Balanced View of Hindu-Sikh Shaster Vidiya

[taran0]

Make sure you guys watch the FULL Vimeo video as well, originall posted earlier in the thread, the shorter version has clearly been edited by the anti Nidar crew to suit there puropses, In the fuil video 30 mins or so, you'll see some intresting techniques...Sinking of body mass, misalingnments, discussion of sword types and their purposes etc etc... Funny how all of this was removed from the shortened clip...

cisco paji , I WISH i had edited that video....

if you follow the link you will see it is on vimeo on the account of "Jacob Harbord"

who is jacob harbord?well if you follow the link to the long film it says

A film by Jacob Harbord

Shot in the UK

Completed as a final project for the MA in Visual Anthropology, Granada Centre for Visual Anthropology, University of Manchester.

so please before you accuse us of editing the video please check the source.

Jacob did a fantastic job, cant take credit for his good work.

[Shastar Man]

wjkk wjkf,

This video is absolutely hilarious!

This is from Nidars website as part of his daily routine:-

'Cook a meal. This will be my main meal of the day, high in protein and carbohydrates', we all know where the meal is from then ....McDonalds!

Is this 'cult' out of the Gurdwara in London? Leicester or Leeds yet?

I can't understand why the committee's at these Gurdwara's are taking so much time.....just cancel the classes!

What is difficult in that?

Why would you allow people in the Gurdwara who have a anti-sikh agenda, similar to RSS ideology in the Gurdwara? Why?

Please a benti to the Gurdwara's concerned... boot this hindu-sikh cult out.....oops i forgot its not hindu-sikh anymore....its sanatan!

wjkk wjkf

[Babbar_Singhsta]

to get him out of the gurdware , they need proof that this man is harmful sikhi wise to youth or his chela is harmful sikhiwise. clear proof as in , a picture or a video showing these guys eating meat or saying dodgy hindu crap. if people go to their classes and get this proof , they can be kicked out of every gurdwara maharajs kirpa! they just need exposing. if we can come together , use our sources and just expose this snake for who he is really is , in picture or better yet , audio/video format SHOWING HIM activity doing anti sikhi actives such as eating meat , talking about bibiya dont need to keep kesh , doing about drinking sharaab , etc then we have something to stand on. until then we can't do nothing.

niddar has taken the hindu-sikh aspect out of his akhara's name and also updated his website taking out all the hindu bs... just to cover his back. but we need to PROVE he is wrong , not just say he is to committees.

[Cisco_Singh]

to get him out of the gurdware , they need proof that this man is harmful sikhi wise to youth or his chela is harmful sikhiwise. clear proof as in , a picture or a video showing these guys eating meat or saying dodgy hindu crap. if people go to their classes and get this proof , they can be kicked out of every gurdwara maharajs kirpa! they just need exposing. if we can come together , use our sources and just expose this snake for who he is really is , in picture or better yet , audio/video format SHOWING HIM activity doing anti sikhi actives such as eating meat , talking about bibiya dont need to keep kesh , doing about drinking sharaab , etc then we have something to stand on. until then we can't do nothing.

niddar has taken the hindu-sikh aspect out of his akhara's name and also updated his website taking out all the hindu bs... just to cover his back. but we need to PROVE he is wrong , not just say he is to committees.

BTW.. I agree that SV classes should not be allowed to be run in Gurdwaras. For that matter any classes on any subject whic are counter to Sikhi beliefs or ethos and also where the teachers/people responsible do not follow Sikhi lifestyles. By the same note you'd probably find 95% of all Gurdwara committe members also being drinkers and meat eaters, should they all be removed from office as well and repalced only with Amritdhari Sikhs who follow rehit?

As fasr as eating meat being anti-sikhi...Akal takht hukamnama has already cleared this issue and it's not anti-sikhi to eat meat. It is however not right to eat meat from random sources such as KFC, McDONALDS, supermarket etc...If your going to eat meat then Jhatka it yourself and eat it or at least get it from a verified jhatka source.

Personally the Bibia and kesh thing, I've never ever heard this mentioned directly by Nidar Singh so it's an unproven allegation, I have however heard him say it's traditionally Bibia didnt wear keskis or dastaars... Which also is a matter of interpretation amongst the panth with only certain Jathebandis claiming Keski is a Kakkar..when the general accepted rehit is Kes as a kakkar.

[Cisco_Singh]

I practice gatka and I agree with you on that point, but for me his ideology and type of students be produced is alarming. Most with Sanatan mat who cringe at any ideology associated with Khalsa being Niara and "Jab eh gaye bipran ki reet, main na karoun inh ki parteet".

As for his martial art I keep going back and forth whether I consider him to be a good martial artist or not. I would have to see him fight against a bjj/escrima/kali fighter to really know.

Endorsements may show gatka lacks but it doesn't show that he is the real deal, there is a great deal more needed. This is a half a@@@ed way to legitimize him.

Can you provide the full 30 min video and the edorsement links? The 10 min video was uploaded by the creator of the documentary.

The full Vimeo video was posted earlier in the thread, the link is here VIMEO

The Dog Brothers/Zirger Academy review of the Toronto Seminar is HERE

The rest of the stuff with Pat O Malley/Rapid Arnis, Maul Mornie you can find on Youtube.

But anyway like I was saying if your looking for religious development or spiritual development your not going to find it in SV classes, go somewhere else for that.

[taran0]

So what your saying cisco is that there is no spirituality or Dharam in Nidar's classes

and for once I agree with you

[chatanga]

fateh all , please watch this video

<<< Niddar goes to mcdonalds!!! and his chele the one that teachers in leeds is at KFC!!! u know that ther gonna be eating... these people are nothing but egoistical nihang wanna be's. real nihangs from the dal in india are sarbloh bibiek!!!! these guys are a bunch of clowns... its funny how their food is hidden in the video. lol

Lets start a campaign to be allowed to do jhatka in the UK instead. That would be much more beneficial to the Sikh community.

BTW.. I agree that SV classes should not be allowed to be run in Gurdwaras. For that matter any classes on any subject whic are counter to Sikhi beliefs or ethos and also where the teachers/people responsible do not follow Sikhi lifestyles. By the same note you'd probably find 95% of all Gurdwara committe members also being drinkers and meat eaters, should they all be removed from office as well and repalced only with Amritdhari Sikhs who follow rehit?

Cisco bro, what survey did you take to assume that 95% committee members drink and/or eat meat?

there are 20 members of my local gurdwara committee so that must mean at least 18 of the 20 do this.

[Cisco_Singh]

Lets start a campaign to be allowed to do jhatka in the UK instead. That would be much more beneficial to the Sikh community.

Cisco bro, what survey did you take to assume that 95% committee members drink and/or eat meat?

there are 20 members of my local gurdwara committee so that must mean at least 18 of the 20 do this.

No survey just observations of commitees and individuals I have come across that are associated to various Gurdwara management committees . Maybe 95% was an exaggerated figure . But it's definitely larger than 50 % of management committee members !

Why do you think we have so many issues with Gurdwara party halls serving meat and alcohol ?? Its because the management commitees and some sections of the sangat support and condone these activities...

Anyway back on topic, Shastar Vidiya classes are first and foremost martial arts classes your not going there for religious education, spirituality lessons. You are there to learn a combat system and the history and tradition that the system is derived from.

It is not historically a Sikh system, Sikhs did not invent the system although they were amongst the latest custodians and practioners of the system. Instead of crying about what Nidar Singh might do or not do in his private life which is his own business you should consider whether or not you feel what he has to teach is beneficial for you to learn and preserve. Pretty simple really...

The rest of the martial arts world is starting to take notice as has already been mentioned several times... I still haven't seen anyone produce real evidence of the supposed shastar vidiya akharas in India or demos or videos of the system they teach .

[singh135]

What evidence is there of its authenticity?

Looks like hocus pocus,

Just because some says its the reAl deal is not evidence since there loads of martial artists who think its lame also.

[taran0]

Anyway back on topic, Shastar Vidiya classes are first and foremost martial arts classes your not going there for religious education, spirituality lessons. You are there to learn a combat system and the history and tradition that the system is derived from.

I think what concerns people is that once someone starts to go to these classes there seems to be;

- a gradual disintegration of spirituality and dharam

- abandoning of paath or kirtan : as if it is something that is not needed as a warrior and only for saintly people

- they start to distance from their sangat and close friends into an isolated group of people from the akhara

- have a belief that other mainstream Sikhs are in some way inferior or are living a British lie and do not know the real Sikhi which is sanatan

- a gradual change in turban style and behaviour to mimic that of their new leader ; a very cocky and arrogant attitude

- they seem to propagate this myth that all other mainstream Sikhs are mindless brainwashed extremists

- a tendency to bring up controversial topics just to provoke a reaction

- some will start to partake in alcohol or casual marijuana use

- will not accept any criticism aimed towards Nidar

there are a few others but it seems cisco you have proven the point i have been trying to make all along.....

if Nidar's shastarvidiya classes have no spirituality or dharam then they cannot be the "Martial way of Guru Gobind SIngh ji"

as sometimes Guru would abandon all logic of warfare and traditional battle tactics by sitting down to do Asa Di Vaar while in battle situations

and sending his sons out to fight knowing full well there was no chance they could win the battle, instead they conquered the world

by sacrificing this body, but never abandoning the light of allegiance and love to God.

how can a man who says there is no need for warriors to do prayer be a Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh ji who said in bhai Nand Lals Tankhanama that a Sikh should not eat without doing japji, should not pass evening without rehraas, and should not sleep without doing Kirtan Sohila.

Then there is the most famous story of Bhai Dalla who egotistically kept boasting to Guru Gobind Singh ji about his great warriors. Guru Gobind Singh ji asked him to present his warriors so that he could test his gun, dalla and his warriors stalled and noone came forward, but two Singhs who were doing seva in the Langar came running offering themselves as targets, even fighting each other for the chance. showing dalla that it was not great warriors but those who were willing to give their head, wealth and all in return for the Love of their beloved.

This story reminds me of the Shastarvidia going on about their ancient "original" art and last Sikh Warrior status symbol, referring to their many interview battles in the magazines and newspaper articles.

It is this lack of Dharam and spirituality which is the problem with Nidar! and why we advise our young people to stay away from him.

Guru Gobind Singh ji made us Sant-Sipahi

Guru Hargobind Sahib ji wore two Swords - Miri and Piri - teaching the Sikhs that both need to go hand in hand, Spirituality and Sikh warfare go hand in hand.

the bola of the Nihang Singhs goes....

Bani Bana Pankh Pashano, Singh Guru ka Panchi Jano, pehlo bani fir bana

Spirituality and uniform, recognise as two wings, Know a sikh of the guru as a bird that can fly, but first must come Spirituality and then Uniform