Takht No To ‘Patit’ Sikhs In Gurdwara Panels Abroad

[JinUzuki]

Trying to scare Sikhs sangat with fable legal jargon? Not going to work because this is about suitability and qualification according to Sikh religion principles. Just as IBM or another corporation will not hire a board that don't have a clue about business management neither will the Sikh religion allow such unqualified people abuse non-profit organizations run under the Sikh religion. Apply your feeble statements to the Constitution of common law countries. Why don't Mona put on a Kirpan and try to claim they are allowed to wear the Kirpan in public according to the Constitution given freedoms and rights? Yet an amritdhari can walk into a certain countries court house and Parliament with a Kirpan and they have the full right?

Before you come to play hardball get a pair at least.

I think you mean feeble, not fable, and if you don't understand what I wrote then yes it is jargon to you but that doesn't change the fact that it is indeed true. Why would you assume I am trying to 'scare' Sikhs, I am simply stating what is true. And you comments about IBM are correct, they would NEVER ELECT a board who are not qualified BUT they will let ANYONE run for a board position, speak on why they deserve they position, speak on their merit and would NOT be disallowed due to any religious/cultural deficiencies. They would be selected on their suitability much like you say. Saying someone who is 'less Sikh' is less qualified to contribute to a Gurdwara board in a meaningful manner is complete nonsense. With regards to common law countries, India is in fact a common law country, much like Canada and the US and also the UK. I'm not sure what you're trying to get across with your last statement about kirpans and monas...

And I can assure you, I can play hardball with the best of them and my testicles are indeed intact and fully grown for your information.

[Jivan76]

Chatanga and jinuzuki

Respectfully bhaji's i must say that the semantic gymnastics being played are quite plain to see.

As I read the letter signed by four Singh Sahibans I understood it for what it was. Any member must be Amritdhari......end of.

Jinnai memberaa de naam pishau Singh lagda Sabat Soorat attae Amritdhari hovai.

These are not seperate criteria but a list.....therefore Singh plus clearly visible Amritdhari.

We in the west plead for tough strong statements yet when they are given we find ways to misunderstand them.

[Jivan76]

Jinuzuki

Bhaiji again with the utmost respect;

By your logic any atheist or member of a religion can become a committee member because they have a legal right??

As most Gurdwaras are registered charities they are bound by equal opportunities legislation, however, a candidates suitability will be decided by election.....therefore our Sangats must be prepared and enlightened to select correctly as per hukkamnama.

Can discrimination be alleged against an electorate??

I think not

[JinUzuki]

Jinuzuki

Bhaiji again with the utmost respect;

By your logic any atheist or member of a religion can become a committee member because they have a legal right??

As most Gurdwaras are registered charities they are bound by equal opportunities legislation, however, a candidates suitability will be decided by election.....therefore our Sangats must be prepared and enlightened to select correctly as per hukkamnama.

Can discrimination be alleged against an electorate??

I think not

You are correct discrimination can not be alleged by an electorate. All I am trying to say is that regardless of the last Akal Thakt statement any member of the sangat can run for a position and it will be up to the sangat to vote in who they deem fit. If this individual happens to be for example a young member of the community who is eager to help and is not baptized the director of the gurdwara cannot kick this individual off the committee simply because they do not conform to the message sent out by the Akal Thakt. If the enlightened members of the sangat have chosen this individual so be it. If they decide to vote based upon the hukamnama that is of course their choice as well. As for the atheist it is possible for one to be voted in but let's be honest they'd probably have little to no interest and a tough time getting votes.

I do appreciate your comment and understand your position, thank you.

[Jivan76]

Bhaiji JinUzuki

Allow me to apologise in advance if I appear to be singling you out as that is far far from my intention.

The letter from Sri Akal Takht is addressed to the Samoo Saadh Sangat, to inform them of the criteria for candidates. Therefore it is the Guru Roop Ki Sangat's responsibility to ensure only correct Maryada Rehat Singhs are elected. This then negates all need for controversy post election, as each member of the committee is considered worthy by authority of the Sangat.

The Sangat is responsible for their committee formation. In short, every Sikh is expected to adhere to Sri Akal Takht so that means as per directive they cannot vote for a non Amritdhari, if they do then the entire Sangat of the Gurdwara is culpable in heresy, as opposed to it falling upon the shoulders of the committee to start arguing over who can and can't be a member.

I maybe being over simplistic in my understanding of the procedures of following Hukamnanai but isn't that the reason we have them? So as an educated and informed decision can be made without the need for squabbling after the election and inviting ridicule and disturbance once the Sangat has made its point of selecting its sevardars.

Once again Bhaiji bhul chuk maaf karna

[jaspreet1]

I think you mean feeble, not fable, and if you don't understand what I wrote then yes it is jargon to you but that doesn't change the fact that it is indeed true. Why would you assume I am trying to 'scare' Sikhs, I am simply stating what is true. And you comments about IBM are correct, they would NEVER ELECT a board who are not qualified BUT they will let ANYONE run for a board position, speak on why they deserve they position, speak on their merit and would NOT be disallowed due to any religious/cultural deficiencies. They would be selected on their suitability much like you say. Saying someone who is 'less Sikh' is less qualified to contribute to a Gurdwara board in a meaningful manner is complete nonsense. With regards to common law countries, India is in fact a common law country, much like Canada and the US and also the UK. I'm not sure what you're trying to get across with your last statement about kirpans and monas...

And I can assure you, I can play hardball with the best of them and my testicles are indeed intact and fully grown for your information.

First two pair was not referring to manhood, but referring to poker and your weak attempt at trying to "legally" corner the truth from being suppressed.

Secondly, look up the word fable and then try to correct others.

Obviously your understanding of law is very weak. I'm thinking your a mona, if not get one of your mona friends to walk into Parliament with a Kirpan on and see what happens to his "right to wear a Kirpan". Law states that Amridhari Sikhs can wear the Kirpan and those that are not Amritdhari. They cannot wear it. Supreme Law (Constitution) has accepted certain religious qualifications as rights and freedoms for certain members of the Sikh religion. Which gives force and effect to qualification parameters to laws under the Constitution. For example an Amritdhari can have a beard and not be asked to remove it for certain occupations where they require a person to remove facial hair. But a mona cannot claim the same right to have a beard just on the right he claims to be a Sikh. Qualification for religious organizations are different than secular organizations.

[Jivan76]

I'm thinking your a mona, if not.........

Bhaiji surely this makes no sense if our behaviour is similar to those we intend to enlighten...

By that I don't intend to suggest that veerji jinuzuzi is in need of enlightening or orherwise, as I am not qualified to make such assumptions.

Jaspreet bhaiji this is not intended as a sleight of your good character either.

Have been reading these forums for a month or two now and some of the topics whilst most necessary, fast become mired in slanging matches between brothers and sisters while losing sight of the point.

[jaspreet1]

Jivan is English your third language? Do you see how you have misunderstood what I said to Jin? Not only have you misunderstood, but selectively cut a sentence to shame me for something I did not do.

[Jivan76]

Jaspreet bhaiji you have begun your reply by insulting and judging my grasp of the English language. Your assumptions both of my lingual ability and/or someone elses appearance take away any merit that may have been due to your post.

Therefore you have missed my point entirely.

I now bid you Gurfateh and respectfully decline your overtures to invite a debate upon anything other than the topic of discussion (see thread title).

[jaspreet1]

Instead of asking for clarification you went on to shame me. Now you know how it feels to be accused without merit. Also you demonstrate that you don't know when someone is giving an example to prove a point. The whole point for asking whether he is a mona is for him to test his weak understanding of the law by walking into Parliament with a Kirpan on. So he feels the effect of the law and won't make baseless statements ever again. There was no assumption but an example was explained. It's called put your money where your mouth is. Something with merit cannot be devalued simply because you could not understand what was said and then made a complete humiliation out of yourself.

You don't get to say when this discussion is over because you tried to accuse me of something I did not do. I have the right to clarify what you did, whether you like it or not. You took this topic off track and now you are warning me to get back on topic? I don't know which planet you live on, but you messed with the wrong person. In the past you might have gotten away with trying to shame others without merit, but not this time. You can hide your face on the internet, but Guru Sahib is watching your behaviour very closely.