Provocation

[SunSingh]

I've been slandered to the ground while on the bhagti path.

The thing is, when we begin bhagti and saying His name, we are becoming just like Him/ attaining his virtues. Those who are far from the Truth, ie. those who do not control their 5 theives(which keep us from the Truth) sense the light we are emitting(in a worldly sense, as really, the Truth/God lives in no image, light is just a visual symbol of Truth realisation) and it irritates them. Hence the reason our Gurus and bhagats were targeted so severely by those who were engrossed in kalyug.

The higher one goes in bhagti, the more controversial the tests. If one really wants to be on this path they should be able to withstand anything(Gurus accepted matyrdom knowing God's will is perfect no matter how it may seem, its, its all to bring a balance- none of the imagery is real).

What I have learned is that reacting in maya (5 thieves including anger) sends us deeper into the <banned word filter activated> of maya and kalyug while reaacting according to gurbani takes us further into Truth as we realise there is actually no ego to react.

We do not become what the slanderer calls us and are not better than what the slanderer says we are because the reality is that we are NOTHING- no image, no form, we are just like HIM, nothing, lowest of the low(most humble) and All loving- we just all have a really tough time accepting this fact(ego).

If the Gurus could accept this, why should we not follow suit(they taught by word and example).

Satnam Ji

100% spot on

[Guest GuptMember]

Well Done Singh im proud of you!! ..Puraatan Singhs had a reputation of not taking no bullsh*t...we should provide warnings or ignore a dusht a couple times..if they persist....they should get dealt with..a few slaps here and there most likely will wake the fool up..dont feel down brother..if i was there i would of gave you a great big hug...Singhs need to return back to their martial heritage....theres a reason why the british called us devils in battle..we were ferocious

Violence is the last and only last measure a sikh should take. You bring up purataan singhs, what about the story of when Datu kicked Guru Amardas, and instead retaliating Guru Amardas asked him if his foot was okay. That is sikhi my friend. I understand we also have a kirpan, but that is when all other means of readressing wrongs have been extinguished.

There is another sakhi involving Guru Amardas. There was this one murakh who would come to Guru Amardas Ji's dwelling and yell out Amaro!!! and disrespect him with other words. The sikhs got mad, but Guru sahib said give the man whatever he wanted. This went on for a while, and the sikh's became angry that their Guru Sahib was being disrespected. Guru Sahib told them, you cannot cure someone who is sick in the mind by kicking and yelling at them. This is the same case here, these individuals have a sickness of the mind, you cannot cure it by hitting them and swearing at them. Do ardass to Guru sahib that their bhalla hojavaye. We are to only use violence as a last resort.

[SarabhaPanjab]

Violence is the last and only last measure a sikh should take. You bring up purataan singhs, what about the story of when Datu kicked Guru Amardas, and instead retaliating Guru Amardas asked him if his foot was okay. That is sikhi my friend. I understand we also have a kirpan, but that is when all other means of readressing wrongs have been extinguished.

There is another sakhi involving Guru Amardas. There was this one murakh who would come to Guru Amardas Ji's dwelling and yell out Amaro!!! and disrespect him with other words. The sikhs got mad, but Guru sahib said give the man whatever he wanted. This went on for a while, and the sikh's became angry that their Guru Sahib was being disrespected. Guru Sahib told them, you cannot cure someone who is sick in the mind by kicking and yelling at them. This is the same case here, these individuals have a sickness of the mind, you cannot cure it by hitting them and swearing at them. Do ardass to Guru sahib that their bhalla hojavaye. We are to only use violence as a last resort.

I'm just wondering where and why are we supposed to copy Guru Saihbaans? I mean they already told the Khalsa whats expected of them, through Bani and Rehtnamas. Guru Maharaaj was Nirankaar themselves, who made the dead alive, who allowed their parivaar to become shaheeds, who burnt massands alive, who stop huge rocks with one hand, who turned kabbah around. If we are supposed to copy them, why arnt we trying to copying everything?

Also violence as a last resort: whats the last resort? I'm just curious.

If so what level of violence? when would you go for the kill? at what stage?

[Guest Single Handed]

I'm just wondering where and why are we supposed to copy Guru Saihbaans? I mean they already told the Khalsa whats expected of them, through Bani and Rehtnamas. Guru Maharaaj was Nirankaar themselves, who made the dead alive, who allowed their parivaar to become shaheeds, who burnt massands alive, who stop huge rocks with one hand, who turned kabbah around. If we are supposed to copy them, why arnt we trying to copying everything?

Also violence as a last resort: whats the last resort? I'm just curious.

If so what level of violence? when would you go for the kill? at what stage?

As a sidenote, Guru ji did not burn the masands alive, this was made up to discredit Guru Ji.

[Guest reversing]

I'm just wondering where and why are we supposed to copy Guru Saihbaans? I mean they already told the Khalsa whats expected of them, through Bani and Rehtnamas. Guru Maharaaj was Nirankaar themselves, who made the dead alive, who allowed their parivaar to become shaheeds, who burnt massands alive, who stop huge rocks with one hand, who turned kabbah around. If we are supposed to copy them, why arnt we trying to copying everything?

Also violence as a last resort: whats the last resort? I'm just curious.

If so what level of violence? when would you go for the kill? at what stage?

^^

Lol are you serious? That is an incredibly weak argument.

We copy the examples they set out for us Ji e.g pure living and living as a householder while detached, fighting 5 theives, being loving and serving. Guru means teacher, and they did also teach by example, they were not just Gurus, THEY WERE GURBANI IN PRACTICE.

So please cut out the excuses and silly examples, noone expects you to stop rocks with your hands etc, just live the pure, gurmat lifestle they practiced.

[SarabhaPanjab]

^^

Lol are you serious? That is an incredibly weak argument.

We copy the examples they set out for us Ji e.g pure living and living as a householder while detached, fighting 5 theives, being loving and serving. Guru means teacher, and they did also teach by example, they were not just Gurus, THEY WERE GURBANI IN PRACTICE.

So please cut out the excuses and silly examples, noone expects you to stop rocks with your hands etc, just live the pure, gurmat lifestle they practiced.

I am serious. What are we supposed to follow? Rehntamae or actions of our Gurus? I've seen some people (sindhis for example) who refuse to follow banis of Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaaj, only Follow Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaaj. Hence they refuse to wear a kirpan, take armit, bana, because they feel Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaaj didnt preach this.

Rehntnamas says to fight back against julam, some of our Guru Sahibans did, others sat on thatiyan taviyan instead. So what do we follow? Our rehntnamas say we should have Singh and Kaur, our 9 Guru Sahibaans didnt.

So to have consistency in Parchar what should we preach as the example Sikhs today should follow? Don't you think its very confusing for young people to say what exactly is expected of them with a billion different saakhis shown as examples that contradict each other?

When Parchaaraks sit there and say Dhan Baba Deep Singh Ji Shaheed did X amount of sukhmani sahibs everyday,how many are you doing?? but never mention Baba Deep singh was a trained Nihang singh warrior as well, living the complete balance of miri piri?

I'm taking from my own experience growing up, confused what was right... the saakhis your bombarded with, the jeevan saakhis of sants- but rarely was the rehntnames of Guru Gobind singh ji maharaaj discussed, no where was birr rass banis explained, never was the ying/yang miri piri concept explained.

so my question stands, when doing parcharar, what should be the example we ought to follow? Guru Sahibaan's? or Reht?

And again, please ans the question on violence,- whats the last resort, and what level of violence is allowed, with an example.