Prayer For Specific Physical Outcomes

[rrss]

Dear Sangat Members,

I'm a new user on this website and I was not brought up a Sikh (so my attitudes may be different) and I am by no means at an advanced stage of learning so I apologise in advance for saying something incorrect.

I've noticed some Sikhs make references to praying for specific physical outcomes whereas others do not. I've seen the thread debating the specifics of Abrahamic religions versus the Sikh view of 'God' but haven't found an answer to my specific question.

I have noticed over time that some Sikhs will state that they have themselves or will ask others to actively pray 'for' a particular physical (i.e. physical worldly realm) outcome, be it to consoling relatives of the recently departed, praying 'for' a speedy recovery or praying 'for' strength or more obviously praying 'for' a specific outcome or action.

From my understanding, owing to the difference between the concept of 'God' in Sikhi and other religions, 'God' in Sikhism is not an omnipotent being who actively 'listens' to prayers which ask 'for' something to happen. Indeed, I see the infinite Waheguruji as not necessarily intervening at all to change the course of what happens in this physical realm as a result of prayer or on whim. As I understand it, all future physical events and actions including intangible emotions are wholly influenced by physical actions, emotions and behaviour, which is why Sikhism to me is all about practising and doing to mange in the physical form, whilst the prayer and meditative aspect relates more to the spiritual aspect of remembering God and seeking, for ultimate (personal) union with God (facilitated by the 'correct' physical actions and with Gurujis kirpa)- and not in itself causing any direct effect on the physical realm other than by becoming a better person in the Gurji's image and therefore having a positive influence through physical actions.

Would someone be able to state specific points in scripture for reference?

Thank you.

Bhul chuk maaf karna.

[SunSingh]

we are allowed to pray for specific outcomes. There is Bani wherein some of the Bhagats ask for a good wife, food to eat etc (Aarti).

[Singh559]

True Aarti:

If you ask for anything in this life, if you work hard enough you will obtain it, whether it is cars, money, mansions or virtually anything. However, to a GurSikh these aren't important. A Sikh may have everything in the world and yet they know that they really don't own these things. (they remain unattached)

What a GurSikh does Ardas for isn't for selfish things. A GurSikh begs Guru Ji to never stray from performing a righteous deed and always to stay at the charan kamal of Guru Sahib.

[rrss]

I appreciate that, however unlike in Christianity, where one has a personal relationship with an Abrahamic style 'God' and converses with them on a daily basis, just as you and I are having this conversation now, or having prayers not based on any fixed hymn, but rather a list of demands, I'm not aware of the theological concept of asking 'for' anything as having any basis in Sikhi (but I'm no expert). Sure, you could be thinking at the back of your mind, I really want something to happen, whilst doing Ardas, but scrictly speaking, should one not have the mind clear and thinking only of Waheguruji? Also when it comes to making something happen, maya from my understanding is entirely our reponsibility to steer clear of, all we have is that Waheguruji 'preserves the body and protects the soul'.

we are allowed to pray for specific outcomes. There is Bani wherein some of the Bhagats ask for a good wife, food to eat etc (Aarti).

Bhagat Dhanna (SGGSji Ang 695) does beg the Lord for material things, but from my understanding this is to demonstrate the falsehood of praying for worldy things and believing that Waheguru will deliver what is required, rather than supporting that such things can be asked for.

O Lord of the world, this is Your lamp-lit worship service.

You are the Arranger of the affairs of those humble beings who perform Your devotional worship service.

Lentils, flour and ghee - these things, I beg of You.

My mind shall ever be pleased.

Shoes, fine clothes, and grain of seven kinds - I beg of You.

A milk cow, and a water buffalo, I beg of You, and a fine Turkestani horse. A good wife to care for my home. Your humble servant Dhanna begs for these things, Lord.

Dhanna further qualifies this with the following in Asa:

Prosperity, adversity, property and wealth are just Maya

Your humble servant is not engrossed in them.

[Not2Cool2Argue]

Ive heard that god is samdarsi (literally: same gaze) that he looks at everyone with the same emotion, treats everyone similarily.

He doesn't hate the sinner or like the one who does good deeds. (of course he has a system in place to deal with the sinners/good ppl)

but he is not personally involved.

However, when/if someone prays to him, god listens and becomes personally involved.

God is conscious energy, so he can care and love, though usually he is veparvah(careless, worryless?)

[alias]

1 is gurmat. another is manmat,

so, if u go towards manmat, its bad. gurmat is good.

askin for an outcome, is manmat, therefore, will always come crashing down. like, if a person was to ask for a girlfriend, how much manmati can u get.. this will happen, its no that, ardaas works sumtimes, it will always work. exams, are not manmat, cuz u would like to pass with good grade, but, u will also understand that its in gods hands.

if we do ardaas for somthing specific, it will come true. depending on the level of gurmat regarding that ardas, it will either dissolve, or will be in line with gurmat, so it will be approved by guru G. bottom line is that guru G in gurbani givs us the ardaas to do. i do exams ardaas. for a good outcome. or if a loved one has run away etc.. its ok.. its in line with gurmat.

[Only five]

Ive heard that god is samdarsi (literally: same gaze) that he looks at everyone with the same emotion, treats everyone similarily.

He doesn't hate the sinner or like the one who does good deeds. (of course he has a system in place to deal with the sinners/good ppl)

but he is not personally involved.

However, when/if someone prays to him, god listens and becomes personally involved.

God is conscious energy, so he can care and love, though usually he is veparvah(careless, worryless?)

There is a balance here, which Sikhs need to understand. We are Saint and Soldiers, we live as miri and piri. In a split second Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj can create Khalsa Raj on the universe. Khalsa flags will be seen from all corners of the earth, everyone will bow to Satguru and Fateh would be heard in every household. What is the point of Khalsa Raj? Is it to control others against what they wish in life or bring contentment and truth in everyones life where they raise the Khalsa flag themselves over their heads?

Whatever we ask for we ask from Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj. There is no other giver in this world. Some ask for a new car and they surely recieve it, but did they ask how Bhagat Dhanna Jatt Ji Maharaj asked? Bhagat Dhanna Jatt ji Maharaj did not ask for a worldly kingdom where he would be worshipped. Bhagat ji asked for what he needs to continue on this planet so he can complete life's goal (Bhagat Ji was not rich and never asked for wealth, just enough to get by). Bhagat Ji was not engrossed in worldly objects. Just the other day i was thinking of how Maharaj is taken to peoples houses for Akhand Paaths and they use their own car most of the time. Many of these families drink alcohol, eat meat, and do other manmat stuff in the cars. So in the moment i wished every Gurdwara had the money to transport Maharaj in a clean vehicle or i can be given the strength to least help one Gurdwara buy a new car.

Objects are not bad, but the reason why they are being asked for can make them Gurmat or maya.

[rrss]

So the general consensus is that certain types of asking (for things/events to happen) are Manmat (such as to complete life's goal- although I would argue that one needs to escape the illusion of maya to reach life's goal, maya prevents God realisation and does not enable it- a man who dies of starvation may not have food but may realise union with God- if he begged for food as this will enable him to live longer and healthier and have time to study Gurbani- this is strictly maya).

Surely if everything is with His kirpa we need not actively ask for it, there should be full faith that what you need and deserve will be delivered.

God permeates the inner beings of the Gurmukhs.

God knows the suffering of her mind.

But there is still so much desire within them-they still yearn for clothes and food.

In His own way, He provides us with our food; in His own way, He plays with us

He blesses us with all comforts, enjoyments and delicacies, and he permeates our minds.

Our Father is the Lord of the World, the Merciful Lord.

Just as the mother protects her children, God nurtures and cares for us.

So God knows all, he knows the suffering. He will deliver if one is fully devoted. Guruji says He nurtures and cares for us, why do we ever need to ask for anything? Contentment is important.

Ive heard that god is samdarsi (literally: same gaze) that he looks at everyone with the same emotion, treats everyone similarily.

He doesn't hate the sinner or like the one who does good deeds. (of course he has a system in place to deal with the sinners/good ppl)

but he is not personally involved.

However, when/if someone prays to him, god listens and becomes personally involved.

God is conscious energy, so he can care and love, though usually he is veparvah(careless, worryless?)

I agree.

[SunSingh]

I appreciate that, however unlike in Christianity, where one has a personal relationship with an Abrahamic style 'God' and converses with them on a daily basis, just as you and I are having this conversation now, or having prayers not based on any fixed hymn, but rather a list of demands, I'm not aware of the theological concept of asking 'for' anything as having any basis in Sikhi (but I'm no expert). Sure, you could be thinking at the back of your mind, I really want something to happen, whilst doing Ardas, but scrictly speaking, should one not have the mind clear and thinking only of Waheguruji? Also when it comes to making something happen, maya from my understanding is entirely our reponsibility to steer clear of, all we have is that Waheguruji 'preserves the body and protects the soul'.

Bhagat Dhanna (SGGSji Ang 695) does beg the Lord for material things, but from my understanding this is to demonstrate the falsehood of praying for worldy things and believing that Waheguru will deliver what is required, rather than supporting that such things can be asked for.

O Lord of the world, this is Your lamp-lit worship service.

You are the Arranger of the affairs of those humble beings who perform Your devotional worship service.

Lentils, flour and ghee - these things, I beg of You.

My mind shall ever be pleased.

Shoes, fine clothes, and grain of seven kinds - I beg of You.

A milk cow, and a water buffalo, I beg of You, and a fine Turkestani horse. A good wife to care for my home. Your humble servant Dhanna begs for these things, Lord.

Dhanna further qualifies this with the following in Asa:

Prosperity, adversity, property and wealth are just Maya

Your humble servant is not engrossed in them.

I appreciate that, however unlike in Christianity, where one has a personal relationship with an Abrahamic style 'God' and converses with them on a daily basis, just as you and I are having this conversation now, or having prayers not based on any fixed hymn, but rather a list of demands, I'm not aware of the theological concept of asking 'for' anything as having any basis in Sikhi (but I'm no expert). Sure, you could be thinking at the back of your mind, I really want something to happen, whilst doing Ardas, but scrictly speaking, should one not have the mind clear and thinking only of Waheguruji? Also when it comes to making something happen, maya from my understanding is entirely our reponsibility to steer clear of, all we have is that Waheguruji 'preserves the body and protects the soul'.

Bhagat Dhanna (SGGSji Ang 695) does beg the Lord for material things, but from my understanding this is to demonstrate the falsehood of praying for worldy things and believing that Waheguru will deliver what is required, rather than supporting that such things can be asked for.

O Lord of the world, this is Your lamp-lit worship service.

You are the Arranger of the affairs of those humble beings who perform Your devotional worship service.

Lentils, flour and ghee - these things, I beg of You.

My mind shall ever be pleased.

Shoes, fine clothes, and grain of seven kinds - I beg of You.

A milk cow, and a water buffalo, I beg of You, and a fine Turkestani horse. A good wife to care for my home. Your humble servant Dhanna begs for these things, Lord.

Dhanna further qualifies this with the following in Asa:

Prosperity, adversity, property and wealth are just Maya

Your humble servant is not engrossed in them.

We need food etc to live in this world. These are all maya. But Dhanna ji is not saying asking for these is wrong, he is simply saying that he is not engrossed in them. Similar to how a lotus lives in the muck but remains floating on top, untouched, unengrossed.