Japping Naam - How Important?

[SheikhFareed]

dear sadsangat.

A post in another thread posted by my veer N30S1NGH, was posted a thukh in sri Akal Ustat bani

I fully believe in this bani as being written by guru maharaj himself, this is not a topic of dasam granth etc.

But the thukh has really got me thinking, now i feel confused.

This is the thukh.

ਜਾਪ ਕੇ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਜੋ ਪੈ ਪਾਯਤ ਅਜਾਪ ਦੇਵ ਪੂਦਨਾ ਸਦੀਵ ਤੁਹੀਂ ਤੁਹੀਂ ਉਚਰਤ ਹੈਂ ॥

If the unmutterable Lord can be realised by the repetition of His Name, then a small bird called pudana repeats "Tuhi, Tuhi" (Thou art everyting) all the time.

Does this mean there is no point in doing nam japna? as a bird can do this too.

I know some of sangat will say, a bird cant show love or has no intellect like humans. But, it says the Lord is unmutterable, meaning it cant be spoken by anyone which surely includes humans. It is a question which came to mind because today I have begun my day at work with trying to do lots of nam simran so far thank waheguru and have just visited this on my lunch break to see that thread and then now I question this.

These two videos shows what the thukh means when bird repeating Gods name.

May God bless this maha moorakh with His gian. dhan sadsangat ji.

[MrDoaba]

Does this mean there is no point in doing nam japna? as a bird can do this too.

I know some of sangat will say, a bird cant show love or has no intellect like humans. But, it says the Lord is unmutterable, meaning it cant be spoken by anyone which surely includes humans. It is a question which came to mind because today I have begun my day at work with trying to do lots of nam simran so far thank waheguru and have just visited this on my lunch break to see that thread and then now I question this.

I think maybe it means the bird is Japping Naam all the time but it makes no difference to the bird, the bird is not subject to the effects of Naam whereas we humans are because this is the only life form out of 8.4million forms we can truly realise Waheguru through Naam but we still dont choose to sometimes even though we know it will only benefit us.

This is just a very basic answer so i hope someone with more gyaan can elaborate on what ive said.

If anything this should give you more motivation to Jap Naam Veer Ji.

[N30S1NGH]

Singh don't take gurbani tuk out of context. Off course naam jaap is important. Naam jaap is food for the soul but maharaj is targetting mindset who wrap their head around it- naam jaap without any emotions.

~~ Sach Kahon Sun leho Sabhe ~~

~~Jin Prem Kiyo Tin Prabh Payo ~~

Guru maharaj declared Prem is shraist(highest) out of all read whole couplet, if there is no prem there is nothing, all the technicalities in meditation...pretty much like doing simran like a robot without any emotions which can be further broken down to:

- forcing dhyan without emotions/prem

- forcing smadhi through bibek buddhi on your own real self with out emotions (prem/bairaag)

- some claim we are sargun vaddis without prem

- some claim we are nirgun vaddis without prem

- some claim we are shabad upasakhs without prem

- some doing simran with hyperventilation without prem.

- some doing simran robotically (without prem) idiolzing shabad(vahiguroo) without emotions

- some doing jap of 150000 mool mantar without prem

- some holding chailsa doing patt without prem

- some doing simran with mala without prem

- some doing simran robotically (without prem) listening to anhad shabad - getting hooked on it for own selfish tripti(satisfaction) getting stuck in anand mandal(realm) thinking thats the higher reality.

- some stuck at dasam dvar listening to sounds/naad without prem, thinking thats higher reality.

If you want to know prem, read through sakhiya Sri Guru Angad Dev prem towards Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Sri Guru Amar das Prem towards Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji...Sri Guru Ram Das towards Sri Guru Arjan Dev...Baba Farid prem towards his murshid...all orginal panj pyares prem towards Sri Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj asking for head..bhai nand lal goya prem towards dhan dhan sri guru gobind singh maharaj , read his deep craving love poetry

http://www.sikhaware...craving-poetry/

20th century examples of prem- baba isher singh ji nanaksar wale prem towards baba nand singh ji kaleran..bhai gurmukh singh aurdesa prem towards sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale jumped in pyre of fire while sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale was being cremated, sacrificed his mann, tan, dhan, burned himself to death with sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale body cremation..sant isher singh ji rara sahib prem bairaag towards sant attar singh ji reru sahib wale, sant jvala singh prem towards sant aya singh ji hoti mardan, sant waryam singh ji ratwara sahib prem towards sant isher singh ji rara sahib wale..sant nand singh ji kaleran prem towards dhan dhan sri guru granth sahib ji where guru nanak dev nirankar gave him darshan..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have our own sufism in the sikhi which hardly anyone explores, but most of people are busy going over technicalities of things i.e- searching for theological answers/explanation in sikhi, searching for logical/rational explanation of sikhi (i know i have for longest time- guilty of it)..all of its nothing compared to love.

Everyone should read sri akaal ustat sahib, amount of technalities, karam kaands maharaj did khandan its just amazing amazing .!!!!!!!!!!!

I will end my post with an article - what is love?? It's from Sant Jvala Singh Harkhowale pustuk- Jivan Kiranie.

refererence: The Radiance of complete journey to Akaal Purkh

chapter- Sant baba Aiya Singh Hoti Mardan giving divine sermons( on love) to Sant baba jawala Singh Ji.

What is love?

Love: Love is the divine law. It will win where reason fails.

God is love and love is God.

It is to surrender one's self to the beloved and giving away own heart and moving like a bewildered person. If you want to know about love, then ask love itself. Do not ask anybody else, he will not answer !. Only love knows how to describe itself lovely. It will explain pretty well what it is. True love means to give up possession or self. Until ego is renounced no one can find that path of love. Cleanse your heart, like a mirror(glass) clear and simple. So long heart has imprints of lust one cannot see the face of love. Love gives life to humans, true love negates greed, Kabir sahib says: Everybody talks about love, yet no one expereinces love. Only such a person knows love, as remains, imbided in it day and night. If love came and gone, everybody saw it but if one cries now then laughs next moment, it is not love.

Shalok Mohalla 4 (p-301)

My body and mind are ever imbued with my lord's love,

Be though merciful, O god, that I Abide in Guru's peace. (1)

God's love grants such a high vision that to even a helpless that he does not care about the kings(Master of corwn) and throne, lover weaves gorgeous clothes like attish and kim khwab with the blood of his heart and spreads under the feet of his beloved. Only lover can help someone to reach God's court and attaining to such a position is real ascention to God's place(Heaven). If you want to read the true story of ascention of love then look at the face of some true lover. From his face, one can have the glimplse of love. In love, Gardens of happiness bloom in heart's blood. Lovers are always absorbed in God's love. On this path several mansoors turn down worldy honours and choose to kiss the crucifixion instead. How can one gain the wealth of divine love? Without guide's instruction it is not possible. Only some one with large heart can win this with God's grace. How to recognise love? If you find someone lost in despair and disheartned he is deviod of love. He does not belong to the realm of love. Even though studded with thorns, a lover is always happy like some body in garden in spring. Find not such a one lonely because he is always in God's embrace. Should I offer Nimaz (Muslim prayer) or look in your way? How can I visit kahba (God's place in holy mecca)

Bulleh shah

The Nimaz of memories lie in bowing down before God and lovers Nimaz in forgetting one's body.

Ablution of memories is in washing hands and feet but lover's ablution is washing hands off the world. Unless you take your hands off the worldy tempations do not remember God because without Wuzzo, Nimaz is not acceptable in Islamic Code(Shria).

Having delivered such lovely sermon, sahib siri baba aiya singh ji hoti mardan waley threw glance towards the sipahi(jawala singh). Lover had filled his goblet of heart with love..tears of joy began to role down his face and his head tilted towards baba ji's feet. Eyes of mind became Ganga-Jamuna and he washed baba ji's feet with tears. It was like his own heart cleaned up.. his forehead got blessed with baba ji's feet touch. The way of love began to rise in his heart and his tongue un-intentionally moved in meditation. Glands of knowledge opened up. Heart began to feel coolness of love. Light flashed up. Six close cycles(chakars) turned up. Petals blossomed up. Unstruck melodies became aloud. All hair turned into tongues and every single hair changed into divine word. He began to realise all around. Baba Aya Singh Ji merged jawala singh ji into sargun-nirgun. There was flood of light all around. Having done this miracle, Baba Ji again came into being and turned jawala singh to an saint. He lifted him from his feet, took him in embrace and asked, "Now tell me, do you know me or not? "Jawala Singh began to weep in low and said, "By your grace, I have come to know of my real self. I am thankful to you I have realised that I have been your servant since many births. You are my mentor(Murshid). Then Baba Jawala Singh became silent. Baba Aya Singh Ji thus turned sipahi into saint and blended him into his own being.

Grace of Give commandmends given by Baba Ji:

1. Remember God breath by breath

2. Never be egoist.

3. Keep company of those detached from the world.

4. Do not Beg.

5. Be aloof.

Sant jawala Singh Ji listened to the commandments and dutyfully observed all throughout life.

[Mehtab Singh]

ਬੀਜ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਰਬ ਕੋ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥

The Beej Mantra, the Seed Mantra, is spiritual wisdom for everyone.

ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਮਹਿ ਜਪੈ ਕੋਊ ਨਾਮੁ ॥

Anyone, from any class, may chant the Naam.

ਜੋ ਜੋ ਜਪੈ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥

Whoever chants it, is emancipated.

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਪਾਵੈ ਜਨੁ ਕੋਇ ॥

And yet, rare are those who attain it, in the Company of the Holy.

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਉਰ ਧਾਰੈ ॥

By His Grace, He enshrines it within.

ਪਸੁ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਮੁਘਦ ਪਾਥਰ ਕਉ ਤਾਰੈ ॥

Even beasts, ghosts and the stone-hearted are saved.

ਸਰਬ ਰੋਗ ਕਾ ਅਉਖਦੁ ਨਾਮੁ ॥

The Naam is the panacea, the remedy to cure all ills.

ਕਲਿਆਣ ਰੂਪ ਮੰਗਲ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਮ ॥

Singing the Glory of God is the embodiment of bliss and emancipation.

ਕਾਹੂ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਧਰਮਿ ॥

It cannot be obtained by any religious rituals.

ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਧੁਰਿ ਕਰਮਿ ॥੫॥

O Nanak, he alone obtains it, whose karma is so pre-ordained. ||5||

ਉਚਰਹੁ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਲਖ ਬਾਰੀ ॥

Chant the Lord's Name, hundreds of thousands of times, O my dear,

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਵਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਪਿਆਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

and drink deeply of the Ambrosial Essence of God. ||1||Pause||

ਸੂਖ ਸਹਜ ਰਸ ਮਹਾ ਅਨੰਦਾ ॥

Peace, celestial bliss, pleasures and the greatest ecstasy are obtained;

ਜਪਿ ਜਪਿ ਜੀਵੇ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦਾ ॥੨॥

chanting and meditating, you shall live in supreme bliss. ||2||

[SheikhFareed]

sangat ji, i am not trying to argue against nam jap as like i said i try to do as much simran too especially in work and amritvela. but i taking a look at this from a different way.

as said above, there needs to be love, but if guru is saying the lord is unmutterable, then how can even human mutter it? ]

I understand what sangat has said above. but then this thukh has also brought question..if you look. like you said you require sharda and prem...but how can a baby in the womb have any expression or emotion before it is even born.

hir hir nwmu jpy AwrwDy ivic AgnI hir jip jIivAw ]

har har naam japae aaraadhhae vich aganee har jap jeeviaa ||

Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, and meditating on it within the fire of the womb, your life is sustained by dwelling on the Naam.

How can a baby meditate in the womb? there is no way it can do it with love, isnt it the same as the parrot doing the simran? the baby has not developed intellect, it is simimlar to the bird, is it not?

[N30S1NGH]

It's hard to explain but baby meditation in the womb is naam liv, there is nothing besides naam simran in the womb as whole vahiguroo ji creation is sustained by Naam resonance (Ongkar- Vahiguroo). Equating baby meditating as parroting is comparing apples and oranges..not related..!!

[Consciousness]

sangat ji, i am not trying to argue against nam jap as like i said i try to do as much simran too especially in work and amritvela. but i taking a look at this from a different way.

as said above, there needs to be love, but if guru is saying the lord is unmutterable, then how can even human mutter it? ]

I understand what sangat has said above. but then this thukh has also brought question..if you look. like you said you require sharda and prem...but how can a baby in the womb have any expression or emotion before it is even born.

hir hir nwmu jpy AwrwDy ivic AgnI hir jip jIivAw ]

har har naam japaeaaraadhhae vich aganee har jap jeeviaa ||

Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, and meditating on it within the fire of the womb, your life is sustained by dwelling on the Naam.

How can a baby meditate in the womb? there is no way it can do it with love, isnt it the same as the parrot doing the simran? the baby has not developed intellect, it is simimlar to the bird, is it not?

Singh Ji you are finally waking up - you are starting to do shabad veechar!! Yes, that tuk guru ji mentions talks about relisation ajap means the nirgun aspect of shabad.

Saying waheguru out loudly in itself will not make you obtain God because that word is perceivable and is part of form/maya. U

nmutterable shabad is WHO YOU ARE. If you realise that then YOU BECOME GOD. Death will be removed you'll be immortal.

Naam is not bound to repeating a shabad - everything is naam. If you sat down and repeated GOLD, GOLD, GOLD would you get the gold

In the same way repeating God's name is a starting point.

You are waking up - I'm so happy for you!!!

Forever your daas

Consciousness

[Consciousness]

sangat ji, i am not trying to argue against nam jap as like i said i try to do as much simran too especially in work and amritvela. but i taking a look at this from a different way.

as said above, there needs to be love, but if guru is saying the lord is unmutterable, then how can even human mutter it? ]

I understand what sangat has said above. but then this thukh has also brought question..if you look. like you said you require sharda and prem...but how can a baby in the womb have any expression or emotion before it is even born.

hir hir nwmu jpy AwrwDy ivic AgnI hir jip jIivAw ]

har har naam japaeaaraadhhae vich aganee har jap jeeviaa ||

Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, and meditating on it within the fire of the womb, your life is sustained by dwelling on the Naam.

How can a baby meditate in the womb? there is no way it can do it with love, isnt it the same as the parrot doing the simran? the baby has not developed intellect, it is simimlar to the bird, is it not?

Gurbani is right the shabad that a baby does is the nirgun shabad, which doesn't need learning because it is you. Clearly it doesn't repeat waheguru waheguru because one it hasn't learnt it, plus the baby's mind is not developed so it can't comprehend words. Gurbani says maya makes a baby forget naam but it clearly isn't referring to waheguru as a word because then one would not remember other words because maya would make them forget. A person would technically become a mute if maya made them forget words or shabads LOL.

It's hard to explain but baby meditation in the womb is naam liv, there is nothing besides naam simran in the womb as whole vahiguroo ji creation is sustained by Naam resonance (Ongkar- Vahiguroo). Equating baby meditating as parroting is comparing apples and oranges..not related..!!

Bhai sahib naam resonance occurs at the point of mool maya the tipping point between nirgun and sargun. But God and the baby's birthi is prior to resonance and beyond it. Naam there is the nirgun aspect not ong kar resonance.

[N30S1NGH]

Bhai sahib naam resonance occurs at the point of mool maya the tipping point between nirgun and sargun. But God and the baby's birthi is prior to resonance and beyond it. Naam there is the nirgun aspect not ong kar resonance.

Thanks singh, didn't know that..how do you explain the gurbani tuk from jaap sahib and other place in gurbani.

Pirthame On(g)kar So Dhun Poran Jagat Mae Raha ||

Fist ongkar was recited and that resosance created world and give nourishment to this world. (Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Dasam Granth Sahib)

Ongkar aad kathni anad, Khal Khand Khyal Gurbar Akaal ||

[Consciousness]

Thanks singh, didn't know that..how do you explain the gurbani tuk from jaap sahib and other place in gurbani.

Pirthame On(g)kar So Dhun Poran Jagat Mae Raha ||

Fist ongkar was recited and that resosance created world and give nourishment to this world. (Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Dasam Granth Sahib)

Ongkar aad kathni anad, Khal Khand Khyal Gurbar Akaal ||

Fist ongkar was recited and that resosance created world - Yes but prior to the resonance waheguru was in nirgun form, which is beyond time but when ong resonance was recited the world came. In the resonance shiva, vishnu and brahma came to form hence the world.

But since form comes from the timeless God (nirgun) form itself has no originating point in time and space hence it is also infinite.

Remember Nirgun can remain without form (resonance) but sargun cannot be without nirgun. So the tuk is talking about how sargun aspect of creation arose - it's BEGINNING point of creation. Not God's beginning (Nirgun)

N.B Some words are impossible to describe as words by themselves are dependent on time so please ignore any discrepancies when I describe nirgun and also sargun. How can you define Nirgun and talk about how sargun arose from something timeless - arose itself implies a past tense!! All words get lost.. One gets mute.