BBC Documentary on illegal immigration from Punjab

[VanHelsingh]

@ HSD2 - I agree with all you've written in your last post. But you try and tell prospective migrants from back home what you told me, and you'll get the same reaction I mentioned earlier. It seems they want to see the problems (in terms of a poor economy, no jobs, etc) with their own eyes, only then will they believe what they're being told.

[HSD2]

@ HSD2 - I agree with all you've written in your last post. But you try and tell prospective migrants from back home what you told me, and you'll get the same reaction I mentioned earlier. It seems they want to see the problems (in terms of a poor economy, no jobs, etc) with their own eyes, only then will they believe what they're being told.

I know. But the least we can do is make enough noise that the stupid East Punjabis might actually stop to think. EPs are like toddlers. Want stupid things and then cry when they get what they want and it's not what they hyped it up to be.

The fact they cant even ask themselves if England is so good, why arent the visa sellers and migration lawyers living in Britain rather than just taking their money and sticking them on a boat shows how thick they are. They hand all that money over which goes straight into the hands of people traffickers who then give Russian/Arab/European criminals a cut. If they are lucky to make it the UK without being killed, locked up or left in a ship to drift in the Atlantic (it happens) they come here and work for peanuts. They dont get benefits but work for sikhs/muslims/goreh who want extensions built for cheap labour. Most Muslims are unemployed and love the idea of something for nothing. So what the hell do these Pindus get out of coming to the UK?

They would be better off putting on some lipstick and high heels and walking around Westminster at night. They'd get more money and end up less buggered.

Does anyone think it's worth lobbying Government/MPs for an amnesty where all these guys come forward and get flown back to India? It is clear UK Sikhs cant be bothered to look after them and at least that way these guys could hunt down the people traffickers for a refund.

[JasSinghKhalsa]

My personal opinion - I think most of it is due to a huge economic divide in India and a huge pool of black money.

(a). $15K for coming to Britain - 8L INR, can't a person do some business with this money in India? Probably no, because they won't stand any chance of competition compared to people with crores of INR of black money invested in the same business. People who finally decide to move probably explore all options before moving overseas.

(b). Both Punjab Govt. and Indian Govt. have no interest or probably negative interest in industralisation of Punjab. Indian Govt. at the back of its mind knows someday or another, this land is not ours and is forcibly acquired, someday or another, we will have to leave this land for Khalistan, so exploit it as much as you can, no need to motivate any industrialisation of this land. Collect 100% of taxes from people of this land, give back 5-7% and make huge noises as done a huge charity. At one time, PTL/Punwire/JCT/Ranbaxy etc. were there in Mohalli and Mohalli was seen as next business/industrial hub of Northern India, however is no longer an industrial hub. There is no Punwire/PTL today. Only a couple of IT companies, one of it is the most pissing-off Quark. Hosiery industry in Ludhiana struggles with power issues. MNCs who wanted to set-up offices in Mohalli are discouraged. Sikh industrialists from Maharashtra who set-up plants in Punjab face issues with weekly HAFTA culture from goons of Prakash Singh Badal and Sukhbir Badal.

[dalsingh101]

East Punjabis turn their noses up at the thought of it, but this kind of factory work is the exact thing many grandparents did in the UK so that their kids could get an education and not have to travel the world looking for work. The Japanese, Germans, Koreans and now the Chinese all had a generation that slogged it out in the factories so that their kids wouldnt be poor and have to be immigrants in someone else's country to have a better life. What is wrong with East Punjabis that they dont get this?

I tell you what plays a big part in this! This imagined 'greatness' to many pindus have where they believe they are 'sons of the lord of the manor' and thus beneath doing such work back home. But they'll come here and work like dogs in cement no problem.

Lack of humility can be an issue. And this is yet another consequence of filling ignorant people's heads up with illusions of grandeur which are far removed from the truth/reality.

[dalsingh101]

Had a thought I had to share.

My parent's generation (from back home), for all their faults never baulked at doing farm work or construction work back home - even if it wasn't for a massive fortune. So they didn't consider themselves above such things back home. Contrast that to the jumped up crap we get from apnay back home nowadays.

[West London Singh]

Had a thought I had to share.

My parent's generation (from back home), for all their faults never baulked at doing farm work or construction work back home - even if it wasn't for a massive fortune. So they didn't consider themselves above such things back home. Contrast that to the jumped up crap we get from apnay back home nowadays.

Whats your parents generation got to do with it ?

You might be working like a girl in an office but most of us Punjabi Sikhs are not only not but we are working in conditions far worse than what your parents generation had to go through. To pay for my education and research I work manual jobs through temp agencies for minimun wage. It would be an understatement if I desribed these jobs as back-breaking. They are really really hard manual jobs. In your parents generation the unions would not have allowed such conditions to exist for a worker and if they did, they would be suitably compensated in money. Whilst the majority of the people I tend to work with are eastern-european there are also a fair number of Sikhs from Punjab. They work harder today than they ever did in any previous generation.

Go to Canada. Look at the recent immigrants from Punjab there. These people are without a doubt the hardest workers in the world today. They're famous for it. They work far harder today than they did in your parents generation.

In Punjab also. Whilst acknowledging how drugs and ourselves (the way we have teased them with our big party receptions etc) have had a negative effect, things are not as bad as we sometimes like to suggest. Generally, the farmer's children are working at the same level of hardness as they did in previous generations. The only thing different now is that the sons and daughters of the chamars have stopped working for the jatt farmer. In my grandparents and parents generation it was the chamar and chamari that came and did most of the work. They no longer do so and so the farmer gets the bihari to do it instead. Things ain't that much different to how they were before. Without realising it, we've become those moaning old men and women we used to laugh about on TV. The kind that think everything about today is bad and how everything yesteryear was so much better.

The only thing thats changed.....for the worse...is us.

For those of you who, like me, had your family come over in the 1950's. Like me, it was likely your family came over illegally by assuming a false pakistani passport and sailing from Karachi. For those of you who had family come over after the introduction of controls in the early 1960's it is likely your family came over illegaly by someone in your family falsely assuming the positions of son/daughter/ wife of someone else. Nothing has changed. The only thing that has changed is the class of Punjabi that the new immigrant meets in England. The level of humanity. Our grandparents and parents were met with a community of Sikhs that went out of their way to help their fellow man. Unfortunately for the current lot of immigrants, they are met with us : The most miserable, self-centered, self-loathing bunch of complainers the world has ever witnessed. A community never happy unless we put the next man down. I pity the Sikh immigrant that comes here to England. Not because they can't make it in England but because they have to meet us. They'll look around them and see settled Poles helping new arrivals from Poland into work. They'll see Pakistanis helping new arrivals from Pakistan into the shop trade. They'll see settled Bangladeshis helping new arrivals from Bangladesh into the restaurant trade. They'll see settled Afghan Sikhs using their bridarari system to settle the next man up in his own shop, who will then himself have a duty to set the next one up. Then they'll see their own turn their noses up at them. They'll be raided each and every day by the Border Force led by teams of their own people. They will be treated like rubbish by their own people.

There is nothing wrong with either England or the new arrivals from Punjab. There is everything in the world wrong with us , the established British Sikh community. We, and our attitude, is a disgrace.

[HSD2]

My personal opinion - I think most of it is due to a huge economic divide in India and a huge pool of black money.

(a). $15K for coming to Britain - 8L INR, can't a person do some business with this money in India? Probably no, because they won't stand any chance of competition compared to people with crores of INR of black money invested in the same business. People who finally decide to move probably explore all options before moving overseas.

(b). Both Punjab Govt. and Indian Govt. have no interest or probably negative interest in industralisation of Punjab. Indian Govt. at the back of its mind knows someday or another, this land is not ours and is forcibly acquired, someday or another, we will have to leave this land for Khalistan, so exploit it as much as you can, no need to motivate any industrialisation of this land. Collect 100% of taxes from people of this land, give back 5-7% and make huge noises as done a huge charity. At one time, PTL/Punwire/JCT/Ranbaxy etc. were there in Mohalli and Mohalli was seen as next business/industrial hub of Northern India, however is no longer an industrial hub. There is no Punwire/PTL today. Only a couple of IT companies, one of it is the most pissing-off Quark. Hosiery industry in Ludhiana struggles with power issues. MNCs who wanted to set-up offices in Mohalli are discouraged. Sikh industrialists from Maharashtra who set-up plants in Punjab face issues with weekly HAFTA culture from goons of Prakash Singh Badal and Sukhbir Badal.

The thing is that they mortgage or sell the land to get the money. Either be a farmer or dont be. Be greatful for the land and refuse to sell to anyone, especially non-Punjabis. Or sell the land and take the whole family to somewhere that needs immigrants. Britain doesnt need unskilled labour.

As for the Hindustani Government, they are sinister but not smart. If they honestly think that NRIs will have to come back one day they are kidding themselves. The world is a big place and the last part many Sikhs here in the UK would go is India. I remember a few years ago Badal was upset at how the Gujis had built up Gujirat with NRI money. He tried to do the same and didnt get a penny. No NRI will invest in Punjab with Badal in power, with a police force who are a law unto themselves and well connected people running around taking what they want 'cos they deserve it'. NRIs have all the time in world. Judging by the desperation of East Punjabis to leave EP and how they believe any stupid promise of a better future in return for their money I think it's up to East Punjabis to sort themselves out.

[dalsingh101]

You might be working like a girl in an office but most of us Punjabi Sikhs are not only not but we are working in conditions far worse than what your parents generation had to go through. To pay for my education and research I work manual jobs through temp agencies for minimun wage. It would be an understatement if I desribed these jobs as back-breaking. They are really really hard manual jobs. In your parents generation the unions would not have allowed such conditions to exist for a worker and if they did, they would be suitably compensated in money. Whilst the majority of the people I tend to work with are eastern-european there are also a fair number of Sikhs from Punjab. They work harder today than they ever did in any previous generation.

I funded myself through uni by working in warehouses - for Panjabis who aren't exactly 'on point' when it comes to workers rights (but I still had fun and appreciate how those days taught me so much). I'm well educated, but I still do stints on building sites (because I'm a man like that). We know your father/grandfather (??) sucked up to some British ex-military type to get work in some factory or would have ended up scrubbing toilets in Heathrow or minicab driving like other unskilled hogis.

I've worked with the older generation on sites and witnessed the trade myself growing up as the majority of work for Sikhs in East London was construction in the 70s/80s. Your family had to leave this area because they didn't have the skills to stick around and moved to West London (your own admissions). Plus I've worked with todays freshies in Sikh firms. To make out that old schoolers had it easy just highlights you how ignorant you are. They worked 7 days a week, including evenings. On sites in the day and private work at night. That's how they got set up here. Again if you think that is easy, it says a lot about you.

And despite all of your rantings about the established generation here, I see relatively recently arrived faujis who've established themselves in a few years (lucky them) turn around and abuse the hell out of a next fauji they hire ALL THE TIME. They are ALL jat, so maybe they are just doing what they are culturally accustomed to doing to 'village menials' amongst themselves now?

The big thing people like to ignore here is how our own people are too damn ignorant to learn a trade over there, BEFORE they 'bootha chuck' and smuggle their unskilled selves here. They ALL know they will probably be doing construction work here but are to damn lazy, ignorant, jumped up to learn a trade before they jump on the boat or the back of a lorry. Explain that stupidity!

[HSD2]

Whats your parents generation got to do with it ?

You might be working like a girl in an office but most of us Punjabi Sikhs are not only not but we are working in conditions far worse than what your parents generation had to go through. To pay for my education and research I work manual jobs through temp agencies for minimun wage. It would be an understatement if I desribed these jobs as back-breaking. They are really really hard manual jobs. In your parents generation the unions would not have allowed such conditions to exist for a worker and if they did, they would be suitably compensated in money. Whilst the majority of the people I tend to work with are eastern-european there are also a fair number of Sikhs from Punjab. They work harder today than they ever did in any previous generation.

Go to Canada. Look at the recent immigrants from Punjab there. These people are without a doubt the hardest workers in the world today. They're famous for it. They work far harder today than they did in your parents generation.

In Punjab also. Whilst acknowledging how drugs and ourselves (the way we have teased them with our big party receptions etc) have had a negative effect, things are not as bad as we sometimes like to suggest. Generally, the farmer's children are working at the same level of hardness as they did in previous generations. The only thing different now is that the sons and daughters of the chamars have stopped working for the jatt farmer. In my grandparents and parents generation it was the chamar and chamari that came and did most of the work. They no longer do so and so the farmer gets the bihari to do it instead. Things ain't that much different to how they were before. Without realising it, we've become those moaning old men and women we used to laugh about on TV. The kind that think everything about today is bad and how everything yesteryear was so much better.

The only thing thats changed.....for the worse...is us.

For those of you who, like me, had your family come over in the 1950's. Like me, it was likely your family came over illegally by assuming a false pakistani passport and sailing from Karachi. For those of you who had family come over after the introduction of controls in the early 1960's it is likely your family came over illegaly by someone in your family falsely assuming the positions of son/daughter/ wife of someone else. Nothing has changed. The only thing that has changed is the class of Punjabi that the new immigrant meets in England. The level of humanity. Our grandparents and parents were met with a community of Sikhs that went out of their way to help their fellow man. Unfortunately for the current lot of immigrants, they are met with us : The most miserable, self-centered, self-loathing bunch of complainers the world has ever witnessed. A community never happy unless we put the next man down. I pity the Sikh immigrant that comes here to England. Not because they can't make it in England but because they have to meet us. They'll look around them and see settled Poles helping new arrivals from Poland into work. They'll see Pakistanis helping new arrivals from Pakistan into the shop trade. They'll see settled Bangladeshis helping new arrivals from Bangladesh into the restaurant trade. They'll see settled Afghan Sikhs using their bridarari system to settle the next man up in his own shop, who will then himself have a duty to set the next one up. Then they'll see their own turn their noses up at them. They'll be raided each and every day by the Border Force led by teams of their own people. They will be treated like rubbish by their own people.

There is nothing wrong with either England or the new arrivals from Punjab. There is everything in the world wrong with us , the established British Sikh community. We, and our attitude, is a disgrace.

You ask what his parents have to do with it before going on about how different generations are different.

His parents generation in Punjab much like my grandfather's generation got on with it, whether it was in Punjab or England. There were no unions for Sikhs in Punjab back then and not all of them understood employees rights in the UK either. My grandad told me about someone from his village who went to the Midlands to work in a factory. The supervisor asked him if he wanted to do overtime. He said sure. 40 hours later he was still there. Hadnt gone home, hadnt stopped, just kept going. I doubt someone from my generation would do something like that. Also, to accuse our grandparents of illegal immigration is wrong. Plenty got here legally and had to avoid things like national service because they were so legal.

As for your little speech about England, it has changed massively. Only a fool would think that Canada, a land with massive living space and educated population could compare to the bleak overcrowded isle packed with unemployed uneducated goreh and musis that is Britain. How can UK Sikhs feel pity for people who come here with the main ambition of getting enough money to build a big house back in EP with an Indian Airforce MIG model on the roof? Are they high on Disney movies? They dont want the money to build hospitals in EP. They dont want to build better schools in EP. They dont want to improve EP at all. Yet they still come expecting milk and honey even when every objective indicator says the opposite. It's like a toddler going up to Jimmy Saville expecting a lollypop and getting something else. So many UK Sikhs want out of the UK but EPs keep coming here expecting us to wipe their backsides. I know people with engineering degrees who can only get jobs in Sainsburys here but are offered crazy money to go abroad. And they go abroad - who can blame them? Over 50% of muslim men in the UK are unemployed. There are white homes where 3 generations have never held a job. Who wants to pay taxes to support them? Sikhs are net contributors to HM Treasury and give per capita more than anyone else apart from the Jews. But that wont last as so many Sikhs are leaving. The immigrants who came here in the 60s are leaving when their educated children establish themselves abroad. What hopes do these EPs have? The races you mention have turned their areas into nothing more than ghettos. Overusing council services has created a strain that wont last. Are you happy to see you local school go down the drain because they dont have the resources to teach all the children from English chav mothers looking for benefits, Somalis, Poles, Paks etc etc.? EPs come here all doe eyed and expect it to be the 1960s. I'll happily help a Sikh immigrant out. I'll tell him he's screwed up and should have stayed in India and got an education if he wanted to emigrate. I wont support the enslavement of Sikh immigrants into the inequal structure of British society like many Poles and Somalis are finding themselves in.

To summarise, Britain needed labour in the 1960s. Jobs came easily. Houses were cheap. Uncles worked their asses off and bought rows of houses. They are selling them now and moving to nicer areas or leaving the UK. Recent immigrants dont have that luxury.

[VanHelsingh]

The guys over in Panjab who watch their fathers and uncles do the hardcore kethi whilst they partake in masti with their "yaar anmule" are cheeky beggars! Yes, dalsingh is spot-on when he says that when they sniff a chance at an opportunity to go abroad then suddenly they develop a previously gupt sense of humility and a strong work ethic where any job will do as long as it's in a foreign country, lol!

WSL is also similarly spot-on when he identifies the folk from this country who give it large when they return home. The ladies may scrub toilets in Heathrow but those same ladies weigh themselves down with gold jewellery as they strut their stuff at the local bazaar.

Yet for all their supposed street-smarts our brethren from back home have a blind spot for seeing through this facade. You'd think they almost don't want to know the truth, lest it shatters some flimsly-held beliefs that aren't based in reality.

Also, why on earth do they put sportswear stickers on cars? What's that about? The last time I went I saw some pretty decent vehicles covered with adidas and Nike adornments. In what world does that even make sense?