Mergers So That Only 1 Gurdwara Per Local Area?

[UKLondonSikh]

So come on fellow soldiers ... how do we achieve our aims in reality ... and what do you think is a realistic timeframe for getting to that day of true SatSangat? Can the youth flood Gurdwara's memberships given the rules and restrictions in place or are local petitions and referendums more realistically achievable? Your ideas are welcome as this issue really hurts all sincere Sikhs and makes me very ashamed of our community. How can we spread Sikhi when this cancer within our community is plain for all to see? It's 2012 and at the matrimonial stage this baqwaas becomes relevant!? No wonder the enemies of the Panth saw an easy opening to splinter away the Ravidassia ancestry brothers and sisters among us after Vienna, despite the fact genetics proves we are part of a united+genetically related human family.

[chatanga]

youths are too weak, these days to get involved with gurdwara prabandh, in fact their attitude towards this sewa, is why we are in this mess today.

[Sherdil]

youths are too weak, these days to get involved with gurdwara prabandh, in fact their attitude towards this sewa, is why we are in this mess today.

Point well taken, but I don't think the uncle ji's would be totally receptive to youth wanting more say in Gurdwara management. I think the uncle ji's have to go, and make room for fresh blood raised in the West. No disrespect to the uncle ji's, but we need change.

[chatanga]

but I don't think the uncle ji's would be totally receptive to youth wanting more say in Gurdwara management. I think the uncle ji's have to go, and make room for fresh blood raised in the West.

Bro, why wait for them to go? Why should that stop you acting? The elder generation do not understand the younger generation, so you can take a 2pronged attack, by reasoning with them and also joiing the committees at the same time. If there were 10 of you committed to sewa at gurdwara, then the next time a committee is to be made, you ALL give your names in, and even if half of you get selected, then thats great, if none get selected then you should brung the issue before the sangat.

Also try talking to the elders, and asking them not to join the committee this time, as there is important work to be done.

FIGHT YOUR CORNER!!!

You have to the same right to be in the committee as anyone.

[Mat Pulo Rai]

Often to get picked for committees you have to be in with some uncle already in the committee, which means they know where you stand, or will try to see if your pro there agenda or not. As for people out side the membership its close to impossible to get in, in southall getting in to the committee is more about how many people you know, less about what you stand for. So good luck with that

As for mergers I think thats a great concept, I must have talked to mate about this a few years ago. During the early 1800's the full moon would be a time for the sangat to get together, so in-effect there used to be 1 gurdwara per district, my history isnt to strong on this but isnt it because of Cast systems and lack of representation for other casts people Like Ravi Dassi's opened there own Gurdwaras due to the committees being monopolised by Jaths.

[UKLondonSikh]

Yes I think one of the ways to keep ego's sweet via any proposed mergers would be to make sure that the newly merged Gurdwaray don't have a single leader but a council of 5 leading sewadars from each of the Gurdwaray as demographically everyone knows the relative population strengths of each Gurdwara ... but if we had for example Singh Sabha, Ramgarhia, Ravidassia, Bhatra, Mazhabi etc sewadar joint-leaders that would ensure that nobody (hopefully) would have anything to complain about.

We need to actively fight the conversion of Mazhabi Sikhs into so-called Balmiki Hindu's ... we all know Bhai Jaita Ji's supreme bravery after Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji's shaheedi ... Ravidassia's need to know that every single Sikh bows down to Guru Ravidas Ji as our present Guru contains Ravidas Ji Maharaj's words ... Similarly, i think people need to know that the Ramgarhia Misl's fighters were historically composed 100% of true Khalsa's without any link to jaath-paath anyway (as they had all shed their old Hindu+Muslim caste identities) ... and that the Ramgarhia Misl ancestry-wise was actually composed of 90% non-tharkhan fighters ... and that was the glory of Sikhi ... that erstwhile Jatts, Khatri's, Saini's, Brahmin's etc all fought under Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgarhia ... because Sikhi was the one faith where all were judged purely on the merit of their ability and actions rather than their background. As for the fear of Jatt domination we need to actively spread the word that the vast majority of Jatts are Muslims + Hindu's and that the majority of Jatts actually hate+despise us Sikhs as proved in 1947+1984. By any means necassary achieving Gurdwara mergers both in the West and more importantly Indian villages is a vital pre-cursor to us having grander visions. So long as we have multi-Gurdwara's based along pathetic lines we can't hold our head up high to explain our faith.

[N30S1NGH]

Excellent idea, i totally agree.

I started similiar thread not long ago - ~ Ideas to have your dream gurdwara ~

http://www.sikhsangat.com/Index.php?/topic/61081-ideas-to-have-your-dream-gurdwara/

Please share your input there as well?

[UKLondonSikh]

SatSriAkaal (N30S1NGH) Paji that was an excellent post you made. It makes me mega khush to know that you care so much about Sikhi to think all those superb ideas. Regrettably i can't respond in full right now and simple economics mean that I don't intend to contribute to this forum at the same rate as this weekend in the future (as my strong belief is that money is key to effecting the kind of change Sikh philosophy wants to create in society for Sarbat dha Bhalla ... and if we have weak financial ability ourselves ... we are somewhat constrained from pushing forward Sikhi or helping others). I really liked your ideas 1d, 1e(ii), 1f + 2a, 2b +2f. I do however diagree with 4a. I believe that Amritdhari + Sehajdhari have equal claim upon Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj ... though obviously Sehajdhari Sikhs would need to be thoroughly vetted that they are genuinely committed to Sikhi as for example in Sindh, Pakistan there are hardly any Amritdhari there and hence the Granthi's and Committees are Sehajdhari. Ideally Amritdhari presidents where possible though.

A few quick points i'd mention are ...

... that I hate Ragi's getting offered £1 etc in front of SGGS Ji. Committees should pay them upfront or afterwards, as we are the only Panth that has such a strange tradition. I don't like that one bit.

The other thing I hate, being from the building trade myself, is that we are spending so much on Gurdwara structures. Case in point Havelock Road Gurdwara and Gravesend costing 17.5 million and 5 million respectively. Guru Sahib taught us that the structure need not be elegant (it was Ranjit Singh who was responsible for Harmandir Sahib in its current form) whilst people on this planet are going hungry.

I strongly don't like gold at Harmandir Sahib as a Giani said we should melt it and distribute the funds raised from that to helping the poor+downtrodden globally. I think we should leave fancy-dan houses of worship as the speciality of Hindus, Muslims + Christians and set ourself apart from those peope. To them spending a 100million brings them closer to Sai Baba or Jesus or light-skinned Arabic virgins in Paradise as they proudly proclaim to the world.

However, the more we waste on construction costs, without justification, takes us further away from God and Sikhi's true message imho. I don't like the ornate decorative features at certain Gurdwaray particularly when we're in the West. Architecturally they may look nice but we don't need them for spiritual salvation.

I think if we could have saved 8 million from the build cost at Havelock Road and 2 million at Gravesend .. and used that 10 million to help poor people around the world in a sustainable way, ParmAathma would be more pleased with our actions according to what Sikhi teaches us.

It's like the brother said if we are praying in some warehouse ... our Sikhi is strong because of the SGGS Ji + not the structure.

Last few points no paintings in Gurdwara's, no names of Gurdwara's associated with individuals or backgrounds and snooker tables compulsory in gym halls :-)

... in order to attract the youth towards a better way of life as opposed to them playing pool at the Pub.

Conscription of youth into activities that assist those around in the local non-Sikh community such as helping disabled kids, or homeless apne ... that stuff will help us as youth stay disciplined and focussed in our life and remember the blessings we enjoy ourselves.

No wastage of electricity money on lights on Diwali or Holi or even Gurpurabs ... again the money thus saved to go towards sustainable assistance to those that need the help rather than to blindly copy the Hindus, Muslims+Christians simply for the sake of it.

And it would be nice if all framed photo's of Giani Zail Singh could be thrown into the bin as well. Quite what place they had in Gurdwaray (especially before 1984) is beyond me ...

But overall in conclusion, Paji you had the best ideas already with what you already suggested and ParmAathma karay that we as a Sangat can one day get the majority of your ideas implemented

[Sherdil]

Chatanga ji, you're right. I need to form a group of my peers and make sure our voices are heard in the committee.

[UKLondonSikh]

I also think the youth have got to bombard the UK Sikh Council, Sikh Channel + Sangat Tv with our thoughts about this ... because positive change has occurred re beadbi ... so if we could highlight this agenda ... then the old-timers might just get the message at how badly they have dragged our Qaum's name into the dirt by splintering the honest Sangat. Non-UK Sikhs like N30S1NGH i'm sure you can address your relavant bodies in Mississauga, SurreyBC etc too.