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Do you think there is a widening gap of sorts between amritdharis and non-amritdharis? I was reading these comments left on a news site and this person repeatedly called Amritdharis drug sellers etc. It seems he is saying that amrit is not necessary and amritdharis have a violent agenda in wearing the Kirpan. Again if you think about it many non-amritdharis (this is my experience) seem to always say there is no need to wear the Kirpan etc. if u have Bhagti and they seem to stereotype keshdhari and Shastardhari Singhs. What do you think?

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Kullykhalsa ji, you bought up very good point. I have seen this myself in my local gurdwara, you have holier than thou attitude singhs sitting in a langar yapping away like ladies while mone non amr

Only a fool would allow the panth to be divided in such a way!! Look for similarities in your fellow brothers and sisters rather than differences all the time.

I believe there is no 'right' or 'wrong' party to this issue. In my experience, both Amritdharis and non-Amritdharis have misconceptions about what Sikhi is, not just relating to Kirpan, and these thi

I think, what do you think?

I think it is a growing issue. Might be good to keep tabs on it. Many people do not know what amrit is, or the importance of amrit today. They suffer under delusions, and think it is right to stereotype amritdharis. But again it might be a question of reaching out to these people and explaining that there is more to Sikhi than meets the eye. There is more to Amrit than meets the eye. Most modern day Sikhs, who grow up in "modern" non-Gurmat houses and are "proud" of their Indian heritage seem to associate it with extremism especially in a post-Khalistan world, where the Indian government's narrative is oft repeated.

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I think it's one of those things where people pass a judgement, without having experienced it...all based on a third person's experience.

Life doesn't work like that.

I genuinely do not think that one can understand the bond between a mother and a child without actually having experienced it. One could have experienced how it is like, to have a loving mother (if one's fortunate enough)...but cannot understand what the mother feels until the woman becomes a mother...or in men's case - a father.

Similarly, until one starts contemplating upon Naam (which one can only get after being blessed with Amrit), one starts to notice very seemingly-trivial things in life and starts understanding the bond between themselves and the SATGURU.

The point I intend to make is that until, those people who pass judgements over Amritdharis, don't become Amritdhari...they cannot understand what it actually is like to be one.

If they still do have such views, it's their minds and their karams.

Satgur Saheb is generous enough, to bring the deserving, close to Himself.

Those that are not Amritdhari...It's THEIR karam...We shouldn't bother about what someone else's view about us is....because deep within....everyone knows what they are...(not spirituality-wise, but character-wise).

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I think it's one of those things where people pass a judgement, without having experienced it...all based on a third person's experience.

Life doesn't work like that.

I genuinely do not think that one can understand the bond between a mother and a child without actually having experienced it. One could have experienced how it is like, to have a loving mother (if one's fortunate enough)...but cannot understand what the mother feels until the woman becomes a mother...or in men's case - a father.

Similarly, until one starts contemplating upon Naam (which one can only get after being blessed with Amrit), one starts to notice very seemingly-trivial things in life and starts understanding the bond between themselves and the SATGURU.

The point I intend to make is that until, those people who pass judgements over Amritdharis, don't become Amritdhari...they cannot understand what it actually is like to be one.

If they still do have such views, it's their minds and their karams.

Satgur Saheb is generous enough bring the deserving close to Himself.

Those that are not Amritdhari...It's THEIR karam...We shouldn't bother about what someone else's view about us is....because deep within....everyone knows what they are...(not spirituality-wise, but character-wise).

I agree with that but I just had the thought. Is the judgement due to us failing in our duty to preach aspects of Sikhi to our fellow Sikhs? How many Sikhs are there that always join the anti-Kirpan bandwagon. You would think they would at least respect their own faith.

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Singhs who are from a mona background seem ok to me and being one myself I get on with these singhs, the problem is either singhs who were amritdhari from a young age but this is probably just because they can't relate to moneh in any way. The biggest idiots are the ones who did all sorts in the past but after coming into Sikhi turn into judgemental fools, they go over the top & think it is thier place to preach or 'save' moneh, the problem being they don't have enough Kumai or gyan to have any real impact & just come across as jacked up fools! Unfortunately these are the same people that want to run camps and open centres to 'save' the next generation. Singhs with kamai & gyan naturally shy away from such positions but I think they should be running camps, I know some do & also should come forward to run guru ghars rather then the local masand chor uncle ji

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Singhs who are from a mona background seem ok to me and being one myself I get on with these singhs, the problem is either singhs who were amritdhari from a young age but this is probably just because they can't relate to moneh in any way. The biggest idiots are the ones who did all sorts in the past but after coming into Sikhi turn into judgemental fools, they go over the top & think it is thier place to preach or 'save' moneh, the problem being they don't have enough Kumai or gyan to have any real impact & just come across as jacked up fools! Unfortunately these are the same people that want to run camps and open centres to 'save' the next generation. Singhs with kamai & gyan naturally shy away from such positions but I think they should be running camps, I know some do & also should come forward to run guru ghars rather then the local masand chor uncle ji

U do have a point in my opinion. I agree with ur point on hypocrites.

But then are there more hypocrites at a given time than Gursikhs, real Gursikhs?

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Singhs who are from a mona background seem ok to me and being one myself I get on with these singhs, the problem is either singhs who were amritdhari from a young age but this is probably just because they can't relate to moneh in any way. The biggest idiots are the ones who did all sorts in the past but after coming into Sikhi turn into judgemental fools, they go over the top & think it is thier place to preach or 'save' moneh, the problem being they don't have enough Kumai or gyan to have any real impact & just come across as jacked up fools! Unfortunately these are the same people that want to run camps and open centres to 'save' the next generation. Singhs with kamai & gyan naturally shy away from such positions but I think they should be running camps, I know some do & also should come forward to run guru ghars rather then the local masand chor uncle ji

Very good post.

I think it is because of lots of low quality amritdharies as RKK mentions that put the dirt (mehl) in the cup,- which ends up discolouring all.

On the other hand, there are many non amritdharies and monai that are much more spiritual and connected with the naam from within.

I disagree that you have to be amritdhari to experience the anand of naam as stated by RKK, as there are many monai that think and function in a more gurmat and nirgun manner than some fellow amritdharis.

U do have a point in my opinion. I agree with ur point on hypocrites.

But then are there more hypocrites at a given time than Gursikhs, real Gursikhs?

How easy is it to find a REAL gursikh from a crowd of sikhs ???

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On the other hand, there are many non amritdharies and monai that are much more spiritual and connected with the naam from within.

I disagree that you have to be amritdhari to experience the anand of naam as stated by RKK, as there are many monai that think and function in a more gurmat and nirgun manner than some fellow amritdharis.

Sikhs that cut hair don't have naam. Naam is not easy to attain. To get Naam, to be in Naam, to be one with Naam, all Hukams must be followed.

Being Amritdhari does not mean automatically, they have Naam, but Amritdharis are a step closer.

Many people in this world are spiritual, Buddhist, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews etc, but they don't have Naam because this is only given by Satguru. And Satguru only gives this if a Sikh follows every Hukam. Naam is not attained by become spiritual (looking for liberation, heaven, paradise, etc), but by following Hukam.

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Very good post.

I think it is because of lots of low quality amritdharies as RKK mentions that put the dirt (mehl) in the cup,- which ends up discolouring all.

On the other hand, there are many non amritdharies and monai that are much more spiritual and connected with the naam from within.

I disagree that you have to be amritdhari to experience the anand of naam as stated by RKK, as there are many monai that think and function in a more gurmat and nirgun manner than some fellow amritdharis.

How easy is it to find a REAL gursikh from a crowd of sikhs ???

Lets say their actions speak for themselves but only after close scrutiny and help from Waheguru can we ascertain that.

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Sikhs that cut hair don't have naam. Naam is not easy to attain. To get Naam, to be in Naam, to be one with Naam, all Hukams must be followed.

Being Amritdhari does not mean automatically, they have Naam, but Amritdharis are a step closer.

Many people in this world are spiritual, Buddhist, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews etc, but they don't have Naam because this is only given by Satguru. And Satguru only gives this if a Sikh follows every Hukam. Naam is not attained by become spiritual (looking for liberation, heaven, paradise, etc), but by following Hukam.

OK, this means we must all have different concepts of naam.

In your best and shortest description, how would you define naam ?

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OK, this means we must all have different concepts of naam.

In your best and shortest description, how would you define naam ?

We accept Guru Sahib as our Guru. We also need to follow his hukam as well. Then and only then will our Bhagti have any effect.

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Bhagat Sain was a Sikh of Bhagat Ramanand, he followed his hukam on prema bhagti and lo Akal Purakh took his form and did his duty for him (Bhagat Sain) when Bhagat Ji was absorbed in Kirtan. Hence in that way we are Sikhs of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, who came in ten forms. We must follow his Hukam like Bhagat Sain followed Bhagat Ramanand Ji's. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

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