Guru's Titles....Dilgeer's views

[Jonny101]

Ok, sir. I thought Guru Ramdass Sahib made clear "baani guru, guru hai baani" pg 982. We sikhs and even Guru Sahibaan consider Baani as Guru. You have made your point clear and I stand corrected for my mistake. I'm Sorry for my rudeness.

Bani is also Guru, when did I deny that? but isn't Sri Guru RamDas Jee also Guru? traditionally Sikhs have interpreted that Tukh(aad gure nameh) as Sri Guru RamDas Ji specifically. I don't think anyone has interpreted that as "Gurbani", not even Sahib Singh Jee has interpreted that as Gurbani. But Bani and Guru Sahibaan all have the same divine jyot in them so either way, even if it is meant to be Bani as per your understanding, and you accept Bani as Guru, still that means Sri Guru Arjun Dev Jee has called Gurbani as GurDev. Since Gurbani can be called GurDev why cannot other Gurus also be called Dev? Do you differentiate between Gurbani and the Gurus?

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

Bani is also Guru, when did I deny that? but isn't Sri Guru RamDas Jee also Guru?

traditionally Sikhs have interpreted that Tukh(aad gure nameh) as Sri Guru RamDas Ji specifically.

Since Gurbani can be called GurDev why cannot other Gurus also be called Dev? Do you differentiate between Gurbani and the Gurus?

Aad Sach, Jugad Sach in japji sahib specifically makes it clear that this Aad and Jugad words are reffered to Akaal Purakh. Aad Gure nameh, aad means eternal "I bow to eternal akaal purakh". Thats my understanding.

I am not against using word Dev let it be made clear, my point is very simple if you use Dev for respect you should use it.

But do not justify your reason (Guru Nanak Dev, Guru Angad Dev, Guru Arjan dev) because Dev is used in Guru Granth Sahib with only these Guru Sahibaans. You should also use Dev with other Guru Sahibaan if Dev is used for respect.

I call Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Nanak Sahib, Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib(Sarvanshdaani).

Gurbani is our Guru, but nobody says Guru Granth Dev. Its just Guru Granth Sahib.

Its all about habit of using Dev with only three Guru's and not for others. We should change our habit if we use Dev for respect, then we should use Dev with every Guru to show respect.

People are vice enough to decide for themselves, its an opinion of mine, you have yours.

No hard feelings. :respect:

[Jonny101]

As per your understanding Aad Gure Nameh and Jugaad Gure Nameh is Vaheguru, we are not talking about those Tukhs. In your previous post you said Sri Gurdeve Nameh is being used for Gurbani(by saying Baani Guru Guru hai Bani remember). Since you yourself mentioned this, you have admitted that Dev can be used for Guru.

No one here is saying has said that only specific Gurus can be called Dev. For us all the Gurus are Dev, point is Dev is being used for Guru. The objection was shown by you and Dilgeer who said Dev should NOT be used for any Guru since it has no foundation in Bani. Truth is it is Dilgeer's stand which has no foundation in Gurbani.

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

As per your understanding Aad Gure Nameh and Jugaad Gure Nameh is Vaheguru, we are not talking about those Tukhs. In your previous post you said Sri Gurdeve Nameh is being used for Gurbani(by saying Baani Guru Guru hai Bani remember). Since you yourself mentioned this, you have admitted that Dev can be used for Guru.

No one here is saying has said that only specific Gurus can be called Dev. For us all the Gurus are Dev, point is Dev is being used for Guru. The objection was shown by you and Dilgeer who said Dev should NOT be used for any Guru since it has no foundation in Bani. Truth is it is Dilgeer's stand which has no foundation in Gurbani.

Since u missed all the point I make myself clear again I am not against using Dev. But if one uses Dev it should be Guru Nanak Dev and even you should call Guru Teg Bahadur Dev because Dev is for respect, if Guru Teg Bahadur Dev is not written in gurbani than it doesn't mean u will take gurbani as shield and will not use Dev with Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib(Dev is used for respect in Indian culture). Dilgeer wrote Gurudev Arjan Sahib, his view is in his note. Do not pick and choose, then it sends wrong impression Guru Nanak Dev(Nanak Dev is name our first Guru) because you won't write Guru Teg Bahadur Dev.(Everybody calls Guru Teg Bahadur).

Nanak hindu ka faqir,muslmann ka pir

Na main hindu, na main musalmaan (Guru Nanak Sahib, Guru Nanak is my master equal to god.)

U himself quoted old traditational translation of aad gureh namah, I gave u my view.

I quoted before gurudev nameh Guru mera deo alakh abao(every guru is dev so use it with every guru) read page 5-6. I have read a little bit of gurbani.