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Taksal faction under Baba Harnam Singh has NOT changed Gurbani

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Veerji, my last peshi was with Taksaali Panj Pyaare Sahibs so I doubt I have any issues with Taksaal. I was merely pointing out what to me is a very visible anomaly between two editions of the same Pothi sahib, but I did not make any inferences or conclusions as to who or what or why it happened.

Bhaji, that is fine, who am i to question your credentials. I mistook that for a quote from gurvah, who's posts look like he has issues with the taksal, and somehow mixed your name in. apologies.

Bhaji can you explain what the "jap neesan " means, its the 1st time i has ever seen it.

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here are another 2, the first of which has 2 lots of 2 dandia after "jap" attachicon.gifMoolmantar_guruarjan.jpg

This looks to be the opening of the Kartarpuri Bir which our Taksali Veers accept as scribed by Bhai Gurdas and supervised by Guru Arjun Dev Ji. Some even say this Mool Mantar is written by Guru Sahib himself.

If this is the case, the alterations to Gutkeh or Saroops whether done at the time of Baba Harnam Singh or Sant Jarnail Singh cannot be accepted as correct.

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Bhaji, that is fine, who am i to question your credentials. I mistook that for a quote from gurvah, who's posts look like he has issues with the taksal, and somehow mixed your name in. apologies.

Bhaji can you explain what the "jap neesan " means, its the 1st time i has ever seen it.

Koi Gal Nahi Veerji :hug:

I'm not sure about the exact meaning of 'Jap Neesan', maybe some learned Gurmukh soul can explain what it means jeo..

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Bhaji, that is fine, who am i to question your credentials. I mistook that for a quote from gurvah, who's posts look like he has issues with the taksal, and somehow mixed your name in. apologies.

Bhaji can you explain what the "jap neesan " means, its the 1st time i has ever seen it.

I don't have a problem with the conept of DDT, hav huge respect for the Sant Jarnail Singh, S. Kartar Singh, S. Gurbachan Singh etc, but think that a minority of today's DDT are giving the rest a bad name.

I don't really care if you read mool mantar long or short, read reharas short or long, read or dont read raagmala, belive keski is kakkar or not, hey, eat meat or not, but please do not go around preaching that is the way it should be, and if anyone other jathebandi does something which doesnt fit in with DDT marayda (even if it is in line with Akal takhat) it's beadbi.

You have giani takhur singh (patiala) preahing that people who only read mool mantar to gurparsad will go to hell.... WHAT? read gurbani and got hell??????? how can even BE right?

And then he said General Subeg singh was shaheed in his laps, when he left golden temple complex 4 days before he even got shaheed. Giani Takhur singh claimed that he became an aatmik shaheed first... first time ive heard that your aatmaa dies?

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I don't really care if you read mool mantar long or short, read reharas short or long, read or dont read raagmala, belive keski is kakkar or not, hey, eat meat or not, but please do not go around preaching that is the way it should be, and if anyone other jathebandi does something which doesnt fit in with DDT marayda (even if it is in line with Akal takhat) it's beadbi.

OK bro i see where you are coming from, and i agree that as a panth we have to accept that there is diversity in the panth, and that we are not automatically right just because we do something, or dont do something that the other sampdaye or jathas do/dont.

Wherever there are issues in the Panth, we should not only look but ACCEPT the verdict given by Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

There are diehard minoritys in every faction of the Sikh Panth today, but Sri Akal Sahai, we will some day soon, accept each other for being different, so this goes out to all the "gang" members.

I havent heard what Giani Thakur Singh has said, but lets look at the Mool Mantar issuse objectivley.

What has really got my goat on this topic, is that it is actually an excellent topic for discussion, as to what the dandia state, how they determine the status of that particular line, alone and within the context of the wider text, but no. Someone decided to have a go at Baba Harnam Singh with it, without being objective, but narrow-minded.

Brothers and sister, bring issues like this to the forum to discuss and learn, not to vilify anyone.

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This looks to be the opening of the Kartarpuri Bir which our Taksali Veers accept as scribed by Bhai Gurdas and supervised by Guru Arjun Dev Ji. Some even say this Mool Mantar is written by Guru Sahib himself.

If this is the case, the alterations to Gutkeh or Saroops whether done at the time of Baba Harnam Singh or Sant Jarnail Singh cannot be accepted as correct.

With the Kartarpuri Bir, if i remember correctly, 10th Guru made some changes, so although we can lookto it for a excellent guide, can we say that it is 100% correct version of what Aad Guru is today? The Damdami Bir is the guide but failing that why not reference the Kartarpuri Bir.

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It is correct that there are differences between this Kartarpuri Bir and the present SGGSJi.

It is however quite a stretch to say Guru Gobind Singh Ji altered the Mool Mantar, which is not something that is ever been claimed before, and was not agreed with by Sant Gurbachan Singh, who as Prabjot Singh has shown, has written Japji Sahib the correct way.

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Clarfication:

It is not printing of Saroops, but of Senchi Sahibs (volumes of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj).

The article from Sikh24 is incorrect.

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It is however quite a stretch to say Guru Gobind Singh Ji altered the Mool Mantar,

yes i dont think there was any alteration, but hopefully someone will furnish us with an answer.

Maybe Khalistan Zindabad could find out.

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This is why all should strongly protect the idea that SGPC should be the only one to take care of printing mahraj saroops. No jathanbandi or management or society should be allowed to print gurbani saroops whether its taksal or Satnam trust from Canada.

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This is why all should strongly protect the idea that SGPC should be the only one to take care of printing mahraj saroops. No jathanbandi or management or society should be allowed to print gurbani saroops whether its taksal or Satnam trust from Canada.

Agreed although I don't particularly 100% support SGPC in other decisions.

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This is why all should strongly protect the idea that SGPC should be the only one to take care of printing mahraj saroops. No jathanbandi or management or society should be allowed to print gurbani saroops whether its taksal or Satnam trust from Canada.

I didn't know Satnam Trust printed Saroops? This is the first time I've heard of this.

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Agreed although I don't particularly 100% support SGPC in other decisions.

Agreed that most of their decisions are flawed and political biased. In some cases they do okayish job such as taking care of running of gurughars. Let say I am a farmer and tomorrow I die, I be more happy to leave land to sgpc rather than to other Sikh institution. Why? Because I know sgpc will stay and their leaders will change often which sadly is not the case of many jatehbandeya.

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The moolmantar written by sant gurbachan Singh and baba Thakur Singh has the same version as what dhumma has done, the article is incorrect.

There are various versions as per pointed out by singhfauja

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