Is Sexual Attraction Really That Bad?

[ASKhalsa1 104]

First of all let me express my agreement with all those who are likely to tell me so, that 'Kaam', or lust, is a bad thing.

Where my own thoughts probably diverge from many other brothers and sisters in this matter is in my understanding of what 'Kaam' is.

I consider a lustful person to be one whose thoughts are overwhelmingly predicated on sex, who struggles to control his (or her) desires which then go on to exert a detrimental influence on his (or her, though much more rarely it would seem) well being . A lot of other Sikhs conflate any and all varieties of sexual attraction, irrespective of their magnitude, with lust, and consequently consider it something that is dirty and should be guarded against.

How can something which is necessary for the continuation of the species possibly be sinful? Everyone who is on this forum right now was conceived in a moment of sexual attraction. How could a bloke get an erection without feeling attracted to the woman with whom he is having intercourse?

I do not believe 'lust' equals sexual attraction. I do not believe the attraction between a man and wife is sinful or something they should feel guilty about. I'd be interested to hear the views of the Sangat on this matter, and would welcome the advice of those better versed in Gurbani than I am.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

First of all let me express my agreement with all those who are likely to tell me so, that 'Kaam', or lust, is a bad thing.

Where my own thoughts probably diverge from many other brothers and sisters in this matter is in my understanding of what 'Kaam' is.

I consider a lustful person to be one whose thoughts are overwhelmingly predicated on sex, who struggles to control his (or her) desires which then go on to exert a detrimental influence on his (or her, though much more rarely it would seem) well being . A lot of other Sikhs conflate any and all varieties of sexual attraction, irrespective of their magnitude, with lust, and consequently consider it something that is dirty and should be guarded against.

How can something which is necessary for the continuation of the species possibly be sinful? Everyone who is on this forum right now was conceived in a moment of sexual attraction. How could a bloke get an erection without feeling attracted to the woman with whom he is having intercourse?

I do not believe 'lust' equals sexual attraction. I do not believe the attraction between a man and wife is sinful or something they should feel guilty about. I'd be interested to hear the views of the Sangat on this matter, and would welcome the advice of those better versed in Gurbani than I am.

Lust is a high level of sexual desire which means you would be able to rape or molest someone for your satisfaction. Or commit some bestiality. I'm not well-versed at Gurbani, Guru Sahib knows more about me than I could ever know of him. Normal sex is ok from what my limited knowledge is.

[singh598 471]

In this body resides the 5 evils lust anger greed attachment and pride which rob the amrit and the self willed don't even realize this. (SGGS)

Jagat Guru Satguru Sri Guru Nanak teaches mankind: - Thoughts of sexual desire or any other desire are all creations of maya. And there is no pain like the pain of maya. The purpose of the human life is to achieve self realization, this requires to caste away the animalistic physical dimensions of the human body such as sex, food luxuries and to attain the highest path of spiritual wisdom. Any form of kaam is a barrier to this and hence all of it has to be discarded

[ASKhalsa1 104]

In this body resides the 5 evils lust anger greed attachment and pride which rob the amrit and the self willed don't even realize this. (SGGS)

Jagat Guru Satguru Sri Guru Nanak teaches mankind: - Thoughts of sexual desire or any other desire are all creations of maya. And there is no pain like the pain of maya. The purpose of the human life is to achieve self realization, this requires to caste away the animalistic physical dimensions of the human body such as sex, food luxuries and to attain the highest path of spiritual wisdom. Any form of kaam is a barrier to this and hence all of it has to be discarded

Ok, say humankind managed to achieve this hypothetical milestone of perfection. Every person that existed scraped their souls clean of all traces of sexual desire. The species homo sapiens would cease to be, because no man could get his junk to do its job. What would happen to the Guru Ghars, our Guru Maharaj and the Bani kept therein once the last asexual human nods off forever?

Many of our own Guru Sahibaan had children. Their offspring didn't just materialize from the ether.

[N30S1NGH 3,092]

From absolute truth perspective, its IKoankar One non dual pure jot(knowledge)/awareness being fully nirlaip-de-attached not confined yet fully expereincing itself via its creation, expressing itself in movement - creating, preserving and changing creation, expressing itself without any agenda, sponteounsly effortlessly choicelessly.

Here is sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj says- akaal purkh- sat himself is enjoyer- bhugtaie.

Chattra Chakkra Vartee, Chattra Chakkra Bhugatay, Suyambhav Subhang Sarab Daa Saraab Jugatay.

Dukaalan Pranasee, Diaalang Saroopay, Sadaa Ang Sangay, Abhangang Bibhutaay

You are pervading in all the four directions, the Enjoyer in all the four directions. You are self-illumined, profoundly beautiful, and united with all. Destroyer of the torments of birth and death, embodiment of mercy. You are ever within us. You are the everlasting giver of indestructible power.

But from relative reality since everyone of us are stuck in relative reality-maya- bhogi-enjoyer, bhog- enjoyment is all maya, we are subjected to five vices, karams, reincarnation, hell, heaven etc.

So its matter of pure enlightened realized perception, one needs to get rid of egoic conditioned mindset/ doership let truth-gurbani shallow them alive- merged them in jevan mukht (ekta of nirgun and sargun state) then only through full embodiment of absolute-truth one can engage in relative realities without getting caught up because then one is god realized--bhramgyani which sees everything with pure perception/with realization of absolute truth as gurbani states-

Chattra Chakkra Vartee, Chattra Chakkra Bhugatay, Suyambhav Subhang Sarab Daa Saraab Jugatay.

Dukaalan Pranasee, Diaalang Saroopay, Sadaa Ang Sangay, Abhangang Bibhutaay

You are pervading in all the four directions, the Enjoyer in all the four directions. You are self-illumined, profoundly beautiful, and united with all. Destroyer of the torments of birth and death, embodiment of mercy. You are ever within us. You are the everlasting giver of indestructible power.

[Sikhistan 252]

The purpose of sikhi in my viewpoint is to reach the stage level where we will find Anand of guru shabad. That stage level is so high that it can't be compared with any other Worldly desires. That stage is also the reason how one Sikh can't feel the pain of being sawed in half or burned alive. Naturally, desires should stay between husband and wife and it's fine by my view. But if outside of home, a random girl/lady/boy passing by and a person take a look at her 'check it out' NOW I consider that as the lust and a sin.

[singh598 471]

Your thread is headed sexual attraction but your posts are about procreation

O lust you are the cause of going to hell and wandering in many lives. You destroy all spiritual progress. Your pleasure is so limited yet the pain you create is endless SGGS

[singh598 471]

Your thread is headed sexual attraction but your posts are about procreation

O lust you are the cause of going to hell and wandering in many lives. You destroy all spiritual progress. Your pleasure is so limited yet the pain you create is endless SGGS

[ASKhalsa1 104]

Your thread is headed sexual attraction but your posts are about procreation

O lust you are the cause of going to hell and wandering in many lives. You destroy all spiritual progress. Your pleasure is so limited yet the pain you create is endless SGGS

The two go hand in hand. There can't be any procreation without any sexual attraction, and if procreation is a good thing, as many Sikhs believe, then why should the sexual attraction which allows it be a bad thing, as again many Sikhs believe?

But I still see your point, and come to think of it I have probably misrepresented the question a little bit.

[singhbj singh 1,297]

ਜੋਬਨ ਕੇ ਜਾਲ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕੇ ਕਾਲ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਸਤ੍ਰਨ ਕੇ ਸੂਲ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਮਿਤ੍ਰਨ ਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਹੋ ॥੯॥੧੯॥

Jobana Ke Jaal Ho Ki Kaal Hooan Ke Kaal Ho Ki Satrana Ke Soola Ho Ki Mitarana Ke Paraana Ho ॥9॥19॥

जोबन के जाल हो कि काल हूं के काल हो कि सत्रन के सूल हो कि मित्रन के प्रान हो ॥९॥१९॥

Thou art the snare of youth, the Death of Death, the anguish of enemies and the life of the friends. 9.19.

2 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੩੯ ਪੰ. ੨

Source - http://searchgurbani.com/scriptures/ds_page/39

[singh598 471]

Only sexual attraction during procreation is acceptable as Bhai gurdas clarifies

If you go more deeper into spiritually of Sikhism then the sakhi of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji going to dharm puri ( the righteous land) comes to mind

Here there is only purity and no 5 evils. The rivers flow of milk and metal is replaced with gold

Bhai Mardana asks that in this righteous world if there is no sex then how do the humans procreate?

Satguru answers that all the humans here posess Bhog Dristee amongst other spiritual powers

Mahapursh such as baba nand singh sant attar singh et al all possessed this power

[kharkusingh1996 231]

Only sexual attraction during procreation is acceptable as Bhai gurdas clarifies

If you go more deeper into spiritually of Sikhism then the sakhi of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji going to dharm puri ( the righteous land) comes to mind

Here there is only purity and no 5 evils. The rivers flow of milk and metal is replaced with gold

Bhai Mardana asks that in this righteous world if there is no sex then how do the humans procreate?

Satguru answers that all the humans here posess Bhog Dristee amongst other spiritual powers

Mahapursh such as baba nand singh sant attar singh et al all possessed this power

Bhog dristee explain a little more?

[Sat1176 132]

Kaam is one of those double edged swords. On one side it is stated :

do not ever associate with sexual desire or anger. (SSGS 343)

kaam krodhh sang kabahu n behahu

However Kaam is also one of the 4 treasures (char padarath)

Righteous faith, wealth, sexual , success and salvation (mokh); the Lord bestows these four blessings.
Dharam arath ar kaam mokh mukat padaarath naath.
One who has such pre-ordained destiny upon his forehead, O Nanak, has all his desires fulfilled.
sagal manorath poori-aa naanak likhi-aa maath. (SGGS 927)

In the Sadh Sangat, the company of the Holy, I worship and adore the Lord, the infinite treasure. He does not hesitate to bless me with Dharmic faith, wealth, sexual success and liberation.

sadhsang aradhna har nidh apar. dharam arth ar kaam mokh dete nahi baar.

[singh598 471]

Kaam is one of those double edged swords. On one side it is stated :

do not ever associate with sexual desire or anger. (SSGS 343)

kaam krodhh sang kabahu n behahu

However Kaam is also one of the 4 treasures (char padarath)

Righteous faith, wealth, sexual , success and salvation (mokh); the Lord bestows these four blessings.

Dharam arath ar kaam mokh mukat padaarath naath.

One who has such pre-ordained destiny upon his forehead, O Nanak, has all his desires fulfilled.

sagal manorath poori-aa naanak likhi-aa maath. (SGGS 927)

In the Sadh Sangat, the company of the Holy, I worship and adore the Lord, the infinite treasure. He does not hesitate to bless me with Dharmic faith, wealth, sexual success and liberation.

sadhsang aradhna har nidh apar. dharam arth ar kaam mokh dete nahi baar.

here kaam refers to desires of living life in a way that your not poor or helpless rather your desires for a good looking woman, heakthy body, nice house , nice car nice relatives may my kids get degrees etc etc basically means raj and jog

[thugger 97]

You've probably read this before, but IIRC, Guru Gobind Singh once wrote something along the lines of "my father (guru teg bahadur) told me " love your wife as much as you want, but do not enter another woman's bed, even in your dreams""

So I suppose sexual attraction is OK between married people, but as someone mentioned above, if you're just checking out random people on the street, that's considered sinful.

Sorry about any typing errors, on mobile ATM.

Edit: will try to link to above quote when I'm on my computer