Krishna In Sikhism

[JSinghnz]

Guru Gobind Singh was very out spoken to totally reject the Hindu

Gods and Goddeses. In his Divine compositions he proclaimed--

God has no incarnation. Ye say that God is unconcieved and unborn.

How could he be from the womb of Kausalya, (Ram Chandra)

If he whom we call Krishna were God,why was he subject to death?

Why was God whom ye describe as holy and without enemity have driven

Arjan's chariot. Worship as God Him whose secrets none hath known or shall

know.

Thirty three Sawayas--X111

[Guest pratannanak]

N30 singh, admire your pyar... if i was you i would have either sworn at these people or probably just gone away into my own tapasya...thsese no called singhs are in a tunnel vision, infact id not call them singhs id just call them sikhs.. a singh is a very high avastha.. everyone claims to be one....

[GPS]

Guru sahib writes in chaupai sahib

Aad ant eke avtara

soi Guru samjhiyo hamara

So there is only avtar for sikhs from beginning to end and that is akal purakh himself.

[Into the Light]

I asked Sant Hari Singh Randawe Wale "Did Sri Krishan Bhagvan and Sri Raam Chandra have ghatta(n) (ie did they have shortcomings)?"

Sant Hari Singh replied "Yes they did have ghatta(n) (shortcomings)"

I then asked "Do our Sikh Guru Sahibs have ANY ghatta(n) (shortcomings)?"

Sant Hari Singh replied "Our Sikh Guru Sahibs have NO ghatta(n) whatsoever"

So it's clear just from the above that even Sant Hari Singh is saying they had shortcomings. From this it's simple to deduce that Sri Raam Chandar or Sri Krishan Bhagvan could have made some mistakes or bad judgement calls throughout their lives but our Guru Sahibs could never!

[JSinghnz]

chatanga, on 01 August 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

have been looking at a few websites, sikhi-wiki, searchgurbani etc, and they are giving accounts of some Bhagats been born well-before Guru Sahib.

Maybe we could collate some of the differing accounts from various websites and present them here?

hanji chatanga ji,

of course rama nand ji was guru of any of the bhagats but as i asked the above question about satgur, he wasnt satgur. Ramanand ji when met Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, he accepted Guru Nanak sahib ji Maharaj as his Satguru as per the bani of Bhagat Ramanand ji

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥

I am a sacrifice to You, O my True Guru.

ਜਿਨਿ ਸਕਲ ਬਿਕਲ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਾਟੇ ਮੋਰ ॥

You have cut through all my confusion and doubt.

Then all the students of Bhagat Ramanand ji met Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj and they all became sikhs of Guru Nanak Sahib. In bani of many bhagats we see the word ਸਤਿਗੁਰ been used. It is only dedicated to Dhan Guur Nanak Dev ji Sahib.

Because there is no one on earth other than Guru Nanak Dev Ji who is able to bless anyone with this divine gyaan.

Gur Jaisa Nahi ko Dev

If we look at Bhagats, there are many other compositions by them which are not included in Gurbani. Only those shabads are included in gurbani which were recited after Guru Sahib met Bhagats.

Also many shabads have mangal of ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ in the beginning of them which is a common mangal used in gurbani for many shabads.

First Bhagat Ramanand ji met Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj and became his disciple ( Bhagat ji addresses Guru Sahib as SATGUR) : ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥

Then all of the disciples met Guru Nanak Paatshah and they all became disciples of Guru Sahib.

This was not an ordinary thing. Of course all the bhagats had immense kamai and bhgati to have the opportunity to get direct gyaan from Guru Sahib and be able to compose huge part of GURBANI.

As per Krishan ji,

I have learned not to disrespect any of these avtari purashs. While listening to katha by Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh ji, all these avtars like Ram, krishan, even Shiv and Vishu are all addressed as krishan bhagwan, shiv ji maharaj, vishnu bhagwan etc. and look at us with no divine knowledge at all we are disrespecting them like they were nothing. And then we refer to Sri Dasam Granth Sahib to even diss them more but we forget that this is what Guru Sahib ji are saying and we are no one to be equal to guru sahib.

avtari purash had something them them to become avtari purashs and what do we have in us? Are we even good enough to be called gursikhs? Oh well being a gursikh? Could we imagine ourself to be chosen as an avtari purash by akal purakh? We all know the answer and we all know how papi we are.

Avtars were sent by Akal Purakh and of course they had something in them to be able to be a representative of Akal Purakh? Did Akal Purakh not know that these avtar will fail? or may be they were not even given that task that we think they failed in. They were all in Hukam and they did everything just like Akal Purakh wanted them to do. If they would have succeeded in making people japp naam then we would have naan already and this would not have caused Akal Purakh to come on earth in the roop of Guru Nanak Sahib.

there might be many illogics in the above paragraph but it was just written to understand the point of will of Akal Purakh.

Why do we have to worry about these things when we know we got the poora guru, samrath guru, satguru sacha paatshah. There is always a reason needed for things to happen. Akal Purakh did all this rachna. he created all this play to have mercy on us. We kaljugi jeevs are so lucky then anyone else that we got Guru Sahib.

I hope this topic will no longer show hate and disrespect toward avtari purashs and other members.

I was going to search all the bhagat bani and listen to the katha of shabads where the word Satgur is. I started with Bhagat Kabir ji and then I thought I should listen to Bhagat Ramanand Ji's one and only shabad in gurbani and Ramanand ji also used the word Satguru in his shabad. Just by listening to this shabad everything was cleared.

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਜੀ ਘਰੁ ੧

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਕਤ ਜਾਈਐ ਰੇ ਘਰ ਲਾਗੋ ਰੰਗੁ ॥

Where should I go? My home is filled with bliss.

ਮੇਰਾ ਚਿਤੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਮਨੁ ਭਇਓ ਪੰਗੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

My consciousness does not go out wandering. My mind has become crippled. ||1||Pause||

ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਮਨ ਭਈ ਉਮੰਗ ॥

One day, a desire welled up in my mind.

ਘਸਿ ਚੰਦਨ ਚੋਆ ਬਹੁ ਸੁਗੰਧ ॥

I ground up sandalwood, along with several fragrant oils.

ਪੂਜਨ ਚਾਲੀ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਠਾਇ ॥

I went to God's place, and worshipped Him there.

ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਤਾਇਓ ਗੁਰ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ॥੧॥

That God showed me the Guru, within my own mind. ||1||

ਜਹਾ ਜਾਈਐ ਤਹ ਜਲ ਪਖਾਨ ॥

Wherever I go, I find water and stones.

ਤੂ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਸਮਾਨ ॥

You are totally pervading and permeating in all.

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਭ ਦੇਖੇ ਜੋਇ ॥

I have searched through all the Vedas and the Puraanas.

ਊਹਾਂ ਤਉ ਜਾਈਐ ਜਉ ਈਹਾਂ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥

I would go there, only if the Lord were not here. ||2||

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੈ ਬਲਿਹਾਰੀ ਤੋਰ ॥

I am a sacrifice to You, O my True Guru.

ਜਿਨਿ ਸਕਲ ਬਿਕਲ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਕਾਟੇ ਮੋਰ ॥

You have cut through all my confusion and doubt.

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥

Raamaanand's Lord and Master is the All-pervading Lord God.

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਾਟੈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕਰਮ ॥੩॥੧॥

The Word of the Guru's Shabad eradicates the karma of millions of past actions. ||3||1||

http://gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/04-Katha/04-Sant%20Gurbachan%20Singh%20Ji%20%28Damdami%20Taksal%29/Katha%20Sri%20Guru%20Granth%20Sahib%20Ji/CD13%20%28Ang%201168-1273%29/028-Raag%20Basant-Ang-1195%20%28Bhagat%20Bani%29.mp3

Katha of the above shabad starts at 11:30mins

Bhul Chuk Maaf

sunny, be careful when you write without thinking.

You do not want to follow the teachings of our Gurus who

categorically rejected all those beliefs and rituals that implied the recognition of anything

but ONE GOD.

And then instead of understanding the clear message given by our Father, GURU GOBIND SINGH JI,

you dare to write, "And then we refer to Sri Dasam Granth Sahib to even diss them more."

[VanHelsingh]

If Krishna isn't in Sachkhand then he must be in one of the other realms, therefore does that mean he is stuck in Churasi Lakh Joon? I remember reading that someone can only escape the cycle of life and death when Sachkhand is reached.

Oh my.....it can't be.....he can't be......SACHIN TENDULKAR.....can he??!? It makes sense! Tendulkar is worshipped like a deity in India! Oh how the pieces have fallen together! No wonder Tendulkar has a handy swing when he's really an incarnation of Vishnu. A bit of a cheater if you ask me.

[N30S1NGH]

I asked Sant Hari Singh Randawe Wale "Did Sri Krishan Bhagvan and Sri Raam Chandra have ghatta(n) (ie did they have shortcomings)?"

Sant Hari Singh replied "Yes they did have ghatta(n) (shortcomings)"

I then asked "Do our Sikh Guru Sahibs have ANY ghatta(n) (shortcomings)?"

Sant Hari Singh replied "Our Sikh Guru Sahibs have NO ghatta(n) whatsoever"

So it's clear just from the above that even Sant Hari Singh is saying they had shortcomings. From this it's simple to deduce that Sri Raam Chandar or Sri Krishan Bhagvan could have made some mistakes or bad judgement calls throughout their lives but our Guru Sahibs could never!

I don't think anyone here is comparing sri krishan ji or sri ram chandar ji- hari avtars with our GURU AVTAR- SATGURU NANAK DEV NIRANKAR. Despite of shortcoming of sri krishan ji , he is in sachkhand. Sant Hari Singh Ji Randhawale (along with other sikh saints- sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale etc ) clearly said is on record saying krishan ji is in sachkhand, sunny veer for the sake of upholding the truth, please post the recording if you can when we met sant ji.

Anyway, i can't be arsed with this topic anymore..hehe..i m gone on vacation today for three weeks-hurraayyyyyyyyyyyy, happy naam simran everyone..!!

[Into the Light]

I don't think anyone here is comparing sri krishan ji or sri ram chandar ji- hari avtars with our GURU AVTAR- SATGURU NANAK DEV NIRANKAR. Despite of shortcoming of sri krishan ji , he is in sachkhand. Sant Hari Singh Ji Randhawale (along with other sikh saints- sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale etc ) clearly said is on record saying krishan ji is in sachkhand, sunny veer for the sake of upholding the truth, please post the recording if you can when we met sant ji.

Anyway, i can't be arsed with this topic anymore..hehe..i m gone on vacation today for three weeks-hurraayyyyyyyyyyyy, happy naam simran everyone..!!

With all due respect to Sant Hari Singh Jee and Sant Jagjit Singh Harkowale and I do respect their opinions...but just becuase they say something, it doesn't automatically mean that it is Sat. Their opnions can't just be discarded...that i do admit though!

And I admit, i could be wrong about Sri Krishan Bhagvaan but for me the only question that just doen't make sense is 'If Sri Krishan Bhagvaan is in Sachkhand, then surely the path (marg) he initiated must be Sat. Then why did Guru Sahib create a new marg? Why didn't Guru Sahib just not come to reinstill the maryada of Sri Krishan Bhagavan? Why does Guru Sahib denounce the 4 Castes that are propogagted by the Veda's. The same caste system Sri Ram Chandar lived by religiously...even to the extent where he killed a low-caste man because he was considered unworthy to recite the Hindu mantra's. Surely Guru Sahib should have promoted the very same caste system then as it was promoted by Sri Ram Chandar etc?

All Brahamgianni's may have different maryada's but all have the same sidhants...but here Guru Sahib clearly has different sidant to the Hindu Gods...the caste system being just one of many'

It just doesn't add upto me!

[N30S1NGH]

Don't blame the bhramgyanis or great sants/parcharaiks who done great sangat of poran bhramgyanis for not understanding the maharaj's lella and Gurmat..they clearly do but we don't..!!.

We should blame ourselves for thinking- one dimension in gurmat and superimpose our views/ideals/thinking on Gurmat. Blame ourselves for not engaging genuinely in gurmat (leave your bias out before entering in Gurmat)...Blame ourselves for not upholding the truth in fear of insecurity/hindu parnioa (oh rss ought to get us- gee no wonder they get us..lol..we live in insecurity, fear and trembling..lol - http://www.sikhsanga...-theologically/ ).. .Blame ourselves for engaging in Gurmat as if one is engaging in foot ball game (quick scores, quick add up- check and balances -reject position held in gurmat just because it does not add up )...thanks for quickly adding up in Gurmat...those who spent 30+ years studying gurmat should learn from youths of quickly adding up in Gurmat... :D....we should take ourselves back in our childhood where we didn't have any bias where we didn't have any partiality towards other kids, where we innocently genuinely equally and with full sam dristhi (one vision) engaged with all the kids together regardless of their origin, race, religion, kid...we should take ourselves back in our divine/serene pure childhood where we didn't have any bias to understand Gurmat..!!

[panthicunity]

So Mukh Jale Jit Ke Tahkur Jooni