Khalsa Secondary School (West London)

[realist17]

It's the same here in Toronto. Alot of the gudwaras here are political orientated and get tons of funding from the government-probably want them stay hush hush with all the BS that has been happening with India. 

These guys are skewing gurbani. A complaint was sent to a ragi singh a couple of days ago in regards to a hukamnama. 

[BhForce]

On 7/19/2024 at 1:09 AM, ipledgeblue said:

It was the "mainstream" Chaupai Sahib you will hear at a Singh Sabha gurdwaras, usually so-called Ramgarhia gurdwaras and also for the past 100 year or so in Harimandir Sahib under the current committee system. 

Umm, so you're upset that this jatha did Chaupai the same way it's being done at Harimandar Sahib for 100 years? Shouldn't you be upset at the manager of Darbar Sahib? I'm not saying that Sikhs who are aware of certain issues shouldn't do the longer Chaupai, but there are only so many battles you can fight.

Instead of calling some jatha traitors because they're doing the (for better or worse) "standard" Chauapai published by the SGPC, it would be better to change things from the central point.

You can't fault the average Sikh for picking up the average Gutka and doing paath.

[BhForce]

On 7/15/2024 at 11:31 AM, ipledgeblue said:

The problem is, they performed the politics ridden anti-dasam Bhasauria mutilated cut version of Benti Chaupai

Bro, reciting a shorter Chaupai Sahib is hardly "anti-Dasam". It's fine to argue that the longer Chaupai is more traditional, but the short one isn't anti-Dasam.

That's like claiming shorter Rehras is anti-Guru Granth Sahib ji just because there are fewer selections from Guru Granth Sahib. It might not be traditional, but it's not anti-Guru Granth Sahib.

I prefer the longer versions, but let's not exaggerate.

On 7/15/2024 at 11:31 AM, ipledgeblue said:

which is disrespectful to traditional puraatan samrpadaiye and mahapurakh.

Every tradition has a slightly different Rehras version. Nanaksar vs Taksal vs Nihangs and so on. The basic template for Rehras is at the beginning of Guru Granth Sahib ji. Later, Chaupai Sahib was added and Anand Sahib always follows as the end of a process.

Then some sangats added more saloks to start Rehras and others were added at the end. Some additional selections from Dasam Bani were also added, but it wasn't the same ones for every sangat.

The important thing is to not hate on each other for these variations.

[ipledgeblue]

On 7/25/2024 at 10:56 PM, BhForce said:

Bro, reciting a shorter Chaupai Sahib is hardly "anti-Dasam". It's fine to argue that the longer Chaupai is more traditional, but the short one isn't anti-Dasam.

That's like claiming shorter Rehras is anti-Guru Granth Sahib ji just because there are fewer selections from Guru Granth Sahib. It might not be traditional, but it's not anti-Guru Granth Sahib.

I prefer the longer versions, but let's not exaggerate.

Every tradition has a slightly different Rehras version. Nanaksar vs Taksal vs Nihangs and so on. The basic template for Rehras is at the beginning of Guru Granth Sahib ji. Later, Chaupai Sahib was added and Anand Sahib always follows as the end of a process.

Then some sangats added more saloks to start Rehras and others were added at the end. Some additional selections from Dasam Bani were also added, but it wasn't the same ones for every sangat.

The important thing is to not hate on each other for these variations.

The shortcut benti Chaupai sahib was literally started by anti-dasam elements like Bhasauria and in Harimandir Sahib by his associate Kartar Singh Kalaswalia. Elements like Bhasauria also cut bani from Guru Granth Sahib saroop, printing without Bhatt Savaiye and bhagat bani.  Bhasauria and co were also involved in removing dasam granth saroop from gurdwaras such as Ramsar and Akal Takht, using spears and knives ripping saroops angs pages.

Regular Chaupai Sahib should be at least upto including Arril, I was not including Rehraas at all since the students did not perform Rehraas.  Mahapurakhs, santhiya, and sampradaiye all teach Arill, and even then cutting out benti Chaupai bani like that is silly.
 

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/chaupai-sahib-what-happened-last-pauris

"One of Teja Singh's associates, Giani Kartar Singh Kalaswalia, served as the head Granthi of Sri Harimandir Sahib. During his tenure, the Chaupai and Dohira were removed. Ran Singh, the son of Teja Singh wrote the Dasam Granth Nirney in 1919. Therein, he claimed that another Bani (prayer) began after the 25th pauri (verse) - Dustt dokh tay layho bachaaee. However, this claim is false. This is the earliest reference to the short version of Chaupai Sahib, as prior to this, no evidence of anything other than the full Chaupai Sahib has been found."

[Editor's note: Yes. You read that correctly. The same person who introduced the cut Chaupai Sahib... was excommunicated by the Akal Takht... and yet the majority of us use his cut version today!]

https://www.sikhnet.com/news/chaupai-sahib-broken-bani

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Teja Singh Bhasauria was an employee of the British Government. He was given a School and funding to finance both the school and a printing press by the British. He intended to change Gurbani as directed to him by his British employees and his own ideas that were against the Hindu religion or any association to Hinduism in Gurbani. This has been recorded in history both by Prof sahib Singh, and by the fact that a Hukamnama ex-communicated him from the Akal Takht.

One of his associates Giani Kartar Singh Kalaswalia was the head Granthi of Sri Harimandir Sahib. It was during his term of seva that the Chaupai and Dohira were removed. Teja Singh's son Ran Singh, wrote Dasam Granth Nirney in 1919, in which he claims that another Bani starts after the 25th pauri - Dustt dokh tay layho bachaaee. This is untrue. This is the first reference to the short Chaupai Sahib. Before this time there has not been discovered any reference of anything but the full Chaupai Sahib.

The one thing that is very striking about this history is for the first time in Sikh history the Banis have been compromised. Until the British Raj, Sikhs had given their lives to preserve every word of the Siri Guru Granth Sahib and the Siri Dasam Granth. There are many Sikh issues today; lack of leadership, terrorism backlash, women's seva issues. Amongst all issues Sikhs could always go to the Shabad Guru knowing that it was exactly how the Gurus wrote it with Their own Hands. This is one thing that stands out about Choupai Sahib. Every Sikh knows the importance of the Shabad Guru being preserved. Guru Har Rai, who was so gentle that he couldn't even harm a flower, disowned his own son for changing one word of the Adi Granth. Now a full 2 pauris have been taken out of Sikh daily practice. There are ripe complaints amongst Sikhs that the overall Panth is not united, Sikh leaders are corrupt, Sikh youth are leaving their roots, etc. This could be because some of the fundamental practices have been compromised. Bana, Bani, Simran, Seva, and Shastar were given by Guru Gobind Singh so that Sikhs could have his blessing and his spirit against all odds. Now Bana is mostly out of practice and Bani has been shortened.

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For the average practitioner, several Babas have made it clear that the Arril must be read. More than that, it is customary to read the Savaiye and Dohra to finish the Bani. Savaiye and Dohra are complete titles that are compiled onto Choupai from another part of the Sri Dasam Granth. This is similar to Rehiras where we have Shabads from different places in the Siri Guru Granth put together to make the Rehiras. Please note that we are not taking only parts of a complete section. The complete sections of Chaupai Sahib are as follows:

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1) Kabiyo Bach Benti Chaupai
2) Arril and Chaupai (which follows Benti Chaupai as written in the Sri Dasam Granth. These short stanzas act as a conclusion to this Bani before the Zafarnama)
3) Savaiye and Dohra (compiled from an earlier section of Sri Dasam Granth)

 

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Some modern day Sikhs refute the Sri Dasam Granth for its many references to Hindu mythology. This is surprising because the Siri Guru Granth Sahib has many references of the same. So why was it cut after the 25th pauri instead of any other place? It could be because the 26th pauri references 'Jag Mata' (Mother of the World) which could be confused as Hindu goddess worship. Whereas, Guru Ji is using the Mother analogy as one of the many aspects of God. At the end of Japji Sahib, Guruji refers to 'Mata Dharat' - Mother of the World. In this instance the Guru has decided to represent God through the feminine creative aspect.

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It is said that the end and beginning have the most power in any given composition. The last 2 pauris of Chaupai Sahib contain a lot of power. The first 25 pauris are asking God's blessings, and the last 2 are very affirmative of owning the blessings. In the last line Guru Gobind Singh gives his guarantee to the reader:

[Man ba(n)chhat phal pavai soee. Dukh na tisai biaapat koee. (27)
He will obtain the fruit desired by the mind (who will read or listen to this book) and no suffering will occur to him. (27)]

Let us take the Guru's blessing by keeping the seal of the last 2 pauris and experience the power that it gives. 

 

[ipledgeblue]

I heard an announcement yesterday and watched a video: 
Guru Maneyo Granth gurdwara are opening a girls independent sikh school nearby

[BhForce]

13 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

The shortcut benti Chaupai sahib was literally started by anti-dasam elements like Bhasauria and in Harimandir Sahib by his associate Kartar Singh Kalaswalia. Elements like Bhasauria also cut bani from Guru Granth Sahib saroop, printing without Bhatt Savaiye and bhagat bani.  Bhasauria and co were also involved in removing dasam granth saroop from gurdwaras such as Ramsar and Akal Takht, using spears and knives ripping saroops angs pages.

I recognize a lot of things happened in history. I'm not saying they didn't.

My point is simply you can't go around accusing "normal" Sikhs of being traitors just because they are following the "normal" rehit.

You can very kindly try to persuade them but please don't call them enemies just because they did Chaupai according to the SGPC Gutka.

That would be like calling someone who:

-Wears Western clothes

-Doesn't do Asa Di Vaar or Sukhmani Sahib daily

-Does shorter Rehras

-Only wears a kirpan and not the 5 shastars

-Wears a small kirpan and not a 3-foot kirpan

-Doesn't wear blue bana

-Doesn't ride a horse

an "enemy".

[ipledgeblue]

20 hours ago, BhForce said:

I recognize a lot of things happened in history. I'm not saying they didn't.

My point is simply you can't go around accusing "normal" Sikhs of being traitors just because they are following the "normal" rehit.

You can very kindly try to persuade them but please don't call them enemies just because they did Chaupai according to the SGPC Gutka.

That would be like calling someone who:

-Wears Western clothes

-Doesn't do Asa Di Vaar or Sukhmani Sahib daily

-Does shorter Rehras

-Only wears a kirpan and not the 5 shastars

-Wears a small kirpan and not a 3-foot kirpan

-Doesn't wear blue bana

-Doesn't ride a horse

an "enemy".

I did not call anyone an enemy. I am concerned that this politics and anti-dasam views are being taught to yet another generation of unaware children. Of course this can be unintentional like the previous generation, but due to the amount of wider resources and santhiya, we should not be doing this in environments that are not associated with any group or sect etc!

End of the day, children should be taught Chaupai Sahib upto Arril, and they can choose to cut/mutilate the benti chaupai if they need to do paat at a strict Singh Sabha or SGPC gurdwara such as at Harimandir Sahib, or choose to join SGPC, and some "stricter" parts of AKJ etc.  

I look at myself and don't understand why I wasn't taught Chaupai Sahib properly and just blindly kept doing the SGPC bhasaur version. Since I went to Guru Nanak School, I should have known better as Nanaksar would never cut it, but that school wasn't even able to teach Japji Sahib to students let alone Chaupai Sahib in the 1990s!!!

[realist17]

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