Views On The Kosher/ Halal Ban

[Paneer Monster]

What do you suppose I do...? How am I responsible for people I've have never met, people I have nothing in common with except the label 'Muslim'?

typical. many islamic scholars have described the "ummah" or "global community of muslims" as a human body, and i have heard many scholars from various different areas of islamic study say "when muslims are hurting in kashmir / usa / iraq / afghanistan (bla bla etc) a part of every muslim body hurts"...

now when it suits you, the term "muslim" is nothing more but a label. it seems you want to have your (halal) cake and eat it.

if all muslims hurt together as 1 and if all the ummah is 1 body, then yes you do take responsibility for your entire ummah.

if you disagree that the ummah is not one body, then gather a group of muslims who share this belief and propagate this belief that challanges the belief of mainstreme muslims.

[ohifwinterends]

typical. many islamic scholars have described the "ummah" or "global community of muslims" as a human body, and i have heard many scholars from various different areas of islamic study say "when muslims are hurting in kashmir / usa / iraq / afghanistan (bla bla etc) a part of every muslim body hurts"...

now when it suits you, the term "muslim" is nothing more but a label. it seems you want to have your (halal) cake and eat it.

if all muslims hurt together as 1 and if all the ummah is 1 body, then yes you do take responsibility for your entire ummah.

if you disagree that the ummah is not one body, then gather a group of muslims who share this belief and propagate this belief that challanges the belief of mainstreme muslims.

Yes, I do agree with the concept of a global ummah, but let's face it, there is no such thing in reality. Maybe there was when there was an actual caliphate, but not now. If governments of countries with Muslim majority populations actually thought this way, there would be so many less problems in the Islamic world, but it is not so. There are so many different Islamic countries. People identify themselves as Iraqi, Pakistani, Bosnian, but not Muslim first. It's sad to see that many people see being Muslim as just an extension of a nationality. A kind of "I'm Pakistani, therefore I'm Muslim" or "I'm Muslim because I'm Pakistani" thing.

They don't. I never said the ummah is one. If I said that, I would be denying reality.

Here's something I think you should think about. I always hear from people that Muslims are not speaking out enough against atrocities in the public. Muslims are doing so, but with the teachings inside of the mosque, not in the public necessarily. I think it is much more important to teach the next Muslim generation what is right and wrong than to just put on a show for the media, don't you agree? And when Muslims do speak out, they rarely get any press because that is not what the people want to see on the news. Negative news sells much better.

[proactive]

It's more to do with the hypocrisy which is inherent in Islam that is the problem. You complain about Halal being banned but your religion denies the right to worship for non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia. Do you know that if someone is carrying a Bible or any other non-Muslim scripture it can seized by the authorities and destroyed and the person prosecuted. If there was a rumour about someone burning the Quran, Muslims would riot but they say nothing about the discrimination that is taught by the Quran. There is plenty of propaganda online from Muslims that claim that the western troops are raping thousands of Muslim women in Iraq and Afghanistan, yet your religion teaches that should Muslims capture non-Muslim women during a war then these women can be raped! Muslims shout from the rooftops if a non-Muslim converts yet if a Muslim converts out of Islam then you religion teaches that he or she should be forced to reconvert and upon refusal be killed! How's that for hypocrisy!

And spare us the excuse that the media is responsible for not giving publicity to Muslims who are against the deeds of Islamic terrorists. The media bends over backwards to accommodate Muslims. After 7/7 the first thing the media did was to place some Imam on the TV who did his usual propaganda piece about Islam being a religion of peace! The only recent event where Muslims have opposed their own extremists was in Luton a few years ago when some members of a Mosque chased away the Islam4Uk, Muslims against Crusaders idiots. But upon further investigation it was found that the mosque website had placed hadiths online which included the infamous one about judgement day not coming until the Muslims fight the Jews and even the stones say to the Muslims 'come there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!' Hardly moderates these people!

[AnakinSkywalker]

I hope they do ban the halal method of killing animals. Let the animals receive a Jhatka first and then the Mohammedans can then perform their ritual.

'Compassion in World Farming' and the RSPCA both agree that Halal method is cruel.

http://www.ciwf.org...._slaughter.aspx

In 2003, the Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC), an independent advisory group, concluded that the way halal and kosher meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals and should be banned immediately. FAWC argued that cattle required up to two minutes to bleed to death when such means are employed. The Chairperson of FAWC at the time, Judy MacArthur Clark, added, "this is a major incision into the animal and to say that it doesn't suffer is quite ridiculous."

In April 2008, the Food and Farming minister in the UK, Lord Rooker, stated that halal and kosher meat should be labeled when it is put on sale, so that members of the public can decide whether or not they want to buy food from animals that have been bled to death. He was quoted as saying, "I object to the method of slaughter ... my choice as a customer is that I would want to buy meat that has been looked after, and slaughtered in the most humane way possible." The RSPCA supported Lord Rooker's views."

British Veterinary Association state that the Halal process is more inhumane than conventional stunned slaughter.

There have been many scientific reports that support this view whilst there have been some reports (funded by Mohammedans) that are against the banning of Halal meat.

The following list show's that only McDonalds, Burger King, and Wimpey serve food that is halal-free.

[Paneer Monster]

Yes, I do agree with the concept of a global ummah, but let's face it, there is no such thing in reality. Maybe there was when there was an actual caliphate, but not now. If governments of countries with Muslim majority populations actually thought this way, there would be so many less problems in the Islamic world, but it is not so. There are so many different Islamic countries. People identify themselves as Iraqi, Pakistani, Bosnian, but not Muslim first. It's sad to see that many people see being Muslim as just an extension of a nationality. A kind of "I'm Pakistani, therefore I'm Muslim" or "I'm Muslim because I'm Pakistani" thing.

They don't. I never said the ummah is one. If I said that, I would be denying reality.

Here's something I think you should think about. I always hear from people that Muslims are not speaking out enough against atrocities in the public. Muslims are doing so, but with the teachings inside of the mosque, not in the public necessarily. I think it is much more important to teach the next Muslim generation what is right and wrong than to just put on a show for the media, don't you agree? And when Muslims do speak out, they rarely get any press because that is not what the people want to see on the news. Negative news sells much better.

re: muslims "right" to halal vs others "rights" in saudi.

Proactive made a good point "You complain about Halal being banned but your religion denies the right to worship for non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia. Do you know that if someone is carrying a Bible or any other non-Muslim scripture it can seized by the authorities and destroyed and the person prosecuted"

It is illegal to have a Gurdwara Sahib in saudi.

re: muslims and identity : nationality / religion

interesting you believe in a global ummah on this basis you should take responsibility for your ummah. im glad you brought up the subject of muslims puting nationality before religion. An islambic colleague once told me that muslim scholars have equated muslims who hold their nationality dearer then their religion is the equivilent of having sex with their mothers in the shade of the kabbah. (i am not taking the mick here, a muslim co-worker seriously told me this, and said that the 2 acts are equal).... have you heard of this before?

re : muslims and negative news - horse ****!

dont try it! Sikhs are the most distinctive faith community in the UK yet we have suffered years and years of negative news reports. see my topic http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/47988-bbc-bias-against-sikhs-and-selective-use-of-the-term-asian/

when muslims do all their sex crimes, rapes, damage to public property, peadophilic acts, terrorism etc etc the main media reports continously dub the criminals as "asians" and not muslims. thsi is not the case when people of a sikh background commit crimes.

further, there have been many pro-islamic documentaries on tv favoring islamic view points.

you even have a term "islamophobia" which resulted in umteen amounts of british tax payers money funding the promotion of islamb in the uk (even tho the Sikhs have a more distinctive identity then muslims and are therefore more likely to suffer racial abuse on the streets).

dispite all this, some muslims continue criminal activity (often in the name of islam) and when this is brought to the publics attention you all immediatly cry "this is negative reporting on our community".... pathetic. its about time people liek you stopped crying and started taking some responsibility for the issues in your community. every community suffers negative news some more then others. muslims have actually had an easy ride considering the ratio of crimes commited by the islamic community in comparison to others. ask your self, how much news has there been in the last 10 years regarding christians / cathelocs and child abuse?

much of the time in the uk islamic criminals are termed as "asians"... does this not favor muslims?