person i can say that because he is why so many singhs are in jail he is a political person.. :\

please read these http://www.prisonerw...soners-letters/

listen to this katha...

[Only five]

I wrote this on a different thread and it applies to what we are discussing here (added some more as well).

In my view there was nothing wrong with Udasi, Nirmalas, etc before 1699 and if a person took these paths, they were/are apart of the Sikh Panth. We can go further into history and see all the bhagats that followed Sri Waheguru ji and became jeevan mukt. Today, and after 1699, I believe the order from Sri Waheguru ji was finalized and complete (Saint-soldier, the order existed before, but the world did not realize it. The Gurus had to come down and spread it). If we look at Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj teachinges, they are more related to pulling the yogi the person who left the world to come back and practice true dharma in the world (Sant side of Gurmat). Then we have Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj, who took the Sant and the savage swordmen and transformed them into soldiers of true dharma (Gurmat). In this day and age a person that is aware of the Khalsa teaching, he must follow this final form. Whether that be Udasi, Nirmalas, a Hindu, a Muslim, a Christian, whatever they want to call themselves.

Satguru didn't exclude anyone from his teachinges and Guru Sahib applied Gurbani to every human being on this world to follow. Those that don't even know what the Khalsa is, for them its a different story. The Nirmalas, the Udasi and all these other people that are aware of the Khalsa teachinges and don't let go of their ways (ego) are fooling themselves to think that they are higher than the order of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and they can do whatever they want. Let's not kid ourselves and say Shabad Guru, Gurbani is just for the Sikhs. Shabad Guru doesn't have a certain personal limit, but it has a discipline attached to it, which was given to us from Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj. In my view Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj and Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj took two extreme paths, that lead nowhere close to Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj (yogi and savage swordmen) which people of the old age were following and combined them as one to every man and woman to follow (no one is left out from Sikhi. It is for every human being to follow, no one is above Gurmat). These division only get created when the ego comes out in the person and they want to follow a certain person from the past, where they claim to be Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jew, etc. Nothing wrong with taking their teachings (the ones that are according to Gurmat), but the final order came from Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj, who took Amrit himself and his teachinges are supreme than any other bhagat, Udasi, or Sant, or Prophet or holy man etc, etc, that became jeevan mukt. In my view, thats what everyone must follow in todays day and age. And if Satguru comes down again to bless us with more teachinges then, we should accept them and not say I'm the Sikh of this path so i don't have to follow this teaching of Sri Waheguru ji. This is all ego and can never be love.

There is no other path than Sikhi to Sri Waheguru ji, but in SIkhi there are different ways to get to the same destination, depending on how much Sri Waheguru ji reveals to you and if he reveals the whole Khalsa Panth and you refuse to follow it then consider your soul lost.

Here is an example: Take a person that doesn't know how to read and write. Whatever the person learns about Gurmat is through others and the person has complete faith and love(dedication in action, not just by speech) for Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj. Then you have the educated person, he studies other religions and studied Sikhi, but follows the foolish mind, where he picks and chooses what he wants to follow (much of the world is like this and this is why you get people saying i'm a christian, i'm a jew and even now in Sikhi, i'm a mona sikh) he will be surely finished by Akal Purakh. The person that can't read and write will attain sachkhand and the educated person, will fail miserably because his ego got in the way. The reason why this will happen is because Gurmat say a person that dedicates the soul for one second to Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj this soul will earn his reward. He might be illeterate, but he was dedicated to whatever Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj revealed to him. Perfect example of this is Bhagat Dhanna Jatt (he was not illeterate, but he was spiritually blind), his dedication gave him the sight of Akal Purakh.

[Kharkooartsy]

Here is an example: Take a person that doesn't know how to read and write. Whatever the person learns about Gurmat is through others and the person has complete faith and love(dedication in action, not just by speech) for Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj. Then you have the educated person, he studies other religions and studied Sikhi, but follows the foolish mind, where he picks and chooses what he wants to follow (much of the world is like this and this is why you get people saying i'm a christian, i'm a jew and even now in Sikhi, i'm a mona sikh) he will be surely finished by Akal Purakh

sorry i am gona go a little off topic

but we cant assume that all christain muslims are stereotypical arrogant, and think their way is the right way. there are christain monks that are in love with god.. and hardcore muslims that remember god all the time... there is a mona sikh who is a total nitnemi wakes up amritvela does his nitnem compare to me... :\ i look singhni but kam singhniavale nai. we cant generalize.. but sikhi is amazing because it has bani of bhagats from muslim background, hindu background... but they didnt believe in anything different because the truth is vaheguroojee he is ONE. they all recognized that truth... which is why in gurbani bhagat kabeer jis bani is hard to distinguish from guru nanak dev ji and guru nanak dev jis banis hard to distinguish from guru gobind singh jis...the truth is the same for all.. sikhi is a religion that encourages us to recognize that truth.. we get lost in the world that we see.. we start living in something that is made up..and lose our chance to become one with vaheguroojee which is the goal for all human beings regardless of whether they are christain,jewish,hindu or muslim...

goibMd goibMd goibMd sMig nwmdyau mnu lIxw ]

gobi(n)dh gobi(n)dh gobi(n)dh sa(n)g naamadhaeo man leenaa ||

Naam Dayv's mind was absorbed into God, Gobind, Gobind, Gobind.

AwF dwm ko CIpro hoieE lwKIxw ]1] rhwau ]

aadt dhaam ko shheeparo hoeiou laakheenaa ||1|| rehaao ||

The calico-printer, worth half a shell, became worth millions. ||1||Pause||

bunnw qnnw iqAwig kY pRIiq crn kbIrw ]

bunanaa thananaa thiaag kai preeth charan kabeeraa ||

Abandoning weaving and stretching thread, Kabeer enshrined love for the Lord's lotus feet.

nIc kulw jolwhrw BieE gunIX ghIrw ]1]

neech kulaa jolaaharaa bhaeiou guneey geheeraa ||1||

A weaver from a lowly family, he became an ocean of excellence. ||1||

rivdwsu FuvMqw For nIiq iqin iqAwgI mwieAw ]

ravidhaas dtuva(n)thaa dtor neeth thin thiaagee maaeiaa ||

Ravi Daas, who used to carry dead cows every day, renounced the world of Maya.

prgtu hoAw swDsMig hir drsnu pwieAw ]2]

paragatt hoaa saadhhasa(n)g har dharasan paaeiaa ||2||

He became famous in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, and obtained the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan. ||2||

sYnu nweI buqkwrIAw Ehu Gir Gir suinAw ]

sain naaee buthakaareeaa ouhu ghar ghar suniaa ||

Sain, the barber, the village drudge, became famous in each and every house.

ihrdy visAw pwrbRhmu Bgqw mih ginAw ]3]

hiradhae vasiaa paarabreham bhagathaa mehi ganiaa ||3||

The Supreme Lord God dwelled in his heart, and he was counted among the devotees. ||3||

ieh ibiD suin kY jwtro auiT BgqI lwgw ]

eih bidhh sun kai jaattaro out(h) bhagathee laagaa ||

Hearing this, Dhanna the Jaat applied himself to devotional worship.

imly pRqiK gusweIAw DMnw vfBwgw ]4]2]

milae prathakh gusaaeeaa dhha(n)naa vaddabhaagaa ||4||2||

The Lord of the Universe met him personally; Dhanna was so very blessed. ||4||2||

http://www.akj.org/multimedia/NorthCarolina/2010/201010nora004sat.mp3

http://www.akj.org/multimedia/Maryland/2011/201103mard014sat.mp3

[Only five]

sorry i am gona go a little off topic

but we cant assume that all christain muslims are stereotypical arrogant, and think their way is the right way. there are christain monks that are in love with god.. and hardcore muslims that remember god all the time...

I have not assumed, you serious need to re-read what I said because you did not get all of what I said. Christians are arrogant because they don't follow the Satguru same with Muslims. What these people do follow is their religious text. Their religious text are not the Satguru who teaches Gurmat for that reason they can collect some knowledge of God, but they cannot completely commit to their religious text because it's also teaches against Gurmat. Again those that don't know any better and I stress again the story of Bhagat Dhanna Jatt, they will attain Sri Waheguru ji through dedication not through their religious text. Dhanna Jatt did not see the sight of Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj because he worshipped a stone, but because his dedication and love for Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj was there completely. Shabad Guru is not just speaking to Sikhs. People serious need to understand this point. When Shabad Guru says to do a command that is for everyone in this world. Again those that are not aware of the Shabad Guru will be given chances if it's in their karma and if they show complete dedication, then Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj will show his sight to them.

there is a mona sikh who is a total nitnemi wakes up amritvela does his nitnem compare to me... :\

If he does his nitnem then he would be moving forward into Sikh and will start keeping his hair. But if he says, no to kes and Amrit then he is lost in ego and Sri Waheguru ji says in Gurbani that they will lose their life and they are just practicing religious rituals. I'm not trying to be mean, but no one is comparing against you. When we look at who is a Sikh then we look toward Gursiikhs like Sant Baba Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa and then ask ourselves if we are Sikhs. Tell every Sikh regardless if they keep hair uncut or not to ask this question and they will surely get their answer, if they have humility in their mind.

i look singhni but kam singhniavale nai. we cant generalize..

Bhenji please re-read what I said. You have completely missed the whole point of my post.

but sikhi is amazing because it has bani of bhagats from muslim background, hindu background

No Bhagat followed any religious text, they took what was good and disregarded the rest. All of them followed Satguru ji. So they can't be Muslims or Hindus. Inorder to be a Muslim you have to follow the Koran completely and same goes for Hindu, but the religious text is Vedas and the others.

... but they didnt believe in anything different because the truth is vaheguroojee he is ONE. they all recognized that truth... which is why in gurbani bhagat kabeer jis bani is hard to distinguish from guru nanak dev ji and guru nanak dev jis banis hard to distinguish from guru gobind singh jis...the truth is the same for all.. sikhi is a religion that encourages us to recognize that truth.. we get lost in the world that we see.. we start living in something that is made up..and lose our chance to become one with vaheguroojee which is the goal for all human beings regardless of whether they are christain,jewish,hindu or muslim...

I agree with all you said, except the last part about the Christians, jewish, etc because you can't place the Bible equal to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj or any other religious text.

goibMd goibMd goibMd sMig nwmdyau mnu lIxw ]

gobi(n)dh gobi(n)dh gobi(n)dh sa(n)g naamadhaeo man leenaa ||

Naam Dayv's mind was absorbed into God, Gobind, Gobind, Gobind.

AwF dwm ko CIpro hoieE lwKIxw ]1] rhwau ]

aadt dhaam ko shheeparo hoeiou laakheenaa ||1|| rehaao ||

The calico-printer, worth half a shell, became worth millions. ||1||Pause||

bunnw qnnw iqAwig kY pRIiq crn kbIrw ]

bunanaa thananaa thiaag kai preeth charan kabeeraa ||

Abandoning weaving and stretching thread, Kabeer enshrined love for the Lord's lotus feet.

nIc kulw jolwhrw BieE gunIX ghIrw ]1]

neech kulaa jolaaharaa bhaeiou guneey geheeraa ||1||

A weaver from a lowly family, he became an ocean of excellence. ||1||

rivdwsu FuvMqw For nIiq iqin iqAwgI mwieAw ]

ravidhaas dtuva(n)thaa dtor neeth thin thiaagee maaeiaa ||

Ravi Daas, who used to carry dead cows every day, renounced the world of Maya.

prgtu hoAw swDsMig hir drsnu pwieAw ]2]

paragatt hoaa saadhhasa(n)g har dharasan paaeiaa ||2||

He became famous in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, and obtained the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan. ||2||

sYnu nweI buqkwrIAw Ehu Gir Gir suinAw ]

sain naaee buthakaareeaa ouhu ghar ghar suniaa ||

Sain, the barber, the village drudge, became famous in each and every house.

ihrdy visAw pwrbRhmu Bgqw mih ginAw ]3]

hiradhae vasiaa paarabreham bhagathaa mehi ganiaa ||3||

The Supreme Lord God dwelled in his heart, and he was counted among the devotees. ||3||

ieh ibiD suin kY jwtro auiT BgqI lwgw ]

eih bidhh sun kai jaattaro out(h) bhagathee laagaa ||

Hearing this, Dhanna the Jaat applied himself to devotional worship.

imly pRqiK gusweIAw DMnw vfBwgw ]4]2]

milae prathakh gusaaeeaa dhha(n)naa vaddabhaagaa ||4||2||

The Lord of the Universe met him personally; Dhanna was so very blessed. ||4||2||

http://www.akj.org/m...0nora004sat.mp3

http://www.akj.org/m...3mard014sat.mp3

Read Sri Anand Sahib da paat and pay close attention to the lines that say without the True Guru the Lord is not found, go and ask the wise one about this.

jy ko gur qy vymuKu hovY ibnu siqgur mukiq n pwvY ] (920-1, rwmklI, mÚ 3)

jay ko gur tay vaimukh hovai bin satgur mukat na paavai.

One who turns away from the Guru, and becomes baymukh - without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation.

pwvY mukiq n hor QY koeI puChu ibbykIAw jwey ] (920-2, rwmklI, mÚ 3)

paavai mukat na hor thai ko-ee puchhahu bibaykee-aa jaa-ay.

He shall not find liberation anywhere else either; go and ask the wise ones about this.

Anyk jUnI Brim AwvY ivxu siqgur mukiq n pwey ] (920-2, rwmklI, mÚ 3)

anayk joonee bharam aavai vin satgur mukat na paa-ay.

He shall wander through countless incarnations; without the True Guru, he shall not find liberation.

iPir mukiq pwey lwig crxI siqgurU sbdu suxwey ] (920-3, rwmklI, mÚ 3)

fir mukat paa-ay laag charnee satguroo sabad sunaa-ay.

But liberation is attained, when one is attached to the feet of the True Guru, chanting the Word of the Shabad. Ang 920

This is why the Bhagats Bani is included in Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj and why they also became jivan mukt. They attached themselves not to religious text like the Koran or Bible or Vedas, but because they attached themselves to the Gurus Shabad.

[Kharkooartsy]

I have not assumed, you serious need to re-read what I said because you did not get all of what I said. Christians are arrogant because they don't follow the Satguru same with Muslims. What these people do follow is their religious text. Their religious text are not the Satguru who teaches Gurmat for that reason they can collect some knowledge of God, but they cannot completely commit to their religious text because it's also teaches against Gurmat. Again those that don't know any better and I stress again the story of Bhagat Dhanna Jatt, they will attain Sri Waheguru ji through dedication not through their religious text. Dhanna Jatt did not see the sight of Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj because he worshipped a stone, but because his dedication and love for Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj was there completely. Shabad Guru is not just speaking to Sikhs. People serious need to understand this point. When Shabad Guru says to do a command that is for everyone in this world. Again those that are not aware of the Shabad Guru will be given chances if it's in their karma and if they show complete dedication, then Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj will show his sight to them.

yh i agree with what you said but what i was trying to say is that we cant say that someone who has no clue about sikhi cant attain vaheguroojee because anyone can japp naam and guru ji can show anyone the truth.. guru granth sahib ji the truth because thats what all the bhagats and guru jis practiced..

i guess i agree with you.. but if a muslim loves god because of quranic verses than he is better than those born into sikhi but love gurus word.. i dont know actually..

but i know that guru granth sahib ji is universal and god is one for all human beings he himself can show people what true love is, not saying i know gurmat or i am in true love with vaheguroojee because i am too much into maya to be that..