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Kartar Singh Jhabbar


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3. As for the Akali LEhar consisting of great warriors etc etc, lets not forget a key leader who dominated the movement for years - a widely recognised ally of the British who caused great destruction within Sikh ideaology.

Are you talking about Jhabbar when you posted this?

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Nihangs have been used by anti-Panthic forces against the Panth in the past and no doubt they will be used as such in future. They had an anti-panthic role in 1920 and their leader was Indira Gandhi's chumcha in 1984.

From your statement it is evident you have no knowledge about Nihung taxonomy. Only Santa Singh joined Indra, yet Baba Daya Singh of the Bidhi Chand Dal joined Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, Baba Nihal Singh Ji of Harianwela joined him, Tarna dal and its remaining 3 sub-battalions joined him. We cannot say all Nihungs are bad on the basis of one. Dhumma acts as Badal's chamcha maybe that means all of damdami Taksal is now a den of traitors?

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Nihungs have many Dals. I am not Nihung but i hav edeep respect for them. Your casting them in same mould is your lack of knowledge about them and Punjab.Your knowledge is from internet only and let me tell you so called niddar is no Nihung.

Beofre you give example of Baba santa singh whom i despise for his role in 1984, let me tell you many nihung dals marched to harmandir sahib from countryside in 1984 for Darbar sahib defence. Baba bidhi chand dal from jhabal led by daya singh was strafed by army helicopter and some died. Nihungs of marianwala group near Batala too were killed by army when they came to Darbar sahib defense.

Baba Harianvelan wale was imprisoned an tortutured for being close to Bhindrewale. Whom are you kidding here by anti Nihung stance? Read some sikh history before condemning nihung singhs lock, stock and barrel.Only an anti panthic person can do that.

When congress stooge Sarna took Ragi darshan to akal takhat with two bus loads of Goondas it were Nihung dals for taking on these rogues.And do not forget sikhs of khalsa were all nihungs to begin with likes of Baba deep singh and tat khalsa.

I will like to add to that that Bhai Avtar Singh Brahma was a nihung himself affliated with the Bidhi-Chand dal.

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But yes he did pierce and throw Triya Charitar out as a response to Hindu Mahants reading it and placing it alongside Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

Veerji, please do not make such a false statement. Kartar Singh Jabbar did no such thing. Kartar Singh Jhabbar was a believer in Sri Dasam Granth. All Sikhs Shaheeds and warriors since 1699 to the mid 1990s have been firm believers in Sri Dasam Granth. For 300 years, Sri Dasam Granth's Bir Rassi Bani has been inspiring Singh Soorme to fight and become Shaheeds for the Panth. The Indian government realized that in order to specify the Sikhs, they must break their martial spirit and in order to do that, they created the kala Afghanist movement. Gurbaksh kala afghana (who is a GOI asset) began to spread lies and put doubts about Sri Dasam Granth since the mid 90s right after the armed Khalistani movement was suppressed. The GOI wants to make sure that they break the martial spirit of the Sikhs so in future Sikhs do not restart an armed struggle for their rights. But thankfully all the doubters of Sri Dasam Granth jee are outside of India. In India, Sikhs are still believers in Sri Dasam Granth. No one there listens to these Kala Afghanists and missionaries.

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Slight correction of you Veerji ... Sardar Kartar Singh Jhabbar had full faith in Dasam Bani (as do I )

Slight correction Veerji ... anyone who calls themself Sikh will have utmost reverence for authentic Dasam Bani (as do I)

Authentic Dasam Bani certainly provides immeasurable Bir Ras to those who care to imbibe it.

Veerji i have too much respect for you as a sincere Amritdhari to argue and systematically dismantle the rest of your post which I strongly disagree with but u know exactly why some Sikhs do not accept Triya Charitar and why the Khalsa Panth and Sardar Kartar Singh Jhabbar threw it out along with the Hindu Mahants that revered it.

No power in the Universe can break the martial spirit of the Khalsa Panth. Ancestral biographies (in contradiction to the ethos of Vasakhi 1699) or sexual stories that the Hindu Mahants were famous for reading did not give the Hindu Mahants a martial spirit when they faced up against the Khalsa Panth. There is greater majority support for the viewpoint you disagree with in Malwa and Majha even more than there is in Canada.

Surely, the best position for all of us on both sides to adopt is to agree to disagree on this matter and unitedly focus on drugs, alcohol, illiteracy, abortion and biraderi. And focus our efforts unitedly towards the fundraising drive for the Khalsa Aid PURE program so poor Sikh children get an education.

Veerji I agree, we should just agree to disagree one this. I just replied because you wrote a statement about Kartar Singh Jhabbar which was a false statement because he was a believer in Sri Dasam Granth. Doubters of this granth only started in the last 15-17 years with the advent of Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana the ex Punjab Police cop and his supporters are mainly only in the west.

These are issues we should not raise while we are in political Ghulaami. Until we have our own Raaj, our main focus should be to increase our demographic share and work towards a Sikh Raaj. Until then, raising doubts about Dasam Granth and other Sikh traditions will only hinder our goal of political Raaj of the Sikhs because it brings disunity. Right now our focus should be to do Parchar to non-Sikhs, have larger families(by having more kids), having firm roots by teaching our children about the importance of observing the Rehit.

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Veerji, again I must stress there is a difference in being a firm believer in Dasam Bani as I am and Sardar Kartar Singh Jhabbar spearing Triya Charitar.

Again you are making a false statement about Kartar Singh Jhabbar spearing Dasam Granth. Please stop doing so. Not such thing happened. If you make a false statement 100 times, it will still remain a false statement. I don't understand why you would spread this lie.

Actually Veerji the controversy heightened from 1977 when DDT started pushing parallel parkash.

No Sikh will tolerate any disrespect of our one Maharaj being placed parallel with anything else like the Hindu Mahants did in the 1920's.

Veerji, again you need to learn history about this issue because you are making statements about this issue which are only showing you have limited knowledge of the historic context of the existence of Sri Dasam Granth. Damdami Taksal in Mehta only has prakash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, so I don't know where you got the 1977 story from.. I myself am not in favour of doing prakash of Sri Dasam Granth. But, Sikhs have been doing Prakash of Dasam Granth since the period of the Sikh misls. This is a historical fact. Until Gurbaksh Kala Afghana raised doubts of Sri Dasam Granth in the mid 90s, barely any Sikh would read or do prakash of Sri Dasam Granth. Today Sikhs again dong prakash of Dasam Granth is a protective reaction to his followers raising doubts about Sri Dasam Granth.

Kala Afghana is irrelavant to this discussion and regarding support levels most of Malwa and Majha are actually firmly in support of "Guru Maneyo Granth" given that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj only bowed before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and certainly not before Triya Charitar (otherwide why would the Khalsa Panth throw it out along with the Hindu Mahants who revered it as a modern incarnation of the Kama Sutra)

Gurbaksh Kala Afghana is very relevant to this discussion because he is the one who started this anti Dasam Granth movement 15-17 years ago. He is an illiterate man who managed to write a volumes of books raising doubts on Sikh traditions. Many Singhs say the GOI wrote them with his name on it. And Majha and Malwa have nothing to do with this discussion. Where in Majha and Malwa are you talking about? I go to India all the time and would be interested in knowing. Most of the Nihang Dals, Taksals, DDT, AKJ, SGPC etc is all located in Majha and Malwa who are supporters of Sri Dasam Granth.

Agreed Veerji conferences on such futile subjects of discussion are a distraction from the main job of tacking alcohol, drugs, biraderi, abortion + illiteracy.

Veerji, the conference is a reaction to the doubters of Sri Dasam Granth in the west. Sri Dasam Granth is an age old tradition of the Sikhs going back to Bhai Mani Singh Jee's period. Anti Dasam Granth movement is since the mid 90s with the advent of Kala Afghana. You are saying, Kala Afghanists can continue to misguide and distract Sikhs in the west about Sikh traditions, yet traditional Sikhs should not even react?

The point to remember Veerji is that no Sikh doubts Dasam Bani. Further, many Sikhs are offended by inclusion of the word Granth in the title of the anthology that Khem Bedi (Amitabh's anti-Sikh ancestor) assembled with his 1897 Sodhak committe with great assistance from his Arya Samaj and British supporters. It is a fundamental duty that Sikhs that oppose any anti-Gurmat material and if you wish we can discuss further by pm once we have a reached a significant total for Khalsa Aid PURE program.

Veerji, you are spreading lies after lies about this issue. Your knowledge of Sri Dasam Granth issue is based on a lie as proven by the above statement. I asked you previously too to show proof of where the British and Arya Samaj is responsible for the Sodhak committee. Please read Giani Harbans Singh Jee's book on the subject for more info. This is the granth of Sikh warriors and Shaheeds for the last 300 years.

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Whole dasam granth sahib is from Sri Guru Gobind singh sahib. Those who doubt that have no

place in sikh panth.

There is no bani by the name triya chariter.Can you show us where is it?

Moderator : He is bent upon on doing propaganda against Dasam bnai. It is good he is under quality

control now.I have asked him a question.If he continues to violate forum guidelines ( Guideline is Whole

Dasam Granth is by Guru sahib) Then you should take further action and such doubt creating posts

should not filter out.

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