A new opinion on Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh's Death

[Simran9]

source:

Gurinder Singh Mann. The Making of Sikh Scripture. New York: Oxford Universtiy Press, 2001.

pg 12-13:

The author, Mann, is discussing the earlier Sikh manuscripts. Here he paraphrases what Kesar Singh Chhibbar has said in his book Bansavlinama Dasan Patishahian Ka, on page 136:

Chihibbar implies that the text of Adi Granth is closed, that no provisions or additions could be allowed. He refers to the compilation of ta manuscript by Bhai Mani Singh, a leading figure during the period following death of Guru Gobind Singh, in which the contents of the ADi Granth were reorganized and the hymns of the Bhagats wer appended at the end. Chhibbar views Bhai Mani Singh's violent execution--- his limbs were cut off---as a punishment for tinkering with the text of the Adi Granth.

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I thought this was an interesting way to think of why he suffered the way he did at his death. juz thought i'd share....

btw, the source book is really good! get it from your library if they have and read it or get it anyhow! :lol: i will post some other good things from it later.

[Akaali]

that's bloody retarded. :lol:

[Deep Singh]

Yeh i have located the book...read some pages here and there..looks good. will read it when i have time.

By the way: this event of Bhai Mani Sahib Ji Shaheed and the rearrangement of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...and Guru Gobind Singh Ji tellinn him that as you have done this, you will have to pay for this with your own Shaheedi...or something on these lines...

this is very common story...and i believe lots of people in Sikh circles accept it.

[Bijla Singh]

total BS. ppl need to come into their senses before they start talking about Bhai Mani Singh Ji and all the 18th century Gursikhs.

[Mehtab Singh]

There will never be shortage of people who want to belittle the sacrifice of Guru Sahibaans and Shaheeds, or the karamaats of Gurujee and bhagats. Some say Guru Nanak Dev Jee never visited Saudi Arabia. Some say Guru Gobind Singh Jee beheaded goats on Vasakhi of 1699. Some say such stuff about Bhai Mani Singh Jee. Some even say that Shaheed Bhai Satwant Singh and Shaheed Bhai Beant Singh didn't shoot indra and it was someone else.

my 1st reaction to them -->> :lol:

and then -->>

and then -->> :wub:

and then -->> @

and finally -->> go get a life, coz we aint gonna be put down this way, or anyway!

[Deep Singh]

whether it is BS or not is a different matter. My point is: it is a famous story, and people in Sikh circles believe in it, either (1.) as a means of showing the 'Completeness' of Gurbani, the way Guru Sahib have constructed it and that there should be 1430 Panneh, in the similar manner in Raags as it was done in Damdami Bir. Or (2.) because historic records hold this view, such as Chibber's word.

My opinion: if Guru Sahib had told a Gursikh such as Bhai Mani Singh Ji that he has to give Shaheedi, he would have accepted it as once and accepted the will. (as the story tells that he did.)

[Bijla Singh]

famous story means nothing. no reasoning provided. if this is true then all the details should be provided. this story is illogical and totally makes no sense in any way. 1430 pages do not show completness of Gurbani. puratan saroops have more pages. gurbani is not limited to pages.

When 46 gursikhs went to sachkhand, Guru Ji stopped Baba Deep Singh Ji and Bhai Mani SIngh Ji and intructed them to start Taksals. Guru JI told Baba Deep SIngh JI that even if His head gets separated from the body His gyan will still increase and told Bhai Mani SIngh JI that if his body was cut into pieces his gyan will still stay the same. this is the real story.

looking at historical facts we know that Gursikhs were martyred just to destroy SIkhi. Bhai Taru SIngh JI, Bhai Shabeg SIngh Shabaaz SIngh JI, Bhai Mati Das Ji and all others became shaheed which is not a sign of punishment but a sign of glory. Bhai Mani SIngh Ji being shaheed is glorious too but if the so called story is true then Bhai Sahib's shaheedi was nothing but a punishment and there is no glory to it. if the story is true then no one would call it a shaheedi in the first place. so stop twisting it around and trying to come up with some other meanings. 18th century Gursikh knew more about Gurbani and Sikhi than all of us. major difference between 18th and 21st century is this:

1) gursikhs in 18th century did what Guru Ji said

2) gursikhs in 21st century want Guru Ji to do what they say.

believing in these stories show how foolish we have become and how much we know about our history. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Deep Singh]

Bhai Sahib,

I hope you understand that my personal opinion is not that this story is true or false. I am not writing to share my personal opinion, but trying to see if others have Gian that they can share, and finally we can make up some solid opinion.

You mentioned Taksal started by Bhai Mani Singh/Baba Deep Singh Ji. Does Damdami Taksal accept the story about Guru Sahib telling Bhai Ji that he will attain Shaheedi?

You have said that the story is illogical, which may or may not be right.

However, let us look at it this way. We will suppose for the sake of the argument that the story is true to detemine if it illogical or not:

Taking into account the meaning of Shaheedi in Sikhism, when Guru Sahib had told Bhai Mani Singh Ji that he will attain Shaheedi....Bhai Mani Singh would have been delighted, it is a dream of any Gursikh that he/she may do outmost what is possible to do for the Panth. Guru Sahib telling about the Shaheedi is like a gift for a Sikh. 'Oh Waheguru! What noble cause you are going to use me for! Dhan Dhan! Waheguru Da Bhana Mann-ee!' (I am putting these words in the mouth of a Gursikh, to clear up my perspective.)

However, if we look at this as a punishment (as you do), it is Guru Sahib giving punishment for some kind of "crime" that the Sikh has commited, in this case rearrangement of Gurbani. Here we have a problem. Why would Guru Sahib punish such a great Gursikh? Guru Sahib has the authority to do it, and given the '

;story is true' ie a Sikh have rearranged Gurbani, Guru Sahib could do it. And given the story background; Guru Sahib want the Bani to be the way it is arranged, if there is not punishment, Sikhs in the future will arrange the Bani in any way they may want. And perhaps if there wasn't any punishment the CRIME of Teja Singh Bashuria wouldn't be considered a crime in the 1900s!

But equally: Guru Sahib is full of Kirpa, Daya, Guru Sahib is Antar-Jaami, Giani-Gian. What kind of punishment does Guru Sahib give?? So us it may sound like Guru Sahib have given the most strict punishment, just like tortur...just like prisoners as killed, but then you are forgetting the Gursikhi way of thinking.

What is the biggest punishment according to Gurmat? One can say: That you never come to SachKhand, but it is not totally correct, as in the end, everyone will get mukhti. So the strict punishment in Gurmat is that a person is wandering in millions of lives, without getting mukhti. Did Guru Sahib give that punishment?

On the other hand, which "punishment" did Guru Sahib give?? The punishment of Shaheedi! The punishment of Eternal Peace, of Eternal Freedom, of Mukti....is it a punishment or it is a gift!

Bhai Mani Singh Ji, accepting the Will of Maharaj, seeing the truth, sees what great punishment he has got. Sikhs of the 18th cent. were happy when they knew they were going to be Shaheed! And at the same time: Bhai Mani Singh Ji is fully aware that any Gursikh would from this day have respect for Gurbani. And never try to make any own versions etc. Because Maharaj has shown what "punishment" there will be...Guru Sahib have shown that Gurbani is to be the way it was given by them.

For further thinking:

From the above "picture", i hope you see if it is a punishment or a gift. I still hold my view: this story may or may not be true. The only concern is: It is easy to say what is logical or illogical, but is it the Gurmat way of thinking? Are

there spiritual meanings with such stories that don't see with the eye of reason and logic?

This story may just be it, a story, but for me, even if it may not be truth, it still holds some meaning. Some advice that the writer is trying to give. Is the writer "belittling" Bhai Mani Singh? At one point, the author shows the way Sikhs should respect Gurbani, there is no other way, but the Raaga-arrangement. On the second thought, he tell, look even great Sikhs such as Bhai Mani Singh who scribed so much Gurbani knew about this. And they also, in the end, hold this view that Gurbani is the way it is designed by Guru Sahib. And in the midst of the story, the writer adds the great Shaheedi of Bhai Mani Singh, how Guru Sahib gifted the Shaheedi to their beloved Gursikhs.

[SunSingh]

"Chihibbar implies that the text of Adi Granth is closed, that no provisions or additions could be allowed. "

The Adi Granth Sahib is the first version, the one compiled by our fifth Guru. The final version, the Kartarpur Bir or the Guru Granth Sahib, was completed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji and he did add his father's Bani to it. I think it is importent to recognise that the two are slightly different Granths.

[sukhsingh]

bijla singh, u dont know what the ADMIN CUT - hey hey don't talk like that -8

bhai mani singh ji added sri guru gobind singh jis bani into the guru granth sahib. this saroop is still around.

when the sangat found out what he had done, it is "said" that they cursed him, saying he will get cut limb by limb for this action.