Is Guru Granth Sahib Your Teacher / Guide Or Is It A Diety

[savinderpalsingh]

that is shabad and Guru Granth Sahib ji is shabad

[sunnyji]

that is shabad and Guru Granth Sahib ji is shabad

I know, I'm not disputing that, I'm disagreeing with the statement that the "Guru is God", which is very misleading. In a sense, we are all God as God is everything, but it's wrong to say the Guru is an avatar/incarnation of Waheguru.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[jaspreet1]

When I read passages about the Guru "being" God, I believe that means the Gurus have the light of God. Equally, so do we all, as God is everything and pervades all matter and the universe, but the Gurus were on such a high spiritual enlightenment and had such a deep connection with Waheguru that they could guide the rest of us.

It's a very deep, complex issue, but I personally don't like to say the Gurus "are" God, because then people take that to mean Gurus are incarnations of God, and that limits perception of the almighty to just one physical entity. That's a concept which Guru Nanak Dev Ji rejected - God does not come down to Earth as incarnations (Ram, Krishna etc), but we are all part of God.

What I have made bold in the above shows lack of understand of absolute statements. Here is an example, if science says gravity is the force that holds everything in place. You have two choices either to agree with the statement as it is or disagree with it. You cannot change the translation to mean anything else because the statement is completely clear on what it is stating. It is an absolute statement. It did not state science says gravity is LIKE the force that holds everything in place. It says, "is".

More than once Gurbani has said the Guru IS God. But all it would take is one of these lines in Gurbani to show any person that an absolute statement has been made and their is only two ways around it. Either reject it or accept what is being said completely. Being a Sikh, you cannot reject any of Gurbani.

[sunnyji]

What I have made bold in the above shows lack of understand of absolute statements. Here is an example, if science says gravity is the force that holds everything in place. You have two choices either to agree with the statement as it is or disagree with it. You cannot change the translation to mean anything else because the statement is completely clear on what it is stating. It is an absolute statement. It did not state science says gravity is LIKE the force that holds everything in place. It says, "is".

More than once Gurbani has said the Guru IS God. But all it would take is one of these lines in Gurbani to show any person that an absolute statement has been made and their is only two ways around it. Either reject it or accept what is being said completely. Being a Sikh, you cannot reject any of Gurbani.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's not an absolute statement. With regards to your allegory of gravity, that's different, science is much more objective than Sikhi; but anyway, that's something else altogether.

I'm not rejecting Gurbani, I'm interpreting it. You can't take Gurbani literally, it's riddled with metaphors which allude to different concepts of reality and truth, and you have to interpret it in the best way you can. So as I said before, my understanding of the Guru "being" God means the Guru has the light of God, not that the Guru is an incarnation/avatar of God. As far as I know, Basics of Sikhi's YouTube channel does a better job of explaining this than I do :biggrin2:

[AmanSingh1867]

What I have made bold in the above shows lack of understand of absolute statements. Here is an example, if science says gravity is the force that holds everything in place. You have two choices either to agree with the statement as it is or disagree with it. You cannot change the translation to mean anything else because the statement is completely clear on what it is stating. It is an absolute statement. It did not state science says gravity is LIKE the force that holds everything in place. It says, "is".

More than once Gurbani has said the Guru IS God. But all it would take is one of these lines in Gurbani to show any person that an absolute statement has been made and their is only two ways around it. Either reject it or accept what is being said completely. Being a Sikh, you cannot reject any of Gurbani.

I disagree.

Gurbani also says that mortals can become "the very image of God."

So are we also God?

[GPS]

We cann't fix parameters of God. He neither has any limitations.

Let us not talk about our Guru Sahibans as they were supreme entity.Even ordinary mortals on realizing God become just like him.

Read below from SGGS ji

ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਏਕੁ ਆਪਿ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਸੋ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਜੋ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਧਿਆਇਦਾ ॥੭॥

The One Imperishable Lord Himself is unmoving and unchanging. Meditating on Him, one becomes unchanging. ||7||

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਸੋ ਹਰਿ ਜੇਹਾ

The Lord's servant becomes like the Lord.

ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਮਾਣਸ ਦੇਹਾ

Do not think that, because of his human body, he is different.

SGGS ji

[Sat1176]

SGGS Ang 930

Listen, O Pandit, O religious scholar, why are you writing about worldly debates?

sun paaday ki-aa likhahu janjaalaa.

As Gurmukh, write only the Name of the Lord, the Lord of the World.

likh raam naam gurmukh gopaalaa.

Become Gurmukh, and obtain the real thing; gather the gems and pearls.

gurmukh vasat paraapat hovai chun lai maanak motee.

If one understands, realizes and comprehends what he reads and studies, in the end he shall realize that the True Lord dwells deep within his nucleus.

samjhai soojhai parh parh boojhai ant nirantar saachaa.

In love with duality, spiritual wisdom is lost; the mortal rots away in pride, and eats poison.

nyi-aan gavaa-i-aa doojaa bhaa-i-aa garab galay bikh khaa-i-aa.

He thinks that the sublime essence of the Guru`s song is useless, and he does not like to hear it. He loses the profound, unfathomable Lord.

gur ras geet baad nahee bhaavai sunee-ai gahir gambheer gavaa-i-aa.

Through the Guru`s Words of Truth, the Ambrosial Nectar is obtained, and the mind and body find joy in the True Lord. gur sach kahi-aa amrit lahi-aa man tan saach sukhaa-i-aa.

He Himself is the Gurmukh, and He Himself bestows the Ambrosial Nectar; He Himself leads us to drink it in.

aapay gurmukh aapay dayvai aapay amrit pee-aa-i-aa.

Everyone says that God is the One and only, but they are engrossed in egotism and pride.

ayko ayk kahai sabh ko-ee ha-umai garab vi-aapai.

Realize that the One God is inside and outside; understand this, that the Mansion of His Presence is within the home of your heart.

antar baahar ayk pachhaanai i-o ghar mahal sinjaapai.

God is near at hand; do not think that God is far away. The One Lord permeates the entire universe.

parabh nayrhai har door na jaanhu ayko sarisat sabaa-ee.

There in One Universal Creator Lord; there is no other at all. O Nanak, merge into the One Lord.

aykankaar avar nahee doojaa naanak ayk samaa-ee.

The One Lord is in all actions, colors and forms.

ayk achaar rang ik roop.

He manifests in many shapes through wind, water and fire.

pa-un paanee agnee asroop.

The One Soul wanders through the three worlds.

ayko bhavar bhavai tihu lo-ay.

One who understands and comprehends the One Lord is honored.

ayko boojhai soojhai pat ho-ay.

One who gathers in spiritual wisdom and meditation, dwells in the state of balance.

gi-aan Dhi-aan lay samsar rahai.

In the Gurdwara, the Guru`s Door, they speak and hear of the Lord.

guroo du-aarai aakh sunaa-ay

His Light illuminates the ocean and the earth.

ooram Dhooram jot ujaalaa.

The Lord reveals His various forms;

oogvi-aa asroop dikhaavai.

granting His Grace, He enters the home of the heart.

kar kirpaa apunai ghar aavai.

The clouds hang low, and the rain is pouring down.

oonav barsai neejhar Dhaaraa.

The Lord embellishes and exalts with the Sublime Word of the Shabad.

ootam sabad savaaranhaaraa.

One who knows the mystery of the One God,

is aykay kaa jaanai bhay-o.

is Himself the Creator, Himself the Divine Lord.

aapay kartaa aapay day-o.

When the sun rises, the demons are slain;

ugvai soor asur sanghaarai.

the mortal looks upwards, and contemplates the Shabad.

oocha-o daykh sabad beechaarai.

[savinderpalsingh]

I disagree.

Gurbani also says that mortals can become "the very image of God."

So are we also God?

please take santhya , before you start to do qintu parantu on Gurbani

another kala afghana on the rise here

gets on my nerves

[GPS]

From above gurbani quotes it is clear that God realization is by Naam japna. Sikhs have been

following that path for over 500 years and know that naam japna is by repitition of Gurmantra

waheguru.

Missionaries are babies having born say 30 years ago. They call this parroting.Thus discarding

over 500 years of sikh traditions.

This one line trashes their whole nastik ideology

ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਏਕੁ ਆਪਿ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਸੋ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਜੋ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਧਿਆਇਦਾ ॥੭॥

The One Imperishable Lord Himself is unmoving and unchanging. Meditating on Him, one becomes unchanging. ||7||

Hope they get it.

[Sat1176]

Ang 663

The Divine Light is within everyone; You are that Light.

sabh meh jot jot hai so-ay.

Yours is that Light which shines within everyone.

tis kai chaanan sabh meh chaanan ho-ay.

By the Guru`s Teachings, this Divine Light is revealed.

gur saakhee jot pargat ho-ay.