Sikhs Who Have Become Agnostic

[Big_Tera]

Well its been quite a while now since the issue has been in the public eye. With all the news stories of Sikh Girls and Boys leaving the faith.

I was wondering now after all the awareness campaigns and education that has been given out ie via social media and websites.

Has it made a difference are we seeing less Sikhs leave the faith?? Im not just talking about those who convert to other religions but Sikhs who have basically become agnostic and don't believe in any religion which seems to be the trend of modern society.

If so how to combat this?

How I see it is we have a big problem of vulnerable families that are so broken. outsiders can easily take advantage of the kids. ie the parents are so busy fighting each other. that the kids are rebelling and getting up to all sorts.

the way I see it there are many families that have a nuclear family structure. And if there are no strong leaders in the household. The family will eventually crumble. this will lead to the kids leaving the faith also.

[ms514]

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Bhai Sahib Jasbir Singh Khalsa used to have principles of doing parchar. The one that I actually remember was "Elaakae Di Sambhaal" - managing your are.

Our concept of parchar is somewhat backward. We have this expectation that some great leader will emerge and save the Panth in one fell swoop. While the Almighty is certainly capable of doing that (and anything), we have to understand that the sustained, continuous effort goes from the smallest unit upwards. Each step below will impact the next step.

Completely agree: It all starts from home (and yourself).

1) Self - sort yourself out - Mun Jeetai, Jug Jeet - if you are able to control your own mind, you can conquer the world. While this is a VERY HIGH state to totally conquer the mind, your own adherence to Sikhi - being an Amritdhari Gursikh, following Rehat and Gurbani, is key to having an impact on family.

2) Family - if you, as a family, make a concerted effort to support each other, you will establish a fortress of Sikhi in your own home. Bhai Gurdas Sahib says that 1 Sikh is a Sikh, 2 Sikhs are Sadh Sangat and 5 are Punji Parmeshwar. Even if just husband and wife, your efforts to support each other will stand as an example to the community.

3) Sikh Community - as your family works in the local Sikh community, you stand as a beacon by which the community can be inspired. Simply going to the Gurudwara, sitting in Sangat and being a Sikh will inspire others. Do seva in the Gurudwara, participate in the Paath, Keertan, be involved in community service.

4) Inter-community - various local communitiy events - nagar keertans, Keertan divans, Akhand Paaths - your Gursikh community, by attending events together. The local Gursikh community can be an inspiration for other communities and drive forth their desires to become better Gursikhs.

Notwithstanding Gurudwara committees and personal ego to become roadblocks - they will always be present. Principle of Kalyug is to try to prevent Gurmat from spreading - being diligent, patient and true to Sikhi can overcome this.

[SSD]

Well its been quite a while now since the issue has been in the public eye. With all the news stories of Sikh Girls and Boys leaving the faith.

I was wondering now after all the awareness campaigns and education that has been given out ie via social media and websites.

Has it made a difference are we seeing less Sikhs leave the faith?? Im not just talking about those who convert to other religions but Sikhs who have basically become agnostic and don't believe in any religion which seems to be the trend of modern society.

If so how to combat this?

How I see it is we have a big problem of vulnerable families that are so broken. outsiders can easily take advantage of the kids. ie the parents are so busy fighting each other. that the kids are rebelling and getting up to all sorts.

the way I see it there are many families that have a nuclear family structure. And if there are no strong leaders in the household. The family will eventually crumble. this will lead to the kids leaving the faith also.

You sadly can't combat it, it's a trust issue with the Sikhs, their family were probably drunkards, abusers, or they just have in-fighting. The Sikhs are a highly respected group in any society, even in some racist areas. I've seen people say,"The Sikhs are the only non-Westerners I respect" or "I wish Sikhs ruled instead of the Jews", or "If I could believe in God, I would be a Sikh", we are respected by the societies we come from; however, the families of the individual aren't very respected. Let us take 3HO for example, they are trying to follow Sikhi with their little yoga(if we excommunicate with them based on this, we should excommunicate all the Nihangs for Bhang consumption). We argue on stuff we already know the answer to. Such as Raagmala, chairs, and meat. Did Bhai Fauja Singh argue on Raagmala when he and some Taksalis went to give Shaheedi? Why is this an issue now? Did the Nihangs who gave Shaheedi argue on meat? More importantly did the Babbar Khalsa argue on whether you believed Amrit was about Mukti or Naam? We've started thinking on non-issues.

[SSD]

You sadly can't combat it, it's a trust issue with the Sikhs, their family were probably drunkards, abusers, or they just have in-fighting. The Sikhs are a highly respected group in any society, even in some racist areas. I've seen people say,"The Sikhs are the only non-Westerners I respect" or "I wish Sikhs ruled instead of the Jews", or "If I could believe in God, I would be a Sikh", we are respected by the societies we come from; however, the families of the individual aren't very respected. Let us take 3HO for example, they are trying to follow Sikhi with their little yoga(if we excommunicate with them based on this, we should excommunicate all the Nihangs for Bhang consumption). We argue on stuff we already know the answer to. Such as Raagmala, chairs, and meat. Did Bhai Fauja Singh argue on Raagmala when he and some Taksalis went to give Shaheedi? Why is this an issue now? Did the Nihangs who gave Shaheedi argue on meat? More importantly did the Babbar Khalsa argue on whether you believed Amrit was about Mukti or Naam? We've started thinking on non-issues.

just so you know, these non-issues only became an issue when Indria Gandhi had the plan to destroy Sikhi, the Indian government put these issues in place, even when the Akal Takht Maryada already is very clear and optional on most of these issues.

[singhbj singh]

Well its been quite a while now since the issue has been in the public eye. With all the news stories of Sikh Girls and Boys leaving the faith.

I was wondering now after all the awareness campaigns and education that has been given out ie via social media and websites.

Has it made a difference are we seeing less Sikhs leave the faith?? Im not just talking about those who convert to other religions but Sikhs who have basically become agnostic and don't believe in any religion which seems to be the trend of modern society.

If so how to combat this?

How I see it is we have a big problem of vulnerable families that are so broken. outsiders can easily take advantage of the kids. ie the parents are so busy fighting each other. that the kids are rebelling and getting up to all sorts.

the way I see it there are many families that have a nuclear family structure. And if there are no strong leaders in the household. The family will eventually crumble. this will lead to the kids leaving the faith also.

Hypocrisy doesn't promote Religion.

Nowdays there is a big difference in what people preach & practice.

Nobody will follow, unless you lead by example.

[SSD]

Hypocrisy doesn't promote Religion.

Nowdays there is a big difference in what people preach & practice.

Nobody will follow, unless you lead by example.

that explains Christianity and Islam, but fails to realize Sikhi, because Sikhi is about practice(which is why we have a nitnem).

[singhbj singh]

Majority of Sardars are Sikh by birth & not by choice.

Unless we meet this criteria

ਮਃ ੪ ॥

Ma 4 ||

मः ४ ॥

Fourth Mehl:

1 ਪੰ. ੧੬

Page:305 Line: 16

ਗੁਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਜੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਅਖਾਏ ਸੁ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥

Gur Sathigur Kaa Jo Sikh Akhaaeae S Bhalakae Outh Har Naam Dhhiaavai ||

गुर सतिगुर का जो सिखु अखाए सु भलके उठि हरि नामु धिआवै ॥

One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru the True Guru shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

2 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੬

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Page:305 Line: 16

ਉਦਮੁ ਕਰੇ ਭਲਕੇ ਪਰਭਾਤੀ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਰਿ ਨਾਵੈ ॥

Oudham Karae Bhalakae Parabhaathee Eisanaan Karae Anmrith Sar Naavai ||

उदमु करे भलके परभाती इसनानु करे अम्रित सरि नावै ॥

Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

3 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੭

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Page:305 Line: 17

ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਜਪੁ ਜਾਪੈ ਸਭਿ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਦੋਖ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵੈ ॥

Oupadhaes Guroo Har Har Jap Jaapai Sabh Kilavikh Paap Dhokh Lehi Jaavai ||

उपदेसि गुरू हरि हरि जपु जापै सभि किलविख पाप दोख लहि जावै ॥

Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

4 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੮

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Page:305 Line: 18

ਫਿਰਿ ਚੜੈ ਦਿਵਸੁ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਗਾਵੈ ਬਹਦਿਆ ਉਠਦਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵੈ ॥

Fir Charrai Dhivas Gurabaanee Gaavai Behadhiaa Outhadhiaa Har Naam Dhhiaavai ||

फिरि चड़ै दिवसु गुरबाणी गावै बहदिआ उठदिआ हरि नामु धिआवै ॥

Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

5 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੮

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Page:305 Line: 18

ਜੋ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਧਿਆਏ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥

Jo Saas Giraas Dhhiaaeae Maeraa Har Har So Gurasikh Guroo Man Bhaavai ||

जो सासि गिरासि धिआए मेरा हरि हरि सो गुरसिखु गुरू मनि भावै ॥

One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

6 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੫ ਪੰ. ੧੯

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Page:305 Line: 19

ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦਇਆਲੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਗੁਰੂ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਸੁਣਾਵੈ ॥

Jis No Dhaeiaal Hovai Maeraa Suaamee This Gurasikh Guroo Oupadhaes Sunaavai ||

जिस नो दइआलु होवै मेरा सुआमी तिसु गुरसिख गुरू उपदेसु सुणावै ॥

That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.

7 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੬ ਪੰ. ੧

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Page:306 Line: 1

ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਧੂੜਿ ਮੰਗੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਆਪਿ ਜਪੈ ਅਵਰਹ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ ॥੨॥

Jan Naanak Dhhoorr Mangai This Gurasikh Kee Jo Aap Japai Avareh Naam Japaavai ||2||

जनु नानकु धूड़ि मंगै तिसु गुरसिख की जो आपि जपै अवरह नामु जपावै ॥२॥

Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2||

8 ਗਉੜੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ:੧ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੩੦੬ ਪੰ. ੨

Raag Gauri Guru Ram Das Page:306 Line: 2

Source - http://searchgurbani.com/scriptures/ggs_shabad/1152/line/2

We are not Gursikhs irrespective of Nitnem, Bana, Shasters & Bibek.

So unless we practice Gurbani we are all frauds !

No Guru bigger then Sri Guru Granth Sahib jeeo.

[singhbj singh]

Just found an excellant quote & picture -

"Your beliefs don't make you a better person. Your behaviour does."

[singhbj singh]

Another verse from Gurbani defining whose Gursikh

ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥

Sorath Mehalaa 3 ||

सोरठि महला ३ ॥

Sorat'h, Third Mehl:

1 ਪੰ. ੧੮

Page:601 Line: 18

ਸੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਖਾ ਬੰਧਪੁ ਹੈ ਭਾਈ ਜਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਭਾਣੇ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਵੈ ॥

So Sikh Sakhaa Bandhhap Hai Bhaaee J Gur Kae Bhaanae Vich Aavai ||

सो सिखु सखा बंधपु है भाई जि गुर के भाणे विचि आवै ॥

He alone is a Sikh, a friend, a relative and a sibling, who walks in the Way of the Guru's Will.

2 ਸੋਰਠਿ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੬੦੧ ਪੰ. ੧੮

Raag Sorath Guru Amar Das Page:601 Line: 18

ਆਪਣੈ ਭਾਣੈ ਜੋ ਚਲੈ ਭਾਈ ਵਿਛੁੜਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਖਾਵੈ ॥

Aapanai Bhaanai Jo Chalai Bhaaee Vishhurr Chottaa Khaavai ||

आपणै भाणै जो चलै भाई विछुड़ि चोटा खावै ॥

One who walks according to his own will, O Siblings of Destiny, suffers separation from the Lord, and shall be punished.

3 ਸੋਰਠਿ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੬੦੧ ਪੰ. ੧੮

Raag Sorath Guru Amar Das Page:601 Line: 18

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੁਖੁ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ਭਾਈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਪਛੋਤਾਵੈ ॥੧॥

Bin Sathigur Sukh Kadhae N Paavai Bhaaee Fir Fir Pashhothaavai ||1||

बिनु सतिगुर सुखु कदे न पावै भाई फिरि फिरि पछोतावै ॥१॥

Without the True Guru, peace is never obtained, O Siblings of Destiny; again and again, he regrets and repents. ||1||

4 ਸੋਰਠਿ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੬੦੧ ਪੰ. ੧੯

Raag Sorath Guru Amar Das Page:601 Line: 19

Source - http://searchgurbani.com/scriptures/ggs_shabad/2284/line/2