Right Wing Nut bar Asaram says-Girl should've called rapists brother

[Raaj.Karega.Khalsa]

I didn't say anyone had the right to rape her. Just like nobody has the right to rape me. One needs to be accountable for their own actions though. If I were walking around Brighton drunk as a skunk in the middle of the night accepting lifts from strange men cruising in their cars, there's an extremely good chance I'd be sodomized that night.

Just saying....individuals and parents need to take more responsibility for their actions. This week alone we've got that Canadian Sikh dad looking for answers as to why his daughter was murdered in Pakistan. She flew half way around the world to meet up with strange men she met on the internet. Now nobody deserves to be murdered but it was always pretty clear that the story was not going to end well. Both she and her parents need to take responsibility for that.

Same with the delhi rape victim. Drunk....with your lover.....in the middle of the night.....getting into strange vehicles in a particularly notorious and violent city. How was this ever going to end well ?

I understand what you're trying to say.

But let's take the other victim. The guy. He was back from the cinema. Drunk or not, I'm not sure. Got on this bus. Was he 'asking' to get beaten up?

How can we ever justify that someone just decides to beat him up?

[JSinghnz]

I actually this this fella's got some things to say that need to be said. Things that don't seem to have been said by others in fear of being beheaded by the hysteria built up over this incident.

The fella's saying the girl was out in the middle of the night with her boyfriend and was so wasted she accepted lifts from strange vehicles.

If not rape then what was going to be the likely outcome of such a scenario ?

What a shameful way of looking at this sad episode. Who told you that the girl was wasted?

It is you who is so wasted as to not have understood the simple fact that she did not accept lift from a so called strange vehicle

but boarded a public transport bus for goodness sake.

[West London Singh]

What a shameful way of looking at this sad episode. Who told you that the girl was wasted?

It is you who is so wasted as to not have understood the simple fact that she did not accept lift from a so called strange vehicle

but boarded a public transport bus for goodness sake.

We all have 'public transport buses' in our towns and cities. And our public transport buses are not always in service. They can all be hired out to private hire. Unless we're too drunk to read, or to old to see, we can always tell which of the public transport buses is in service and which is not. For a start there's a big sign at the front of the bus that says where it is going. This particular Delhi bus was blatantly clear that it was on private hire by a group and was not going to any particular destination. This is a fact thats been pointed out in the Indian media. Only persons half-drunk would fail too see that.

But.....please refer back to my last message. I've made it quite clear that nobody deserves to be raped. Neither she nor I. But.....we as individuals must take responsibility for our actions and we as parents must take responsibility for the actions of our children. If my daughter is going to be out in the middle of night with her 'lover' then I would certainly take some resonsibility for not raising my daughter right. If I'm going to be out in Brighton or Compton Street late at night accepting lifts, I must take some of the responsibility for some of the male rape that is likely that night. This is about individual and collective responsibility. This is about not being afraid of saying something.....not being afraid to go against the mass hysteria.

[VanHelsingh]

I can appeciate the logic in WLS' argument. Put it this way, if the girl was my daughter I'd be very disappointed she was out so late. As a father I'd be extremely concerned. Maybe the Delhi middle-classes have become so sophisticated and metropolitan that such issues are no longer considered to be a problem?

In a perfect world we should be able to go wherever we want, at whatever time, with no danger to our well-being. But we all know there's certain "ways" you adopt in order to protect yourself. You can't rely on the generosity of nature of other people to remain safe.

Clearly, this doesn't excuse the vile actions of the accused.

[Mehtab Singh]

Drunk....with your lover.....in the middle of the night.....getting into strange vehicles in a particularly notorious and violent city. How was this ever going to end well ?

(1.) There is no report of her being drunk, please show us where you read that, as in, an authentic news source. (2.) The guy was not her lover or her boyfriend or fiance, he was just a friend, based on more than several news accounts, although some are confusing him to be her boyfriend. (3.) It was NOT middle of the night, it was 9:45 PM on a Sunday night in Delhi which by the way is nowhere close to "middle of the night" and in that area which is not desolate but rather crowded as its the end of the weekend.

They were offered a cheap fare, they got on the bus. Mind you the girl is from a poor family and rural background, can't really blame her if she chose to board the bus considering the fact that it was a cheap ride. As for why she boarded a "strange vehicle", how many of us know that a gunman is going to enter a shopping mall and go on a killing spree each time we go shopping? We don't, do we? Similarly, poor thing had no idea what awaited her.

By the way, this thread was started about Asaram.

[N30S1NGH]

Lets not trivialize her death now. The problem is when we as society start reading too much into these heinous crimes and start psychoanalysis these incidents it disconnect us from ground human reality to the point that we come across as inadvertently blaming the victim or blaming things/cultures associated with it. We as society need to make sure we always wear victim and its family shoes and see things from their eyes. I am sure last thing in victim's family mind is somehow our daughter/sister shouldn't have taken bus that late- all these things-psycho anyalsis the whole situation.

There is time and place for everything, we can discuss things generally surrounding topic of rape generally, but lets be extremely careful, sensitive towards victims. Lets not do it at the expense of specific victim case..I mean coming back to this topic, poor victim ashes are not even cold yet this right wing nut bar is trying to trivialize this poor woman horrific painful death and his chums/chelas in India including ironically an woman his spokesperson is jumping the bandwagon with him and try to blame the victim, inadvertently or advertently supporting right wing sexist bigoted masochism sadism culture there.

[West London Singh]

By the way, this thread was started about Asaram.

Every thread starts with a central premise about something. That single premise spawns other issues. Its how conversations work. Not just now but since the first conversation many thousands of years ago. Unlike you , Mehtab Singh, most of us are not two dimensional in character. The wider narrative behind what the geezer Asaram said is that we also have our own responsibility for things that happen to us. The whole world spending hours, days and weeks on column inches stating how evil and barbaric the rapists are is all too easy. It is both good and proper that an inch or two is devoted to the responsibility of the individual to live a virtous life and the responsibility of parents to teach their children (boys and girls) to live good clean lives.

Maybe its just the way I was brought up and the values of Sikhi that my parents instilled in me but when I was the age of the victim I never had lovers that I would go on night-time dates with (and most of the news sources seem to be saying that the man with her was her lover) and, never being into things like pubs and clubs, I was never out at night, being in the habit of waking at amrit vele. My point then, directed at others not you, because I don't think you have the capability of reasoning, is that if Sikhi prescribes that good things will come to those that go to bed early and awaken at amrit vela, then is it not reasonable to say that bad things are likely to happen to those frolicking in the streets with the opposite sex late at night ?

[Mehtab Singh]

Every thread starts with a central premise about something. That single premise spawns other issues. Its how conversations work. Not just now but since the first conversation many thousands of years ago. Unlike you , Mehtab Singh, most of us are not two dimensional in character. The wider narrative behind what the geezer Asaram said is that we also have our own responsibility for things that happen to us. The whole world spending hours, days and weeks on column inches stating how evil and barbaric the rapists are is all too easy. It is both good and proper that an inch or two is devoted to the responsibility of the individual to live a virtous life and the responsibility of parents to teach their children (boys and girls) to live good clean lives.

Maybe its just the way I was brought up and the values of Sikhi that my parents instilled in me but when I was the age of the victim I never had lovers that I would go on night-time dates with (and most of the news sources seem to be saying that the man with her was her lover) and, never being into things like pubs and clubs, I was never out at night, being in the habit of waking at amrit vele. My point then, directed at others not you, because I don't think you have the capability of reasoning, is that if Sikhi prescribes that good things will come to those that go to bed early and awaken at amrit vela, then is it not reasonable to say that bad things are likely to happen to those frolicking in the streets with the opposite sex late at night ?

What you do not have is the capability to engage in a discussion without getting personal. All I said was to stay focussed on the topic of the thread, but you, as usual, can't accept for once that you do NOT know the details. I can understand how hard it must be. No one here bothered to ask you about how you were raised. I don't think most of us were raised to think it was ok to go hang out with the opposite gender late at night. The issue here is also not about Sikhi, none of the people were of a Sikh background, not the girl, not the friend, not the rapists and not even this Asaram. As far as "frolicking the streets", its a shame that we have to ask women to stay inside just because there are perverted predators on the prowl.

I dare you to discuss without getting personal. Lets see what reasonable capability you have, or do you only relish on personal taunts to feel good about yourself?

[Mehtab Singh]

Once again WLS, please show us where it says she was drunk and go onto a strange vehicle. I know you can't help getting personal but atleast provide sources for your claims.

[West London Singh]

As far as "frolicking the streets", its a shame that we have to ask women to stay inside just because there are perverted predators on the prowl.

Who the hell said anything about 'women' ? :wow:

I'm a man. Every single example I gave was about myself and how I never did such and such.

I dare you to discuss without getting personal. Lets see what reasonable capability you have, or do you only relish on personal taunts to feel good about yourself?

You have a knack for killing great conversations Mehtab Singh. This is not the first time you've appeared on a thread where lots of people are having a thoughtful debate with each other....bouncing ideas off each other......and killed it. Stone dead. :surrender:

You do this all the time. Whatever the opposite is of the midas touch you've got it. I no longer have the will or desire to say another word on this subject. Please don't expect me to.