Sikhs Movements And Sects (Website)

[Jonny101]

it wasn't just the singh sabha movement which saved sikhism. The british estimated that sikhs would be finished and in a later census they found that the sikh population had rapidly grown. Sant Attar Singh ji Mastuana wale did massive prachar and the growth in numbers was mainly due to his kirpa.

regarding Gurbani grammer, bhai vir singh ji tried to write a teeka of guru granth sahib ji that had all of the arths of Bani init. As he grew in avastha he found that when he looked back that the previous arths were incomplete!! he had to ask for maafi for his mistake as he realised that Gurbani has no ant. B/c Gurbani has no ant, it cannot be limited to a system of grammer, as grammer systems by their very nature, force an ant (limit) on the depth of meaning.

it wasn't just the singh sabha movement which saved sikhism. The british estimated that sikhs would be finished and in a later census they found that the sikh population had rapidly grown. Sant Attar Singh ji Mastuana wale did massive prachar and the growth in numbers was mainly due to his kirpa.

regarding Gurbani grammer, bhai vir singh ji tried to write a teeka of guru granth sahib ji that had all of the arths of Bani init. As he grew in avastha he found that when he looked back that the previous arths were incomplete!! he had to ask for maafi for his mistake as he realised that Gurbani has no ant. B/c Gurbani has no ant, it cannot be limited to a system of grammer, as grammer systems by their very nature, force an ant (limit) on the depth of meaning.

Sant Attar Singh Mastuane Jee's parchar was a part of the Singh Sabha effort not separate. All the parcharaks who took part during this movement did it as a joint effort.

[N30S1NGH]

The real assessment which needs to be done by wider sangat here, how much influence singh sabha members had from baba teja singh bhausar during that time. Did Singh sabha thought process changed or possibly influenced by baba teja singh bhausar. What were the effects? What were the draw backs?? Are senior members of singh sabha is on record condemning baba teja singh bhausar? I know he was excommunicated and he passed on. But anti hindu parnoia he left behind or mindset he left behind is still being followed? to extent to which degree? I know kala afghana are ones who are following them. The best way to get the assessment of this is to read babu teja singh bhausaria books or literature and draw an parallelism from it? may be scholars, historians wants to look into that.

Teja singh bhausara

Starting SIngh Sabha

While still in service, he started preaching the tenets of the Sikh faith as interpreted afresh by the Singh Sabha movement. In 1893 he established a Singh Sabha at his native village, Bhasaur, and in the following year he compiled and published Khalsa Rahit Prakash, a Sikh code of conduct. During that year he went on a pilgrimage on foot to Hazur Sahib, Nanded, where lie received Pahul or the rites of the Khalsa and was renamed Teja Singh. By his dedicated work in the Singh Sabha, he won wide recognition and, when the Chief Khalsa Diwan was established at Amritsar in 1902, he had the honour of saying the inaugural ardas or prayer.

On 1314 June 1903 he convened a largely attended divan or religious assembly at Bakapur, a small village in Jalandhar district, at which a Muslim family of seven and 28 others were administered pahul. He was nominated a member of the committee set up by the Chief Khalsa Diwan, on 20 October 1910, to draft a Sikh code of conduct, later published under the title, Gurmat Prakash : Bhag Sanskar. But Teja Singh's innate puritanism gradually asserted itself and he started drifting away from the mainstream of Sikh life. In 1907 he set up the Panch Khalsa Diwan or Khalsa Parliament under sanction from a Sikh synod held at Damdama Sahib, Talvandi Sabo, on 13 April 1907. In 1909 he opened a girls school at Bhasaur called Khalsa Bhujangan School where the pupils were required to don turbans like men instead of the traditional women's dupatta or scarf. Babu Teja Singh replaced the Sikh term for God "Vahiguru," by "Vahugur." The word karah prasad, Sikh sacrament, was substituted by mahaprashad. Teja Singh publicly repudiated the Sikh code published by the Chief Khalsa Diwan, Gurmat Prakash :

Bhag Sahkar in the preparation of which he himself had earlier participated, and issued his own code, Khalsa Rahit Prakash. He propagated the use of Sikh calendar beginning from the birth of Guru Nanak in AD 1469, and introduced his own titles and honorifics such as Kirpan Bahadur, Kakar Bahadur and Dahra Bahadur. A motion adopted by the Pahch Khalsa Diwan (Khalsa Parliament) disclaimed the Sahajdhari section of the Sikhs. In his literalist zeal, Teja Singh started garbling the Sikh canon and changed the traditional Sikh ardas or daily prayer of supplication.

Against Banis

He advocated the expunging from the Guru Granth Sahib of Ragmala as well as of compositions of the Bhaktas and Bhatts. He printed courses of reading for his school comprising barn contained in the Guru Granth Sahib, extracting from it the Bhatts' Savaiyye. He also had copies of the Holy Volume printed without the Ragmala. He was first person who rose voice against Dasam Granth. This led to widespread public protest and the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee, at its special meeting held on 31 March 1928, condemned the innovations introduced by the Pahch Khalsa Diwan. At its meeting on 15 July 1928, the Committee appealed to the Sikhs in general to boycott Babu Teja Singh and his colleagues of the Bhasaur Diwan and to the Takhts to excommunicate them.

Accordingly, the Akal Takht at Amritsar issued the excommunication decree on 9 August 1928. Other Takhts followed suit, Takht Sri Hazur Sahib, issuing a hukamnama on 13 January 1929, Takht Sri Patna Sahib on 27 March 1929 and Takht Sri Kesgarh Sahib on 22 August 1929. But Teja Singh was far from repentant.

Teja Singh suffered a sunstroke on 17 June 1933 and died on 29 August 1933.

[Jonny101]

N30 Singh Jee

Teja Singh Bhasaur wasn't bad during his early carrier as a Parcharak. He did massive in Punjab bringing many Hindus into the Sikh fold. His thoughts became corrupted later on. It is worth noting that when he became heretic it was the Singh Sabhiyas who excommunicated him. So I fail to understand why some people today try to link him to the Singh Sabha movement even though he became heretic after the Singh Sabha movement was finished.

Secondly Kala Afghana has nothing to do with Teja Singh Bhasaur. These are two different subject matters. Why try to artificially create a link and mix them up? Sikh Sidhaants and Hindu Sidhaants are separate and we can get plenty of farmaans from Dasam Granth showing how Gurmat is different as Dasam Granth is probably the most critical Granth to Hindu Dharm.

[N30S1NGH]

Thanks for information veer ji.

His thoughts became corrupted later on.

I wonder how his thoughts got corrupted? Does anyone have any info? Did he wrote any books? columns ? article? I just want to explore- what lead him to astray?

[kam1825]

Too much to read would have loved to contribute to this thread but I have no Idea how it has come to this point from where it started, will try to answer some of Osinghs questions regarding Viakaran, refute some of Bijlas ideas although I can see why he comes to such conclusions, add to Neos views but not at the moment. too much to do

[Bijla Singh]

Udasis and Nirmalas established idols of Sri Chand and removed Sri Guru Granth Sahib, or they installed other books of Hindu religious books along with Guru Granth Sahib, so that their ‘deras’ could not be taken over under new Gurdwara Act. The book says that Udasis used not to cut their hair/beard, but frightened by Singh Sabha movement

The book is wrong and it is a false assertion. Idols were installed by udasis and removed by Singh Sabha. Gurdwara Act did not allow SGPC to forcibly take over Gurdwaras. It asked for a clear cut definition of ‘Gurdwara’ so that the same rehat Maryada could be established and no one would mismanage it. If udasis were true udasis then they would’ve stuck to Gurmat and kept Guru Granth Sahib in their deras in which case Sikhs would not have had any problem with keeping them intact. The fact that udasis went against Gurmat and installed idols shows that they were not udasis but mayavees. They were greedy and attached to worldly things. All Gurdwaras belong to the Panth not to any particular group. All mahants who reformed themselves were forgiven by the Sikhs.

Same thing could be said of singh sabha.

Please present any evidence and spare me what today’s Nihungs and other groups are falsely claiming. Prior to Singh Sabha there were brothels in surrounding areas of Darbar Sahib which were destroyed and stopped after Singh Sabha died in 1902. Some nihungs supported mahants.

In fact if you speak to elder nihang singhs …research further.

British wanted to destroy and weaken the Akalis (independent army) that hated the British. The British also kept a close watch on all Sikhs who had some political aspirations so British invoking any idea in the Sikh community that would give them religious awakening and eventually lead to political agitations is impossible. It was Arya Samaj that first made the claim that Sikhs were Hindus and their leader Daya Nand was beaten back by the Singh Sabha. So what exactly do these nihungs believe these days? That Sikhs were Hindus? Singh Sabha started when four students from Sikh families open announced to convert to Christianity and the British wanted to either auction off Darbar Sahib or convert it to a church to stop which the famous miracle happened.

Can you please post their work after 1849…..off to hinduism.

What would you call a Nirmala (Tara Singh) claiming that Ik Oankaar is a corrupted form of Hindu Om? Wandering off to Hinduism means advocating Vedanta which is one of the Hindu philosophies and clearly rejected in Gurbani and Vaars.

On a lighter note, …… of concepts mentioned in Gurbani for Eg

Using Vedant or any other religious thought to further explain Gurmat is very different than coloring Gurmat in such religious thoughts. Gurmat has redefined many of the ancient terms and its philosophy is very different. There are fundamental differences.

What you talking about mate? Here are few shining examples of many examples- forgot about baba sahib singh bedi contribution ? sant karam singh ji hoti mardan contribution? sant attar singh ji muastanewale contribution, Sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale how about sant isher singh ji rara sahib wale? Do you know how many people got into sikhi because of these karak bhramgyani sadhus?

These Sikhs did not exist in 18^th century. Any nirmala or udasi who is an Amritdhari and inspires others to do so is a true Sikh. I doubt Sant Attar Singh was a nirmala as he was in the army and then became a Sikh.

Off course its pre-requisite ……. gyan of atma-paratma

.

Gurmat Naam philosophy is advait and the same thing. Naam is given by the Guru’s grace and Guru is Gurbani. Naam reveals true knowledge of self and also God. So Naam is not wholly separate from all the other terms you are stating. God of Gurmat is not Vedanti Nirgun. Gurbani employs many words of other philosophies but they are redefined and concepts are different so knowing Vedant is definitely not a pre-requisite. Vaars are key to Gurbani not Vedant. Think about it.

How sri guru nanak dev nirankar have very beautiful garden all provide its uniqueness.

In this garden of Sikhi, all are prescribed the same path just like flowers are fed the same water and sunlight. All must grow on water of Naam and sunlight of rehat.

chatanga ji, Mahants were from udasi groups. I totally agree with you that not everyone in the udasis could be bad. I have already stated that some changed their behavior when approached by the Sikhs but many became haughty and greedy due to law being behind them. Udasis have done great work up to 1849. On the same line, it would be wrong to dismiss the entire Singh Sabha due to Bhasaurs. I’ve read a few historical sources that listed all five names of Sikhs as Singh. If it happened before 1699 then they must have taken charan pahul and followed the same rehat. I personally highly doubt anyone was ever sent to any Hindu center for education because Guru Sahib had all the resources disposable at his hands. I believe they were sent to Hindu centers to preach Gurmat and were trained by Guru Sahib.

The real assessment……historians wants to look into that.

Teja Singh went too far and this is why he was kicked out. It was Singh Sabha scholars like Prof. Sahib Singh, Jodh Singh and others who greatly supported Bhagat Bani and refuted Bhasaurs. Bhai Randhir Singh refused to even see Teja Singh until he asked for forgiveness. You should study some history books rather than entirely relying on today’s verbal stories. Original Singh Sabha cannot be blamed entirely for Bhasaurs’ mistakes just like all udasi groups cannot be put in same category over mistakes of some immoral udasis.

I do not think opponents of grammar understand what it is. Grammar is a way to express a language or experience in writing so that other can understand it. Gurbani Anand, Rass, bliss, peace etc. that is experienced is not bound by any language but definitely explained in certain grammatical structure. Gurbani has siharis, kannas etc. which means it has its own grammar. Gurbani grammar is unique and hence divine. There is not a single line in Gurbani or any meaning that can be written without grammar. Gurbani grammar prevents misinterpretation to suit one’s own ideology. It is not a limit to Gurbani but runs parallel to it.

regarding Gurbani grammer, bhai vir singh ji tried to write a teeka of guru granth sahib ji that had all of the arths of Bani init. As he grew in avastha he found that when he looked back that the previous arths were incomplete!! he had to ask for maafi for his mistake as he realised that Gurbani has no ant. B/c Gurbani has no ant, it cannot be limited to a system of grammer, as grammer systems by their very nature, force an ant (limit) on the depth of meaning.

I used to say the same when I was ignorant of grammar. I have read this story but nowhere does it state that the grammar was no longer applicable. In fact, higher the meanings, better the grammar. Grammar explains structure of Gurbani and how words are pronounced and interpreted. Take away all the sihari, kanna, aunkar etc and see how many Taksalis can do Akhand Paath. The actual experience is not bound by grammar but when expressed whether orally or in writing, grammar is employed. Sampardas use a famous story of a Sikh mispronouncing a Gurbani verse:

ਕਰਤੇ ਕੀ ਮਿਤਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੈ ਜਾਣੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੂਰਾ ॥

The Sikh read ਕੇ instead of ਕੈ and was reprimanded. Now explain to me how it is possible to for Guru Sahib to punish a Sikh if Gurbani has no grammar? A Sikh could’ve said “Gurbani is not bound by viyakaran”. If meanings changed contrary to Gurmat with just one laanv, then it goes to show that grammar is important in Gurbani and has its place. I highly doubt that Guru Sahib did not teach grammar and its meanings to Sikhs. In any case, this is a separate topic. There is not a single verse or even “anubhav aarth” that cannot be written using grammar. Gurbani viyakaran just like Gurbani itself is divine and has no limits. It testifies Gurmat’s distinctiveness. Guru Rakha

[SunSingh]

Although the rahit did not call for the sgpc to forcibly take over gurdwaras, that is still what they did. the udasis are a samprada of sikh dharm, however i can understand why some might find that hard to believe b/c of how far this group has lapsed into hinduism. it's almost as guru sahib removed his kirpa from them when udasi groups removed guru granth sahib ji from their asthans so they could maintain control against the greed of the sgpc. however, not all should be painted with the same brush. just like today many in the sgpc are corrupt, that doesn't mean that all sgpc employees are corrupt - it would be intellectually lazy and unfair for us to make that assumption.

sant attar singh ji was nirmala. i believe that all those in the samprada descended from bhai daya singh ji and bhai dharm singh ji are considered nirmala.

btw, i don't think that anyone is saying that grammer doesn't exist in Gurbani. What people are saying is that the system of viyaakarn, as taught by Prof. Sahib Singh ji, is a manmade invention. The Gurus never created it. That is why none of the sampradas accept it.

anyways, looking forward to Kam's responses.

[osingh]

"What people are saying is that the system of viyaakarn, as taught by Prof. Sahib Singh ji, is a manmade invention. The Gurus never created it. That is why none of the sampradas accept it."

Bhai Sun Singh ji,

This statement tells me that you have not studied Gurbani Viakaran in any detail. Saying that Prof. Sahib Singh "invented" the system is nonsense. The Viakaran taught by Prof. Sahib Singh is the same as other scholars such as Prof. Teja Singh, Giani Harbans Singh, Bhai Joginder Singh e.t.c. All the fundamentals taught by these scholars are the same.

The lagu matra of words such as sihari, bihari give different meanings. There is no doubt on this. The sampardas did not reject Viakaran they were simply not aware of it. This vidya was lost and re-discovered in the early 1900s.

If it was "man-made" then it would be impossible to have written the rules for it. All the patterns in bani regarding the lagu matra would just be coincidence?

One can do a quick test, go onto srigranth.org and search for ਪਰਸਾਦੁ and ਪਰਸਾਦਿ. The first word has aunkar and inidicates a singular noun whereas the 2nd word has sihari. The sihari can gave different meanings but majority of the time for parsad it goves the meaning of "naal", kirpe de naal. The first fist means kirpa and the second word means kirpa de naal i.e. Gurparsad - Guru de kirpa naal.

This is just one example. One can give literally thousands of example's. Fine if you do not want to accept Viakaran but to say it is man-made is not correct.

Saying the above I still have huge respect for Sampardayak Giani's and listen to their katha's and literature.

Good quote veer Bijla Singh ji - "Original Singh Sabha cannot be blamed entirely for Bhasaurs’ mistakes just like all udasi groups cannot be put in same category over mistakes of some immoral udasis."

Rabb Rakhe

[N30S1NGH]

Bijla Singh quickly,

What would you call a Nirmala (Tara Singh) claiming that Ik Oankaar is a corrupted form of Hindu Om? Wandering off to Hinduism means advocating Vedanta which is one of the Hindu philosophies and clearly rejected in Gurbani and Vaars.

I already mentioned nirmale had difference of opnion with pandit tara singh narotam. You are incorrect regarding he advocated vedant as he was influenced by viashav mat he thought sri guru nanak dev ji was avtar of vishnu but later on was corrected came back in Gurmat, how do i know this? Sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale and along with other mahapursh have quoted his work and did parchar especially sargun avatars of Vahiguroo (different types etc).

Gurmat Naam philosophy is advait and the same thing. Naam is given by the Guru’s grace and Guru is Gurbani. Naam reveals true knowledge of self and also God. So Naam is not wholly separate from all the other terms you are stating. God of Gurmat is not Vedanti Nirgun. Gurbani employs many words of other philosophies but they are redefined and concepts are different so knowing Vedant is definitely not a pre-requisite. Vaars are key to Gurbani not Vedant. Think about it.

Naam is advait. No doubt. Gurmat naam "philosophy"( btw amazing brand name you guys should be in the marketing )..this is what i think based on the understanding:

​There are few underlining issues which needs to be addressed with this philosophy compare to traditional gurmat approach. With this philosophy (as far i have understood it) once Jiagiso obtains Gurmat Naam, its raw shabad surat marg - naam ras, amrit ras, atam ras (please correct me if i m wrong)...it happens to ignore other aspects in Gurbani sidhant especially advait (non duality) of mind , bhakti and gyan, sargun nirgun characteristic/framework (listed in jaap sahib), atma-paratma(exploration of one's real self- self reflection), guru-sant kirpa, sant milaap, sadh sangat, general sargun bhagti later broken down to- nine types of bhagti towards sri guru granth sahib ji, believing only in Saujya Mukhti- unity through immersion -without loosing one vajood (nothing wrong with that its parvan in gurmat) not in kaival mukhti (full immersion in nirgun chaitan bhram).

Just so sangat is clear. Here is traditional gurmat approach

In Gurmat the full milaap is done between bhagti, gyan and Shabad Surat (Naam). Shabad Surat, Gyan and Bhagti Marg are blended together in one. Gyan, Bhakti, Shabad surat marg are together in Gurmat not separate. Khalsa incorporates all of them in their daily life, because there are concept of Shabad Surat bhagti, gyan, advait(non duality of mind), sargun vahiguroo- our guru sahib, prem, seva, guru kirpa, nirgun, bairaag, gyan , hakum, raza, naam(shabad gyan), gyan (atma-paratma), all listed in Gurbani...how can we seperate them?

I love to discuss this with you to clear any misunderstanding.

On the side note:

Good quote veer Bijla Singh ji - "Original Singh Sabha cannot be blamed entirely for Bhasaurs’ mistakes just like all udasi groups cannot be put in same category over mistakes of some immoral udasis."

Point taken. On the same token, I hope bijla singh rethinks about his harsh assessment on nirmale and udasi as well as bijla singh himself later said - all udasi groups cannot be put in same category over mistakes of some immoral udasis

[N30S1NGH]

Also another clarification i need regarding gurmat naam "philosphy".

How does this philosphy explain the fact that we had Gurmukhs in the history and are still present - jaaping on various gurbani compositions (lakhs of japji sahibs, lakhs of sukhmani sahib) and (lakhs of mool mantar) and goes through same naam ras, amrit ras atam ras just like people perscribed to this philosphy.

Bhramgyanis and Gurmukhs at various states from nanaksar, taksal, bhai dya singh samparda etc have done immense jap of lakhs of mool mantar, japji sahib, sukhmani sahib which lead to listening to shabad dhuni, anhad shabad at dasam dwar leading to same naam ras, amrit ras, atam ras.

We can all agree all of gurbani is naam roop one way or another. At the end of day, it looks like its not about technality of specific "naam" so much so but rather where naam (be it gurmantar, mool mantar or bani roop) its pointing to. Speaking strictly from nirgun shabad upasakh view, if its pointing towards gyan of nirgun directly or indirectly(via sargun to nirgun) its parvan in Gurmat. I know we have discussed sargun upasana and nirgun upasana in great detail in the past thats the reason i want to focus only on nirgun shabad upasana in this post.

For the sake of being on same page or being in the middle ground, i won't discuss vedant or anything like that. But with that being said, I strongly believe this philosophy is totally oblivious on sargun and nirgun study. I strong beleive study on sargun and nirgun from sri guru granth sahib ji (sukhmani sahib aad), sri dasam granth (jaap sahib, akaal ustat aad) is extermely extermely extermely important for every sikh, so we stay within sri guru granth sahib (sukhmani sahib aad), sri guru gobind singh explanation of nirgun (listed in jaap sahib, akaal ustat aad) when explaining nirgun to prevent loose statements like only naam is nirgun, people consider only shabad dhuni(resosance), dasam dwaur to be nirgun, only ras(be it naam ras, amrit ras, atam ras) nirgun without thinking of boundary (lack of better word) of nirgun set by sri guru gobind singh maharaj ie - nirgun is rehat(Free) from all names/not limited to names, not limited to place -as its sarabvypak, rehat (free) from all ras/not limited to ras (be it naam, amrit, atam ras) repeateadly over and over again.