Hyde Park Rally In June

[jashb]

UKL = In anticipation of the 30th anniversary one point I wanted to humbly suggest to yourself is that perhaps we can increase the attendance in June 2014 and gain greater media coverage both locally and internationally by terming it the Rememberance+Rights Peace March as opposed to Rememberance+Freedom Rally as at a stroke all those who feel uncomfortable articulating Khalistan (in a climate where USA and UK governments actively support Delhi) would thus have no reason not to participate in the human rights demand of Justice for Sikhs. By terming it a Rememberance+Rights Peace March we might even be able to drag in non-Sikh Punjabi's to bolster the number of attendeees and thereby use the occasion for increased parchaar to non-Sikhs.

With all due respect brother - I strongly disagree.

Such a move would rightly be seen by the many as the organisers turning their back on the freedom movement. It would quite likely alienate the 50,000+ that already attend the freedom rally ever year, including myself.

We openly want freedom from a false, murderous, genocidal oppressive state - we have nothing to hide, and nothing to gain from denying that.

Numbers are going up every year already. There was talk of 80,000+ attending last year. Even if renaming the rally pulled in 1m+, I still wouldn't support such a move. The end does not justify the means

[UKLondonSikh]

With all due respect brother - I strongly disagree.

Such a move would rightly be seen by the many as the organisers turning their back on the freedom movement. It would quite likely alienate the 50,000+ that already attend the freedom rally ever year, including myself.

We openly want freedom from a false, murderous, genocidal oppressive state - we have nothing to hide, and nothing to gain from denying that.

Numbers are going up every year already. There was talk of 80,000+ attending last year. Even if renaming the rally pulled in 1m+, I still wouldn't support such a move. The end does not justify the means

UKL = I always respect your points big time Jashb Paji and I hear you on why you feel as you do. However, I genuinely believe we can realistically get 200,000 Sikhs+others there in June 2014 if we don't declare openly what 1984 consequentially initiated and merits. No people can be forced to lived subject to a terrorist central givernment against their free will. Furthermore, though we can openly declare naaray here in the UK they don't do our brothers and sisters back home any favours. I genuinely believe that. There's a reason why SS Mann's party garner hardly any votes. I strongly believe the open naaray are divisive internally within the Panth and also alienate potential non-Sikh allies. I strongly believe that our bureaucratic enemies are strengthened in their anti-Sikh agenda's by each slogan for Khalistan in the Diaspora. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that a terrorist central government forfeited the moral right to decide or determine our affairs in 1984 and with the Genocide that followed in subsequent years. However, I think it's politically naive for us to make proclamations for freedom when we have not tackled or laid the foundation blocks of eradicating drugs, alcohol, biraderi apartheid, illiteracy, poverty and female infanticide. The defeat of the Tamil Tigers recently shows the USA, UK, France, Russia (four of the security council members) have no appetite to support legitimate movements for self-rule. China itself illegally annexed the independent nation of Tibet and realises that India as a behemoth of 1.3 billion will be hard to dismember given that the West needs India united as a counterweight to China and will brazenly support Delhi in oppressing minorities and peoples that ask for equal rights.

UKL = Bir'ay when the British had their Indian Empire there were no more than a 100,000 goray that controlled the subcontinent of hundreds of millions of "Indians". The minute we have 99% literacy, no internal socio-economic or tribal discrimination, 99% of the Panth drugs and alcohol free and an economic climate where no Sikh children are going hungry at night, then no power on this planet can rule us unjustly when we legtimately desire Khalsa Raj. That's the bottom line. If everyone is willing to die and we have no traitors like 1847 or 1984 then no power can rule us. China and India and USA combined cannot stop us as a people in Malwa and Majha where we are a majority (so long as we have Ekta and the foundations in place).

UKL = I think Paji the question is whether the perception of the organisers (superficially) turning their backs on the legitimate desire for freedom is more important than getting our Panth's youth off drugs+alcohol, getting our Qaum 100% literate, ending biraderi apartheid, ending poverty and female infanticide? As we need to focus on right now as the foundation blocks as a pre-cursor to potentially to achieving an end to rule by terrorists from Dehli.

UKL = Paji as a 4year old I was present with in the marches against Congress Terrorism and Genocide as far back as 1984. Now if we look at where we are 29 years of naaray later look at where we are on all indices. Bakhre Bakhre Gurdware, naujawaan nashe karde te sharaab har saal loka ne zyaadha peeni, dhiyan nu loki marde, te gareebah kole paisa no hove aj kal dudh kreedhan nu ... how can we possibly get freedom from well organised bureaucratic terrorists in the short term that rule+operate a terrorist central state with 100 times our military+economic resources? Imho clearly it's a long term thing and we should focus on combatting the silent ongoing Genocide of our Qaum (rather than naaray which in practical terms have achieved nothing positive for our Qaum in this millenium).

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

Some attend the annual event as they simply want to REMEMBER and pay their respects to the Shaheeds.

We PROTEST during the MARCH as it is not only about REMEMBRANCE as we have not had JUSTICE. The way we hope to get the message across this year will be more creative, professional etc.

If you have not had JUSTICE then what we need to get across to non-Sikhs and the mainstream media on the 30th anniversary is we want FREEDOM (this will be the main theme).

FREEDOM can and will have many meanings:

FREEDOM for Sikh political prisoners

FREEDOM from the death penalty/hanging

FREEDOM of religion - Article 25

FREEDOM for greater rights - Punjab's water

etc.

AND of course FREEDOM from India

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

AWAZE QAUM INTERNATIONAL confirm and pledge their support to the FSO for the 8th June 2014 Remembrance March and Freedom Rally in Central London.

To pledge our support please email fso@live.co.uk

Now over 120 Gurdwara's & International Organisations unite under 1 Nishan Sahib for the 1984 Remembrance events to show solidarity and true Panthic unity #NeverForget84

26 December 2013: AWAZE QAUM INTERNATIONAL

Contact Jatinder Singh on 07955 55584 for further information.

[jashb]

Some attend the annual event as they simply want to REMEMBER and pay their respects to the Shaheeds.

We PROTEST during the MARCH as it is not only about REMEMBRANCE as we have not had JUSTICE. The way we hope to get the message across this year will be more creative, professional etc.

If you have not had JUSTICE then what we need to get across to non-Sikhs and the mainstream media on the 30th anniversary is we want FREEDOM (this will be the main theme).

FREEDOM can and will have many meanings:

FREEDOM for Sikh political prisoners

FREEDOM from the death penalty/hanging

FREEDOM of religion - Article 25

FREEDOM for greater rights - Punjab's water

etc.

AND of course FREEDOM from India

^^^100%!!!

Our nishana is still azaad halemi khalsa raj KHALISTAN. I cannot ever deny that while there is even the slightest semblance of breath in my body.

UK veere, regarding the state of affairs 29 years on from the bloody assault on our Quom in 1984.

We do not live under delusions of grandeur. India's genocide of 300,000+ Sikhs (mostly young, unmarried, teenage to 20's males) in the early 1990's that physically brutally liquidated our freedom movement, which was on the brink of success ( Takht - as per declaration of Shaheed Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Manochahal - Takht ya Taboot ), by killing off the current and future youth of our quom, was incredibly painful. We won the battles but lost the war. We didn't resort to matching the enemy's dirty tactics.

The hurt continues with this ongoing silent genocide via a seemingly endless inflow of drugs, alcohol, and the quom killing itself through its daughters. But there is a distinct difference between losing and admitting defeat i.e. giving up. We have never admitted defeat, and we are not about to give up anytime soon.

Now, as for the future;

We may well lose many of the battles to come. But of one thing, Guru-Paatshah has made me absolutely nischat sure;

WE WILL WIN THE WAR.

[jashb]

UKL = Paji as a 4year old I was present with in the marches against Congress Terrorism and Genocide as far back as 1984.

Apparently I was there as a baby in 1984 but obviously I don't remember anything of it.

I remember very fondly the rallies that took place in later years when I was a young child. Starting at Hyde Park, finishing on the Embankment.

There was then a gap of about 10 years - never heard about any rally then. No coaches left from the Gurdwara.

Then 2004 happened. First advertisements of a panthic event ever heard on panjaab radio, akaash radio, amrit bani radio stations (there were no Sikh TV channels back then). Huge hype. Coaches went packed from the Gurdwara.

I remember meeting an uncle in Hyde Park before the start of the march and asking him why doesn't the remembrance and freedom really happen every year? He was like "it does. This year is just the first time anyone's turned up!!!"

2004 was massive. 2014 will be even bigger.

I never understood the meaning of the marches when I was a child, but as a 20-year old I understood very well. Slowly, my whole view of India and the terrorist Indian Flag totally turned on its head. No longer was it a tool to wind up pakistanis. Now I saw it, minus Indian propaganda, for what it was; a symbol of Oppression. The zaalim taranga. I would never support tyrannical Indian rule ever again.

I would only support the Khalsa.

RAJ KARAYGA KHALSA!

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

SIKH SANGAT.COM confirm and pledge their support to the FSO for the 8th June 2014 Remembrance March and Freedom Rally in Central London.

To pledge your support please email fso@live.co.uk

Now over 120 Gurdwara's & International Organisations unite under 1 Nishan Sahib for the 1984 Remembrance events to show solidarity and true Panthic unity #NeverForget84

27 December 2013: SIKH SANGAT . COM

Contact Vicky Singh on sikhsangat@live.com for further information.

[UKLondonSikh]

Some attend the annual event as they simply want to REMEMBER and pay their respects to the Shaheeds.

We PROTEST during the MARCH as it is not only about REMEMBRANCE as we have not had JUSTICE. The way we hope to get the message across this year will be more creative, professional etc.

If you have not had JUSTICE then what we need to get across to non-Sikhs and the mainstream media on the 30th anniversary is we want FREEDOM (this will be the main theme).

FREEDOM can and will have many meanings:

FREEDOM for Sikh political prisoners

FREEDOM from the death penalty/hanging

FREEDOM of religion - Article 25

FREEDOM for greater rights - Punjab's water

etc.

AND of course FREEDOM from India

UKL = Agreed Khalsa Ji. There is no point of contention between us on the above. However, the word "RIGHTS" can equally cover everything upon which Freedom is sought and I strongly believe that the simple replacement of one word could potentially triple the attendance figures in June 2014. I was going to write to Sikh Council about this however, since you are from the FSO yourself it was better and easier to put my humble suggestion to the source. I would be very grateful if you can respond with more clarification on why and if there is possibility that Sarbat Khalsa/FSO/Sikh Council can at least discuss how we frame June 2014 to get the most exposure locally and internationally as well as the most ongoing benefits for the upliftment of the Panth.

J = Our nishana is still azaad halemi khalsa raj KHALISTAN. I cannot ever deny that while there is even the slightest semblance of breath in my body.

UKL = Agreed bir'ay. What happened in 1984 made it crystal clear that the Sikh Panth cannot be held to ransome by terrorist central governments. We cannot have our affairs determined by those that inflicted and continue to inflict Genocide upon us. However, in much the same way that a kharku would keep an AK-47 hidden under a shawl I strongly believe that we need to be pragmatic about our "declared" objectives. The last 29 years should teach us something.

J = veere, regarding the state of affairs 29 years on from the bloody assault on our Quom in 1984.

J = We do not live under delusions of grandeur. India's genocide of 300,000+ Sikhs (mostly young, unmarried, teenage to 20's males) in the early 1990's that physically brutally liquidated our freedom movement, which was on the brink of success ( Takht - as per declaration of Shaheed Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Manochahal - Takht ya Taboot ), by killing off the current and future youth of our quom, was incredibly painful. We won the battles but lost the war. We didn't resort to matching the enemy's dirty tactics.

UKL = 100% agreed bir'ay. All terrorism was done by Indira's Black Cats led by Muhammad Alam Khan as the Khalsa Panth protects the innocent and is nirvair.

J = The hurt continues with this ongoing silent genocide via a seemingly endless inflow of drugs, alcohol, and the quom killing itself through its daughters.

UKL = Agreed bir'ay and I believe that these should be three of our primary short term objectives before we even broadcast bigger political objectives openly.

J = But there is a distinct difference between losing and admitting defeat i.e. giving up. We have never admitted defeat, and we are not about to give up anytime soon

UKL = Bilcul bir'ay. The Sikh Panth can NEVER be defeated. History proves that given the multiple repeat Genocides we have endured. Raj Karega Khalsa. Full stop. However, i strongly believe that in the current situation we need to re-group, get the foundations in place of no drugs, no alcohol, no female infanticde, 100% literacy, eradication of poverty and apartheid mentality inherited from Hindu's and Muslims ... and then proceed with the inevitable long term consequences of 1984.

J = Now, as for the future;

J = We may well lose many of the battles to come. But of one thing, Guru-Paatshah has made me absolutely nischat sure;

J = WE WILL WIN THE WAR.

UKL = Absolutely bir'ay ... Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh ... says its all.

UKL = However, 29 years after 1984 ... Delhi's position is far, far stronger ... and our position is commensurately weaker (with the exception of a stronger media voice in the recent last few years). I don't think there are any realistic pretensions of an armed struggle re-igniting any time soon whilst the Prime Minister of India, The Head of the Indian Army and the Chief UN representatives of India are all currently "visible" Kesdhari Sikhs. Therefore, why not let us prioritise the defeat of alcohol, drugs, infanticide, biraderi, illiteracy and poverty for the short term at least. There is also an argument that if we channel the resources currently employed into advocation of Khalistan into seva and parchar for poor and oppressed people in India, Asia and Africa there may come a day whereby the whole of India (if not the whole world) could be governed justly via Khalsa Raj (which is the only form of rule that can deliver justice to all with Sarbat Da Bhala as its guiding motto).

J = Apparently I was there as a baby in 1984 but obviously I don't remember anything of it.

J = I remember very fondly the rallies that took place in later years when I was a young child. Starting at Hyde Park, finishing on the Embankment.

UKL = Bir'ay even though I was young in 1984 and the years thereafter, there was total unity in the Qaum. Everyone knew what had been done to us and that the Sikh Panth cannot live under terrorist rule. I too used to chant naaray for Khalistan. However, in this millenium, I have become more circumspect about declaring such slogans openly because I strongly believe we have to recognise the changing ground reality in India, globally and politically. How the West has left the Tamils out to dry is telling. How the Tibetan people have been annexed, repressed and crushed by Chinese oppression whilst the West cares more about commercial deals with China is also telling. So long as Pakistan remains a united nation in its current form I think we need to recognise that Delhi is unlikely to easily allow freedom for its own oppressed minorities.

J = There was then a gap of about 10 years - never heard about any rally then. No coaches left from the Gurdwara.

UK = I think the Black Cats violence unleashed by Congress was a big part of certain committees not knowing where to stand.

J = Then 2004 happened. First advertisements of a panthic event ever heard on panjaab radio, akaash radio, amrit bani radio stations (there were no Sikh TV channels back then). Huge hype. Coaches went packed from the Gurdwara.

UK = The media freedom overseas is one of the bright points of where we stand today compared to 30 years ago.

J = I remember meeting an uncle in Hyde Park before the start of the march and asking him why doesn't the remembrance and freedom really happen every year? He was like "it does. This year is just the first time anyone's turned up!!!"

UK = Exactly, marches did happen every single year.

J = 2004 was massive. 2014 will be even bigger.

UKL = Agreed

J = I never understood the meaning of the marches when I was a child, but as a 20-year old I understood very well. Slowly, my whole view of India and the terrorist Indian Flag totally turned on its head. No longer was it a tool to wind up pakistanis. Now I saw it, minus Indian propaganda, for what it was; a symbol of Oppression. The zaalim taranga. I would never support tyrannical Indian rule ever again. I would only support the Khalsa. RAJ KARAYGA KHALSA!

UKL = 100% agree with you on the above. However, my point to you is that if we both agree on the birthright of all human beings to self-determination (particularly a nation which has at least 30million population strength) then how do we go about best utilising June 2014 Hyde Park rally to the benefit of the Panth. Firstly, i think we need greater attendance and a broader spectrum of attendance to garner the most local, international and Indian media coverage. By terming June 2014 as a Remembrance + Rights Peace March I think we can potentially get three times the attendance (as all those Sikhs uncomfortable with the notion of self-rule and freedom from central government terrorism would have no excuse on why not to attend). Furthermore, certain biraderi golak committees would likely participate in order to further the cause of Unity.Multi-faith groups including UK Hindu's would have pressure on them to show support for an end to the ongoing injustices against Sikhs as well as a recognition that we were the 100% innocent victims of Delhi's terrorism.

UKL = The other thing is this bir'ay is that on all indices (except self-controlled Sikh media) we are worse off today than we were in 1983. The one that personally angers me the most is the biaderi golak committee wale. With Unity it makes winning a war difficult if not impossible. So rather than trying to fly to Mars straight away i think we should short term strive to reach the Moon again in terms of killing off infanticide, illiteracy, poverty, biraderi and drugs/alcohol. I believe the whole emphasis of June 2014 must be on raising the maximum funds possible so that no village in Punjab is left behind. Naaray in isolation get us nowhere. We have to do co-ordinated action and raise money to make a difference. Because if we are raising slogans in 2014 (without a broad spectrum of attendance) and then come the 2021 we Sikhs are less than 50% of the East Punjab population I think history will judge us harshly. So I think we need to build bridges and unity and to that end participation from groups affiliated to Namdhari's, Nirankari Radha Soami's, Dera Ballan and even Hindu Mandirs would be no bad thing if the attendance numbers are thereby boosted, bridges are built and the end result is that more funds are raised to combat the ongoing forms of the silent Genocide against us (in which yet again wrecthed so-called Sikhs play an active part). In short bir'ay I am saying that we have everything to gain by being politically palatable for Cameron and Obama and Indian media in terming the rally as a Remembrance+Rights Peace March. By so doing it won't stop the right to "self-determination".

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

KHALSA FOOTBALL FEDERATION (KFF) confirm and pledge their support to the FSO for the 8th June 2014 Remembrance March and Freedom Rally in Central London.

To pledge your support please email fso@live.co.uk

Now over 120 Gurdwara's & International Organisations unite under 1 Nishan Sahib for the 1984 Remembrance events to show solidarity and true Panthic unity #NeverForget84

28 December 2013: KHALSA FOOTBALL FEDERATION (KFF)

Contact Kooner Singh on 07973 640230 for further information.

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

SIKH COMMUNITY YOUTH SERVICE (SCYS) confirm and pledge their support to the FSO for the 8th June 2014 Remembrance March and Freedom Rally in Central London.

To pledge your support please email fso@live.co.uk

Now over 120 Gurdwara's & International Organisations unite under 1 Nishan Sahib for the 1984 Remembrance events to show solidarity and true Panthic unity #NeverForget84

29 December 2013: SIKH COMMUNITY YOUTH SERVICE (SCYS)

Contact Parm Singh on 07980 596076 for further information.