Provocation

[Hazoor 29]

On the flip side what if you were seen, and police/law got involved? Yes on a level it's courageous to stand up to people like this, but looking at the western world today, where does the law of the land come into it all?

I am not for or against what happened, I just wish to point out how differently things could have played out.  I ask this not just because of this incident but often we refer to our courageous ancestors, events that took place and how we should learn from their example, but shouldn't we respect the law of the land too?  

I would like to reiterate, I am not making statements for or against, but have a genuine question. 

[VanHelsingh 1,984]

A few years ago I would've censured Singh for laying the smack down. I too would've referred to the law of the land, restraint, blah, blah, etc.

The police don't give a jot about anyone. They offer their commiserations after someone has been knifed-up, but never turn up whilst the the shanking is taking place. They talk a good game but its all hollow words. Apart from that, there's the street-level issue. If these two white fellas tell their friends that Singh went mental and battered the dirt out of them, this info might spread around their mates who'll think twice before opening their racist mouths again. It can only benefit, for example, a Singh who isn't capable of defending himself from an attack (or verbal abuse) by people like this.

Whilst I firmly believe we shouldn't go around looking for trouble, when trouble comes looking for us, we have no choice but to do something.

[Guest Lo down]

Sounds like you need to apologise to this poor man for over use of force . Yep defend yoself but i think you agree u gone too far . guru gobind singh destroyed the all mughal empire with a letter . If you used your intelligent 1st you could spare yoself tis grief. Say sorry n move on out

[Guest GuptSingh]

Cant an individual walk in this world without being racially harassed? Why should I apologise? If his ignorance hadn’t blighted his views then he would have a realised I wasn’t Muslim, I was a Sikh, British Born. I have just as much right as he has to be in this country. In fact my job, serves this country week in week out, what I have I done wrong? Just because I look different I have to be marginalized by society?

I apologise for my reaction, yes it wasn’t a true gursikh response but I will never apologise to both of them guy’s faces. Why suggest that? That’s sounds ridiculous.

I’m not a professional fighter but am taking classes in martial arts to further progress my bodybuilding ambitions.

I understand people saying its good for singhs to react but Khalsa Jee, had you have seen this reaction you wudnt have justified it. This is the reason I’m feeling upset about it.

[Guest lapsjh]

'guru gobind singh destroyed the all mughal empire with a letter'

That's beautiful.

Yes there is a reason Guru Ji said when all other means fail it is rightful to wield the sword. Now all other means had certainly not failed and the thing is that the guy wasn't beating the sh**t out of you really didn't fall under the catergory Guru Ji was talking about. Ji my family gives me grief like that guy gave you and I have to retrain my anger and ego every single day. You know why? Because there are 5 thieves that we are asked to keep under control by Gurbani and reacting in violence or anger would not only letting them run rampant, it would be bowing down and worshipping them.

Acting upon gurbani is our devotional worship to the lord, acting upon the 5 thieves and maya is devotional worship to maya.

The Gurus two beautiful babies where bricked alive. And the Guru reacted by sending the emporer a letter stating the Truth. He knew it was hukam(every single thing that happens to us is His hukam), he honoured the hukam, but he uttered truth to the emporer becuase speaking Truth is glorifying God- reacting in Maya is glorifying maya(5 thieves).

Take it as a lesson, next time calm your heart and speak Truth to one who attacks you verbally, remember it is your karma and God testing you, God giving you an oppertunity to rise above your 5 thieves.

[SarabhaPanjab 242]

lol.. i hear this literally EVERYDAY!!! it makes me laugh how belittle we make our Guru Sahibs.

If all other means fails, it is righteous to raise the sword.

Would Sache Patasha, dhan Sri Guru Gobind singh ji maharaj unleash the sacred sri sahib and not come back with blood???

When all other means fail, it is righteous to Kill!!!!

STOPPPPPPP using this Gurbani in silly tiny day to day rubbish scenarios!!!

u see a kid at school get in a push-shove and dopey singhs tell him off and say it was wrong, maharaaj said only fight when its the last resort!! LOL

Seriously, these submissive wanna be buddhists have belittled and misquoted our Gurbani. Cherry pick and choose those quotes and scenarios to make our kids into a bunch of whimps.

Respect Gurbani!!! - Quote properly, give a balanced view, Do not pick just one Sakhis to justify one way or another. Yes Maharaaj took down the empire with a pen, but also killed and trained singhs to kill.

Also why do our dopey parchaaraks even say we should follow the actions of Guru Sahibs? Guru Sahib stopped huge rocks, Maharaaj allowed their whole family to become Shaheed - if we want to start copying our Guru sahibs then copy everything. Otherwise just follow Gurbani and Maharaajs hukkamanas. That's what Maharaaj gave to the Sikhs to follow.

Who the hell are we? Guru Sahib were nirankaar themselves.

[Guest You what you]

Sarab P why have you not bothered to put any examples from sikh history of where sikhs have reacted violently first with no other effort ? Probably because you won't find any wake an smell what you shovellin

[KhalistaniGunMan 291]

I agree 100% with Sarabha Veerji...these pluto sikhs are trying to tie our hands behind our backs...If you want to see what guru sahib says about jung..then read sri dasam granth..because from some of your comments i presume you havent....you dont have one bit of bir raas in you..you know how i know..because ive met your type before...and ive also seen your type get harrased..bullied...humiliated...beaten up...and at the end of all this you still wont stand up for yourself...FIX UP...when you wear the crown of dasmesh pita on your head...your representing your shaheed ancestors..soo dont you dare get bullied, harrased, humiliated or beaten up..because if you do and you dont do anyting about it..then your giving all those shaheeds a slap on the face...SHAME ON YOU!

[KhalistaniGunMan 291]

Sarab P why have you not bothered to put any examples from sikh history of where sikhs have reacted violently first with no other effort ? Probably because you won't find any wake an smell what you shovellin

He never said react violently first...clearly this singh has been racially discriminated against on numerous occasions...he did not reeact first..he ignored..but then when the abuse started to continue then he sorted the fool out....and i can give you many occasions where dushts where given a few warnings before they were dispatched to the next world without their heads...veerji have you ever read chandi di vaar regularly..start doing five a day...and then you will see where im coming from

[buddasingh 210]

HOUSTON we have a problem!

With the exception of a few brave warriors here who understand, it is alarming what the majority of young Sikh males think about this incident!

I just finished speaking in another thread how every Sikh should be ready to fight physically. I have been in my share of street fights and numerous near fights…in so many cases; standing my ground fearlessly and CALMLY, dispelled the situation. I have a healthy itching urge to see if my martial arts play is still relevant; but I know not to act on that urge for my ego.

This example is sad! The response here as “sikhs” is sadder! Were we all raised by gorillas? Are we village goondas that we can’t recognize true courage? That is not an example of Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s sikhi whatsoever!!

Kudos to the poster for at least feeling bad and knowing what he did was sadistic. He’s feeling bad because he was the one in the best position to know he did something wrong. A few things wrong actually. From his description, he seems to be almost out of character, the steroids possibly altered his thinking to increase aggression. Regardless he describes himself as out of control, simply not acceptable. No respectable martial art teaches one to hurt someone beyond what is necessary. If a person is head-stomping someone it should be a life or death situation. Otherwise a person needs to check themselves in to rehab or jail or both. That would in most cases be criminal assault at a minimum.

It’s interesting the poster’s title is provocation. Maybe the guilt is also associated with a concern for an active police investigation as the victims could be brain injured or worse. The law does generally make sense in that a response to a provocation should be measured and not over the top.

I’ve also been on the receiving end of racism on the street and a Sikh stands up to the racism and in the heat of the moment is prepared to fight. However a saint soldier never dehumanizes an enemy…that is not a Sikh way to fight. The person may be a racist in that moment, but it is a person that needs our assistance, perhaps after getting a beating, ONLY if necessary and to the extent necessary, but still needs our assistance.

Even in the requirement to kill as a last resort, there was respect and love in gold-tipped arrows. Contemplate the enemy on the ground and head stomping v. Bhai Khanaiya’s approach. We call ourselves a warrior kaum, yet fail to distinguish goonda testosterone from Sikh courage!

[Guest Law breaker]

You lot are well from pluto for living in some wild west place i bet you read too much bir ras and not enough gurbani are you seriously telling the little kids that read this forum to beat people to a pulp rather than call the police ?x yep owe should be able to defend fourselves but the impressing i m gettn on reading these comments is to fight first an consekence after what is this y we have police for . For this of course ? Anyone feel they got abuse call police goodiately . If they can't get there in time talk to the persons to calm situation if allk else fails u under law can protect you r self with force. But in this case it ova killed1 you might have killed that man then you be in jail . Great way to waste you life. No good for sikhi in there

[Hazoor 29]

Totally agree with the last two posters.

I don't know what the age range of people posting on this site is, but having read posts/views for the best part of six months, it's interesting to see how often it's opinions that take centre stage rather than Sikhi and at times even simple logic.

Something else to bear in mind for those who have said this person who took a beating will think twice before doing the same, what if it goes the opposite way and he attacks any Sikh he comes across, not every Sikh is physically like the original poster (steroids or not), what if he and his friends attack in groups, then the beating won't have achieved anything.

[Guest wkietw]

No we have it all wrong here people.

Gurbani states to control the 5 thieves through bandgi, naam simran and gyan.

Physical self defence is not needed for verbal abuse. The weilding the swrod as a last resort means just that, i.e not to knock someones face in for a comment. Husbands and wives beat the living shite out of each other for more than that. Is that right? We are tested in many ways, the Zafarnama is an example that was set to us by a Guru. We speak the truth, and as a last resort we can weild the sword, if the cicumstances call for it. Verbal abuse does not call for it or why would the Gurbani ask us to supress the 5 thieves, if we reacted in violence to verbal abuse, there would be no need to supress anger. Satnam Ji

[Guest Confuz]

This guy came in the local paper he was a gora and the police man pushed him over at the protest then he died . The cop might be doom for manslaughtr is that just waheguru will like if you hit someone they died or will it goes as hukam anyways so you should just fight first

[Guest guptsingh]

OMG, people are taking the gora’s side over me? You actually want to help the gora? This is absurd & ridiculous; you honestly have to be kidding me. Are some of you singhs for real?

Your saying im out of control and my brain isn’t function adequately? Have you seen my day job? That would answer your query about being outta control.

I could give a great argument back but why bother? When your own brothers attack you, why go to them for advice. This is a sad state of affairs.

I’ll tell you one thing, I stood my ground, I made my mark, but when your in the same position as me then make a judgement? Step into my shoes that day, and tell me if you would have walked away. Imagine you were with a loved one that day, your child, parents, siblings, wife etc and they were abused would you stand their and let it happen? My only regret is the amount of punishment I gave not my cause for reaction.