Hyde Park Rally In June

[UKLondonSikh]

Some attend the annual event as they simply want to REMEMBER and pay their respects to the Shaheeds.

We PROTEST during the MARCH as it is not only about REMEMBRANCE as we have not had JUSTICE. The way we hope to get the message across this year will be more creative, professional etc.

If you have not had JUSTICE then what we need to get across to non-Sikhs and the mainstream media on the 30th anniversary is we want FREEDOM (this will be the main theme).

FREEDOM can and will have many meanings:

FREEDOM for Sikh political prisoners

FREEDOM from the death penalty/hanging

FREEDOM of religion - Article 25

FREEDOM for greater rights - Punjab's water

etc.

AND of course FREEDOM from India

UKL = Khalsa Ji i agree with you on what you say above. However, i think that the word RIGHTS encompasses all the issues you list above and the RIGHT to self-determination is a birthright of all human beings but particularly the Sikh Panth that has suffered and continues to suffer systematic Genocide at the hands of our opponents in Delhi. I 100% strongly believe that UPLIFTMENT of our Panth should be the main goal of what we are trying to achieve with Hyde Park June 2014. I was going to write to Sikh Council on exactly this point but given that you are from the FSO what better person to ask if there is the possiblity of Sarbat Khalsa discussing this issue and weighing it up as to the pro's and con's of the alternating terms suggested for June 2014.

J = Our nishana is still azaad halemi khalsa raj KHALISTAN. I cannot ever deny that while there is even the slightest semblance of breath in my body.

UKL = Agreed bir'ay. After the events of 1984 and thereafter no Sikh should ever feel guilty of desiring self-rule (freedom from GOI terrorism). However, I believe there is tactical merit in us downplaying the obvious at the moment.

J = veere, regarding the state of affairs 29 years on from the bloody assault on our Quom in 1984. We do not live under delusions of grandeur. India's genocide of 300,000+ Sikhs (mostly young, unmarried, teenage to 20's males) in the early 1990's that physically brutally liquidated our freedom movement, which was on the brink of success ( Takht - as per declaration of Shaheed Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Manochahal - Takht ya Taboot ), by killing off the current and future youth of our quom, was incredibly painful.

UKL = 100% agreed

J = We won the battles but lost the war.

UKL = Agreed that our central government adversaries won. And that is why we need to rethink our route map to Victory.

J = We didn't resort to matching the enemy's dirty tactics.

UKL = 100% true bir'ay. Whilst the Khalsa Panth did not shed the blood of any innocent deliberately, Indira Gandhi's Black Cats GOI Terrorist Forces headed by Muhammad Azhar Alam were wholly responsible for the murder of innocent non-Sikh civilians.

J = The hurt continues with this ongoing silent genocide via a seemingly endless inflow of drugs, alcohol, and the quom killing itself through its daughters.

UKL = Agreed bir'ay and I strongly believe we need to address drugs, alcohol, infanticide, illiteracy, poverty, and biraderi cancer as pre-cursors to achieving freedom.

J = But there is a distinct difference between losing and admitting defeat i.e. giving up. We have never admitted defeat, and we are not about to give up anytime soon.

UKL = 100% agreed bir'ay. The Sikh Panth can never fundamentally be defeated. The Sikh Panth will never accept permanent defeat and will never surrender to Oppressors. However, we should not hesitate from tactical retreats if they bring us closer to overall long term victory (which I strongly believe dressing up June 2014 as a Remembrance and Rights Peace March will do - especially if the attendance figures can arguably be tripled as I strongly believe resulting in greater progress for upliftment of the Panth).

J =Now, as for the future; We may well lose many of the battles to come. But of one thing, Guru-Paatshah has made me absolutely nischat sure; WE WILL WIN THE WAR.

UKL = Bilcul bir'ay the Qaum which holds true to Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh knows that ik na ik dhin RAJ KAREGA KHALSA!

J = Apparently I was there as a baby in 1984 but obviously I don't remember anything of it. I remember very fondly the rallies that took place in later years when I was a young child. Starting at Hyde Park, finishing on the Embankment. There was then a gap of about 10 years - never heard about any rally then. No coaches left from the Gurdwara.

UKL = There were always protest marches annually bir'ay but at the height of GOI Black Cats activity some committee's were genuinely confused as to what they should do.

J = Then 2004 happened. First advertisements of a panthic event ever heard on panjaab radio, akaash radio, amrit bani radio stations (there were no Sikh TV channels back then). Huge hype. Coaches went packed from the Gurdwara.

UKL = The only one positive strand where I see we have made progress in the last 29 years is in terms of greater Sikh media presence.

J = I remember meeting an uncle in Hyde Park before the start of the march and asking him why doesn't the remembrance and freedom really happen every year? He was like "it does. This year is just the first time anyone's turned up!!!"

UKL = Tv stations (of which I believe we should have one merged channel btw), radio stations, social networking and internet sites have been a massive help in boosting numbers in recent years.

J = 2004 was massive. 2014 will be even bigger.

UKL = Agreed. But we need to seriously harness June 2014 for the active upliftment of the Panth in practical terms relating to drugs, infanticide, alcohol, biraderi, illiteracy and poverty rather than thinking that slogans alone will do all the work for us. Cold hard money raised coupled with seva ploughed into combatting the modern day forms of Genocide are crucial if we are not to waste the opportunity that June 2014 represents. Basically the game now is about more funds for books rather than bullets.

J = I never understood the meaning of the marches when I was a child, but as a 20-year old I understood very well. Slowly, my whole view of India and the terrorist Indian Flag totally turned on its head. No longer was it a tool to wind up pakistanis. Now I saw it, minus Indian propaganda, for what it was; a symbol of Oppression. The zaalim taranga. I would never support tyrannical Indian rule ever again. I would only support the Khalsa. RAJ KARAYGA KHALSA!

UKL = I hear you bir'ay. Without a doubt our loyalty should only ever be to Nishan Sahib and Sarbat Da Bhala rather than a corrupt terrorist centralised state that oppresses the innocent. The Khalsa Panth is nirvair with love for all within the beautiful spectrum of humanity so desiring freedom from oppression is something that no Sikh should ever have to apologise for. However, I believe we have much LESS to lose (and more to gain) by substituting the word RIGHTS for Freedom and terming the Rally as a "Peace" March.

1. We get more attendance ... i think we can hit 200,000 if we market it as a Remembrance+Rights Peace March.

2. Greater attendance results in greater local and international coverage.

3. We increase Unity internally by virtue of the fact only self-haters could possibly oppose or not participate in a Remembrance and Rights Peace March.

4. By using wording which would make the Rally palatable to GOI's friends such as USA, UK etc then Cameron and the majority of UK politicians that seek Sikh votes in 2015 would have no political option but to endorse the wave towards achieving Justice.

5. Instead of getting Sikh organisations labelled as terrorist outfits we can actively lobby for Overseas Developement Funds to go towards uplifting poor Sikhs.

6. Certain Biraderi Golak committees do not send any representation annually. Via the substitution of one word I think it would be hard for them to stop their own Sangat participating. This is vital if we are going to attempt Gurdwara mergers in the UK as a pre-cursor to ensuring that the Panth only has one saanjha Gurdwara per locality.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/66391-mergers-so-that-only-1-gurdwara-per-local-area/

7. In the context that we are only 7 years away from the 2021 Indian Census and the RSS aim of Sikhs being a minority in the whole of East Punjab by then (not just Doaba where we are currently a minority) I strongly believe that history will judge us very harshly if we don't have the awareness to realise that combatting drugs, biraderi, illiteracy, poverty, infanticide, alcohol + health indicators (cancer/fertility) as vital foundation blocks without which no house of shelter free from GOI terrorism can stand.

8. Those such as Namdhari's, Nirankari's, Radha Soami's, Dera Ballan, Hindu Mandirs and non-Sikhs etc would have no excuse not to engage and support the mainstream Sikh community in our quest for justice and equality for all. Via greater engagement with the said communities we can build bridges as increased parchaar is the best way to turn our erstwhile enemies into future loyal members of the Panth rather than the Congress sycophants many of the leaders of the same currently are.

9. If we can triple attendance out of nowhere in June 2014 on the basis of a Remembrance and "Rights" (Peace) March ... that would give us scope to start claiming it as an "anti-Genocide" march from 2015 onwards which could bring even greater numbers of mainstream UK population participation and provide even greater scope for parchaar and fundraising for uplilftment of our Panth's poorest and most suffering sections and thereafter towards Sarbat Da Bhala.

10. We have to definitely recognise that USA, Russia, UK and France all want a united India as a counterweight to China and export market. China itself illegally annexed the independent nation of Tibet and recognises that Sikhs as a 1.8% minority within India are not worth assisting if a 1.3 billion population export market is jeopardised as a result. Delhi itself realises it cannot relinquish terrorist control of East Punjab so long as Pakistan remains a united nation in its current form. Therefore, given that our Qaum is considerably worse off than we were in 1984 on all the main indices we need to take a seriously different approach rather than simply chanting slogans (which I believe will give the Indian media the chance to paint us as terrorists and actively make things worse on the ground for our brothers and sisters in Punjab). The biggest proof I can give in support of why we urgently need to take a different approach and focus on June 2014 being all about combatting drugs, illiteracy, female infantcide and biraderi is that in this millenium all those issues have got worse year after year. So whilst we think that increased attendance at rallies for Khalistan this millenium have moved us forward, the reality on the ground in Punjab is that every indicator is getting worse. The fact that we Sikhs are a minority in Doaba (where a plebiscite for independence would be roundly voted down) should be a wake up call that we need to get the basics right ... and that we shouldn't run before we can walk in the context that in the years after 1984 there was almost 100% unity within the Qaum and the Kharku Lehar had full support prior to Black Cats and Beanta killing so many innocents. Now we see bakhre bakhre Gurdware. GOI in 1984 was 100 times stronger than the Panth in terms of economic and military resources. GOI is immeasurably stronger today compared to what it was back 30 years. We are immeasurably weaker in our spiritual adherence to Sikhi nowadays and hence talk of Khalistan and freedom is more of a distraction taking our eyes off the ball of the sad reality in front of us that needs to be addressed first. In simple terms, once we have 99% literacy, 99% not partaking in drugs or alcohol, 100% saanjhe Gurdware and Qaum, an equal male/female ratio and poverty eliminated ... self-rule will be a formality as each and every man, woman and child would be willing to give their life to oppose (GOI) terrorism. Obviously, I don't have all the answers bir'ay but this is a subject that Sarbat Khalsa, Sikh Council UK and FSO all need to discuss and decide how we use June 2014 to push the Panth forward short term (and thereby faster towards ultimate freedom from tyranny).

But Jashb bir'ay it's good that for once I don't actually 100% agree with you (as usual) as only by discussing idea's that we can push forwardly unitedly thereafter!

VJKK VJKF

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

SANGAT TV confirm and pledge their support to the FSO for the 8th June 2014 Remembrance March and Freedom Rally in Central London.

To pledge your support please email fso@live.co.uk

Now over 120 Gurdwara's & International Organisations unite under 1 Nishan Sahib for the 1984 Remembrance events to show solidarity and true Panthic unity #NeverForget84

30 December 2013 - SANGAT TV

For further information or to pledge support for the 8th June 2014 Remembrance March and Freedom Rally contact Sangat TV on 0121 760 0000 or email apsmann@sangattelevision.org

[sat]

There is a gathering outside the indian high commission tonight (Dec 31st 2013) in london 5pm to 7pm, i believe and which was reported on sikh channel last night (call sikh channel before you head off to confirm), balloons being released to start the commemoration of the thirtieth year of the 1984 events / hollocaust.

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

There is a gathering outside the indian high commission tonight (Dec 31st 2013) in london 5pm to 7pm, i believe and which was reported on sikh channel last night (call sikh channel before you head off to confirm), balloons being released to start the commemoration of the thirtieth year of the 1984 events / hollocaust.

The 30-minute programme last night on the Sikh Channel was heavily edited and quite confusing. Gurdwaras and Sikh organisations appear not to have been consulted and may not be supporting the event by organising transport. The organisers have provided no details despite several requests.

The organisers who keep emphasising the Sikh identity is not important (!) are expecting mainstream media coverage, but said they had not yet issued a press release!

There was talk of inviting Lords, MPs and interfaith groups on the eve of the event, but it was unclear if contact had been made and any were attending

It is debateable if a protest on New Year's Eve in London involving Chaupai Sahib will attract the mainstream media and non-Sikhs. It is also questionable given many of the public that will be out and about will be preparing to celebrate and bring in the New Year.

The organisers may also be organising a rival event (in Hyde Park) to the Remembrance March and Freedom Rally on Sunday 8 June 2014 being organised by the Federation of Sikh Organisations (FSO) that has widespread support from Gurdwaras and SIkh organisations.

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

There is a gathering outside the indian high commission tonight (Dec 31st 2013) in london 5pm to 7pm, i believe and which was reported on sikh channel last night (call sikh channel before you head off to confirm), balloons being released to start the commemoration of the thirtieth year of the 1984 events / hollocaust.

Did the campaign 84 group with a turnout of around 50 last night put us to shame or do us proud?

[sat]

Did the campaign 84 group with a turnout of around 50 last night put us to shame or do us proud?

clearly you are a supporter of sangat tv from your previous posts (post 72), i dont have more support for any one of the three channels neither am i connected to any of these channels, i merely posted what i watched on sikh channel the other night.

Now to answer your question whether there was only 50 or 500, we should be commending who ever turned up (not myself), their should be no shame in this and pride (ahankar) is not a concept of sikhi, it may have been badly organised and the timing wrong with it being new years eve but the intentions were good.

my question to you is are you trying to say it has brought shame to us because of the turnout of people or are you a supporter of sangat tv trying score points against sikh channel, which would not surprise me as sangat tv does to some very childish acts like turning of sound when another channel is mentioned at smagam by some speaker.

I dont have the time or energy for a channel or the supporters of a channel who behave like kids and until they grow up, i will not support them.

It has brought me no shame or made me proud, but anyone who stands for a just cause gets my respect !!

[gurnam5]

On the whole I seek to keep out of the kinds of petty points being made on discussions like this. As somebody that presented the show in question, I would like to reiterate my position and the position of the Sikh Channel more generally which was iterated during the programme. The position is that unlike our other two Sikh TV channels, the Sikh Channel is NOT controlled by any one of combination of Jathebandis. One has to be a complete <banned word filter activated> not to realise that Akaal is heavily influenced by Mr Badal through his proxies, namely International Panthic Dal, Harnam Dhuma and Rode. We are all aware of their non existent role in the recent campaign by Gurbax Singh Khalsa. In terms of Sangat TV, without the financial backing of FSO, SIkh Federation and Mohinder Singh it would fold tomorrow. Let me make it clear, I have no personal animosity against any of these organisations (except perhaps Dhumma and Rode who have definitely sold out to Hinditva forces now running the SGPC). Indeed, I have immense respect for Bhai Amerik Singh, Bhia Joga Singh and others. And so the SIkh Channel position is that we will support anybody and everybody that is doing something positive for the Panth. We avoit p[etty conflict and certainly we will not be dictated to by any one jathebandhi.

In terms of the 30th anniversary of 1984, I think, as I saidf during the programme, we should let a 1000 flowers bloom, we should support all attempts to raise awareness of 1984, particularly amongst non Sikhs. The Sikh Channel will itself be launching a major awareness raising campaign over the next 6 months and we will be more than happy to support and publice others doing similar work.

So my appeal to all my brothers and sisters is, do not dissipate your/owr energy in petty rivalries and if you cant support each other then please don't undermine either.

Guru Fateh and happy new year to all.

Dr Gurnam Singh

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

AKAAL CHANNEL confirm and pledge their support to the FSO for the 8th June 2014 Remembrance march and Freedom Rally in Central London.

So far over 120 UK Gurdwaras & organisations are united under 1 Nishan Sahib for the 1984 Remembrance events to show solidarity and true Panthic unity #NeverForget84

The number is expected to exceed 200 UK Gurdwaras and organisations. To pledge your support please email fso@live.co.uk

31 December 2013 - AKAAL CHANNELFor further information or to pledge support for the 8th June 2014 Remembrance March and Freedom Rally contact Akaal Channel on 0121 551 1001 or email info@akaalchannel.tv

[JagtarSinghKhalsa]

clearly you are a supporter of sangat tv from your previous posts (post 72), i dont have more support for any one of the three channels neither am i connected to any of these channels, i merely posted what i watched on sikh channel the other night.

Now to answer your question whether there was only 50 or 500, we should be commending who ever turned up (not myself), their should be no shame in this and pride (ahankar) is not a concept of sikhi, it may have been badly organised and the timing wrong with it being new years eve but the intentions were good.

my question to you is are you trying to say it has brought shame to us because of the turnout of people or are you a supporter of sangat tv trying score points against sikh channel, which would not surprise me as sangat tv does to some very childish acts like turning of sound when another channel is mentioned at smagam by some speaker.

I dont have the time or energy for a channel or the supporters of a channel who behave like kids and until they grow up, i will not support them.

It has brought me no shame or made me proud, but anyone who stands for a just cause gets my respect !!

See post 78 this relates to Akaal Channel. Sikh Channel has also confirmed in writing it will cover the 8 June event.

We have been posting one organisation a day and said we do this for 30 days, then one Gurdwara a day for 60 days to show support for 8 June event (see post 34).

The organisers of the evnt last night who invited the mainstream media and were looking to reach non-Sikhs should also try and ensure a reasonable turnout so as not to inadvertently damage the 30th anniversary campaign.

[jashb]

clearly you are a supporter of sangat tv from your previous posts (post 72), i dont have more support for any one of the three channels neither am i connected to any of these channels, i merely posted what i watched on sikh channel the other night.

Now to answer your question whether there was only 50 or 500, we should be commending who ever turned up (not myself), their should be no shame in this and pride (ahankar) is not a concept of sikhi, it may have been badly organised and the timing wrong with it being new years eve but the intentions were good.

my question to you is are you trying to say it has brought shame to us because of the turnout of people or are you a supporter of sangat tv trying score points against sikh channel, which would not surprise me as sangat tv does to some very childish acts like turning of sound when another channel is mentioned at smagam by some speaker.

I dont have the time or energy for a channel or the supporters of a channel who behave like kids and until they grow up, i will not support them.

It has brought me no shame or made me proud, but anyone who stands for a just cause gets my respect !!

Sat veeray, pehla poora thread parrhlo. Khaas karke, post #1 to leke, #32 takk;

Given the level of support for the event being organised by the Federation of Sikh Organisations (FSO) on Sunday 8 June 2014, the organisers of the (rival) 1 June event are getting a bit hot under the collar - rather than focusing positive efforts on planning their own event they are running off to the GLA and asking about permissions for the 8 June event and spreading negativity and doubt.

For the record the event being PLANNED for Sunday 8 June is subject to various permissions (probably also the case for the event on 1 June) as is the case with all events until licences, permissions, liability insurance etc. are all issued.

Fer mind banalo, ke do event honai chahide aa, ke ik!

Main tan moorakh han, but ehna tan mainu vi pata hi aa, ke ekta sameh di mukh lorrh hai, eho jihe petty differences karke avda bakhra event bana dena, oh vi, jithe bass 2 1/2 bandhe hi ponchan, jis nu koi support hi na karda hove, te SSGGSJM de agge kiti hoi ardas nu torr ke! Eho jihe kartootan naal sangat nu confuse kardhe aa, te poore kaum nu moorakh banaundhe aa. Sanu eho jihe jaal 'ch nahin fasna chahida veeray!