Why Muslim Punjabis Are Future Of The Punjabi Peoples Globally

[jkvlondon]

Of course not JKV Ji. We all know that the Dhillon family who control the Radha Swami financial empire and Sidhu the rapist who operates the Dera Sirsa franchise is an evil cheat and on a private level we can admit that Gurbachana's death was good riddance to a dusht who killed innocent Shaheeds BUT we have to accept the reality that the millions of followers these Dera's all command nowadays are not all bad people, the innocent followers are not all against us and we have to navigate the best course of action to re-integrate them back within mainstream Sikhi over time. Decrying the innocent followers as non-Sikhs and alienating them further away from Sikhi will achieve nothing beneficial for the Sikh Panth. But it will help our opponents get closer to the day that not even 50% of east Punjab declares itself as Sikh. As for all those that attend Gurdwara's, regardless of their supposed family backgrounds, I do regard them as brother and sister Sikhs as I find it suicidal for us as a globally small community to be terming millions of those who attend Gurdwara's as non-Sikhs. No other religion does this and our opponents rejoice at our short-sightedness. When we don't accept good people within our ranks, we essentially push them into the arms of our enemies. Any time someone without the name Singh or Kaur steps foot into a Gurdwara we should build upon increasing their sense of belonging to the Panth rather than alienating people away from Sikhi.

the solution is to do parchaar and let those misled by such scum come back to the true path of Sikhi not dilute our standards to make some manmat headcounters happy . I want to see true blue Gursikhs not lukewarm waverers. You sound like you don't trust Guru Gobind Singh ji's bachan , cut down one Khalsa and two will spring up in that Khalsa's place, also 96 million Khalsa will rule the Earth , that Khalsa Raj will be a halemi raj and every human will prosper and Know the tuth of Akal Purakh's love.

[DTF]

JKV Bhenji i don't quite see how accepting those that bow before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as sehajdhari Sikhs hurts our Panth's interests in any way. Given that Amritdhari Sikhs who abstain from alcohol and so on (ie what we can term true Gursikhs) account for no more than arguably 3% of east Punjab's population (if we generously assume that 5% of the Sikh population in East Punjab live according to Rehit) then the inevitable consequence of that is that the political objectives of those that seek justice, equality and Sarbat Da Bhalla (ie the small minority of Gursikhs within the wider overall Panth) will be frustrated forever by the corrupt elements able to manipulate the majority in a democracy. If all those Punjabi's that attend Gurdwara's - arguably 95% of the east Punjab population - all genuinely feel that they are all Sikhs and stakeholders within the Sikh Panth, then there is a future possibility of Sarbat Da Bhalla coming to fruition in east Punjab by governance in accordance with Gurmat values as well as Khalsa Raj across all of present day India if we can increase our numbers and influence accordingly.

The higher the population numbers of general Sikhs there are, the greater the number of true Amritdhari's will arise.

If we are serious about wanting to see 96 million Khalsa in the future then that won't really occur when we look for every possible reason to exclude someone as a fellow Sikh, even going to the extent of looking at some members of Gurdwara Sangat as non-Sikhs. Given that Earth's population will rise to 9.6billion people in the future, even a force of 96 million members of the Khalsa Panth would only be 1% of the global population. Inevitably, even that 1% would need the democratic and civil support of a vastly increased population of the wider Sikh Panth and allies. Amritdhari standards are not in any way diluted by greater numbers of sehajdhari Sikhs from where the Panth's new Amritdhari's can arise. I do agree that when it comes to the Khalsa Panth, quality rather than simply quantity is paramount.

VJKK VJKF

[Ranjeet01]

A lot of people in Punjab and India generally have fluid belief systems. People who claim to be Radha Soami will go to Gurdwaras and listen to path. People in Punjab who go to Gurdwaras have sufi shrines in their villages and give offerings to the the particular Pir of the villages.

If Christianity was left to it's own devices without being politically manipulated by foreign organisations as a method of soul harvesting and therefore colonising, Jesus would be a devta in India, worshipped like a murti amongst the panthen of Siva, Vishnu, Kali, Durga etc etc.

Historically, nobody really on the Subcontinent kept records of how many Sikh, Muslim, Hindu there were. This has been introduced by the British as a way of divide and rule to keep statistics. Also, Christianity has always been membership based, so it was always important to know who attended what type of church, what denomination you belong to (baptist, presbytarian, anglican).

They used these types of methods in British India, we too seem to be adopting these kind of methods. Western mindset is very rigid and compartmentalised like a thali. If I use the thali analogy, gora mindset would not mix the daal and dahi, the contradiction would not make sense to them. The Indian mindset does not make this differentiation.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

A lot of people in Punjab and India generally have fluid belief systems. People who claim to be Radha Soami will go to Gurdwaras and listen to path. People in Punjab who go to Gurdwaras have sufi shrines in their villages and give offerings to the the particular Pir of the villages.

If Christianity was left to it's own devices without being politically manipulated by foreign organisations as a method of soul harvesting and therefore colonising, Jesus would be a devta in India, worshipped like a murti amongst the panthen of Siva, Vishnu, Kali, Durga etc etc.

Historically, nobody really on the Subcontinent kept records of how many Sikh, Muslim, Hindu there were. This has been introduced by the British as a way of divide and rule to keep statistics. Also, Christianity has always been membership based, so it was always important to know who attended what type of church, what denomination you belong to (baptist, presbytarian, anglican).

They used these types of methods in British India, we too seem to be adopting these kind of methods. Western mindset is very rigid and compartmentalised like a thali. If I use the thali analogy, gora mindset would not mix the daal and dahi, the contradiction would not make sense to them. The Indian mindset does not make this differentiation.

I understand what you mean, but the Akal Takht has made rules for Khalsa(Amritdharis) to live a more disciplined life than average Indians. Even Guru Nanak would want his Sikhs live a more disciplined life than the average person. Example, when Bhai Lehna,(Guru Angad) first met Guru Nanak he didn't have a Rehat to follow, he couldn't find Vaheguru in Durga Puja, then as soon as he met Guru Nanak he couldn't tell at first who he was talking to because of the lack of Rehat. Then he started living the Sikh Rehat when he understood that Guru Nanak was the truth and today because of his devotion he has been the the second Nanak. Also because of his devotion his family members who happened to live a lost life received Multi,

"ਜਿਨੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗਏ ਮਸਕਤਿ ਘਾਲਿ ॥ जिनी नामु धिआइआ गए मसकति घालि ॥ Jinī nām ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā ga▫e maskaṯ gẖāl. Those who have meditated on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and departed after having worked by the sweat of their brows -

ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਉਜਲੇ ਕੇਤੀ ਛੁਟੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥ नानक ते मुख उजले केती छुटी नालि ॥१॥ Nānak ṯe mukẖ ujle keṯī cẖẖutī nāl. ||1|| O Nanak, their faces are radiant in the Court of the Lord, and many are saved along with them! ||1||" Japji Sahib

[Saimdusan]

I'm a Punjabi Muslim from the diaspora and I'm disturbed and worried by the status of Punjabi in Pakistan. I'm touched by all those Sikhs that have expressed solidarity with us in this thread, and am just as disheartened by those who have repeated the same pro-partition extremist propaganda that just seeks to divide us and weaken us as a qaum. I don't want to speak the Hindustani/Khariboli language (the conflict between "Hindi" and "Urdu" just obfuscates the real language conflict between Hindustani and Punjabi), Punjabis speak Punjabi.

The fact that Punjabis dominate Pakistan has actually helped in the denationalization of Punjabis! The Pakistani establishment found it easier to use an already established lingua franca like Hindustani (that was imposed in Punjab by the British) than experiment with Punjabi. This made Punjabis the first (self-offered, I'll grant you that) sacrifice to the Pakistani state's policy of ethnic homogenization. Keep in mind that we've had more than one military dictatorship that has imposed an Islamist, Arabophile, Sikh/Hinduphobic vision of what it means to be Pakistani, it's kind of hard to go against that current.

The recuperation of Punjabi and Punjabiyat among Muslims is actually important for Sikhs because this is the only way for Punjabi to take its place as the major world language (with over a hundred million speakers) that it is. The first instinct of many Sikhs especially all the bad blood between us may be to cut themselves off completely and say that "it's Pakistan's issue", but if Punjabi was to die out in Pakistan wouldn't that mean that Eastern Punjab would be surrounded by Hindustani-speaking areas? Urdu is also the official language of Kashmir, as is Hindi in Haryana and Himachal Pradesh. The future of Punjabi in Eastern Punjab is then intimitely connected to its future in Western Punjab, and it shares its future with all the other languages subordinated to Hindustani (Sindhi, Kashmiri, Bhojpuri, Awadhi, Haryanvi, Kangri...).

Your history is our future, and your future is our future.

Maa boli, qaumi boli.

Panjabi bolo, panjabi parho, panjabi likho.

[jkvlondon]

JKV Bhenji i don't quite see how accepting those that bow before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as sehajdhari Sikhs hurts our Panth's interests in any way. Given that Amritdhari Sikhs who abstain from alcohol and so on (ie what we can term true Gursikhs) account for no more than arguably 3% of east Punjab's population (if we generously assume that 5% of the Sikh population in East Punjab live according to Rehit) then the inevitable consequence of that is that the political objectives of those that seek justice, equality and Sarbat Da Bhalla (ie the small minority of Gursikhs within the wider overall Panth) will be frustrated forever by the corrupt elements able to manipulate the majority in a democracy. If all those Punjabi's that attend Gurdwara's - arguably 95% of the east Punjab population - all genuinely feel that they are all Sikhs and stakeholders within the Sikh Panth, then there is a future possibility of Sarbat Da Bhalla coming to fruition in east Punjab by governance in accordance with Gurmat values as well as Khalsa Raj across all of present day India if we can increase our numbers and influence accordingly.

The higher the population numbers of general Sikhs there are, the greater the number of true Amritdhari's will arise.

If we are serious about wanting to see 96 million Khalsa in the future then that won't really occur when we look for every possible reason to exclude someone as a fellow Sikh, even going to the extent of looking at some members of Gurdwara Sangat as non-Sikhs. Given that Earth's population will rise to 9.6billion people in the future, even a force of 96 million members of the Khalsa Panth would only be 1% of the global population. Inevitably, even that 1% would need the democratic and civil support of a vastly increased population of the wider Sikh Panth and allies. Amritdhari standards are not in any way diluted by greater numbers of sehajdhari Sikhs from where the Panth's new Amritdhari's can arise. I do agree that when it comes to the Khalsa Panth, quality rather than simply quantity is paramount.

VJKK VJKF

you need to go back and see what kind of rehit a sehajdhari had in Guru ji's time and just how far we let standards slip to allow people to use the label now...what we call 'sehajdhari' is never what our forefathers would have considered as such . We need to stay true to Guru ji's rehit not our ideas of what is doable

[JATTMirpuri]

I read this article and do not agree with the people who say Pakistanis are arab wanabees. This is not true. Also about 90% in the UK speak Punjabi and not urdu and in Pakistan itself they all can speak Punjabi and urdu as well. Religion and race are different issues and one does not stop being a Punjabi if he becomes a sikh or muslim.