Diary Of Sikh Woman: Why I Cannot Get Married

[Quantavius 141]

Show me where is it written that Sikhs should carry a Kirpaan. Show me where it specifies what size/material/colour it should be.

Show me where it is written that a Sikh should keep a kachera. Show me what colour and length and material and design it should be.

Show me were exactly. ....

Do you know understand the ridiculousness of your point, or do you require further explanation?

If I'm not mistaken they are mentioned in Sakhias.

Do you also believe a woman donning a full beard and turban like a man is ridiculous? Be brutally honest, would you marry a woman with a beard?

[Koi 551]

If I'm not mistaken they are mentioned in Sakhias.

Do you also believe a woman donning a full beard and turban like a man is ridiculous? Be brutally honest, would you marry a woman with a beard?

Before I address the question, do you think that this is a free pass not to obey the Guru's hukam i.e cut your hair.

As far as your question goes, I know and have met bibia who have facial hair, who i have enormous respect for (and by the way, some of the ARE married ). As such, I find your question offensive, and will not dignify it with a response.

Just to add, I'd the colour of the kachera and kirpan also mentioned in the sakhiaa? If so, which ones? Please provide complete quotes.

[Quantavius 141]

Before I address the question, do you think that this is a free pass not to obey the Guru's hukam i.e cut your hair.

As far as your question goes, I know and have met bibia who have facial hair, who i have enormous respect for (and by the way, some of the ARE married ). As such, I find your question offensive, and will not dignify it with a response.

Just to add, I'd the colour of the kachera and kirpan also mentioned in the sakhiaa? If so, which ones? Please provide complete quotes.

I also find your post extremely 'offensive' thus will not dignify with a response as well. :stupidme:

[Barfi n Mithai 45]

@Barfi

Would you marry this woman?

http://vitaminw.co/culture-society/sikh-woman-grows-beard-and-gets-touch-her-feminity

She has a disease called PCOS that has caused that to happen to her so please stop making out that every woman who keeps hair on their face will look like that. There is a spectrum of hair length, quality and type in the human species. Its a gaussian distribution curve. Just like men grow different beard sizes and shapes. Not only that some of my oriental friends do not grow beards, some of my Tibetan girl friends don't grow arm hair. The gene pool is varied and we cannot be rude to people because they are on the edge of that. But its not even about some people having more and some people having less - at the moment there is a hair phobia culture where we expect every tiny bit of hair to be removed off a female face.

It has gorton to the extent that any hair on a face automatically means that person is ugly. For instance this girl is beautiful and instead of seeing that all you can see is her hair - have you looked at her and seen her facial features and her eyes? Now thats what I call beauty without the need for plastic surgery. Do you know how many girls would want to have what she has naturally? I would 120% marry her. If she ever has babies they are going to be very pretty. I have vast amounts of respect for her because there are girls out there with 'normal' female facial hair who remove it and here we have someone who has a disease and decided to keep it.

This negativity to variance is no on. We can apply it to other things e.g. height - midget/dwarf. Should we automatically expect all dwarfs to have leg lengthening operations. Would you want to do this. I think its wrong that we are constantly trying to make everyone 'fit' an average when actually the way you are is best for you. All humans are better off being who they are in their natural state.

The point however that I am making is not about people with different distributions with some having more and others having less. What I am saying is that we live in a society where normal amount of female hair e.g. upper lip is considered abnormal. I fundamentally believe we have a hair phobia culture.

@Barfi

I believe the requirement for keeping a turban, beard...etc, etc is for creating a Sikh identity and eradication of inequality

Kesh ie hair is part of the 5 kakkars. The 5 kakkars are considered to be an 'ang' or limb of your body and must never be removed. Therefore kesh should not be removed because it is who you are naturally as a human being. Let me ask you this - would you remove the hair off your eyelashes. Would you physically sit there and pull out every single eyelash hair because everyone in society is doing it and they are looking at you as if you are abnormal for having long eyelash hair. Of course some people (indians) have longer eye lash hair compared to others (caucasians). But would you remove your eyebrow hair. imagine every time you did it - it hurt, you cried, you got redness, you got blisters and the pain was immense. Not only that - the next month it grew back again. Females across the world who have normal amounts of female facial hair spend money and time on doing exactly this when they remove their facial and bodily hair.

The Kesh is not for creating an identity because then we could wear turbans with our hair cut short. Also hair came first. Our hair is what gives us our identity not our turbans. We sikhs are humans that keep themselves as they are born and are proud of it. Also sikh woman keep their hair uncut under a chunni so it cannot be identity. In conclusion the hair is what gives us our identity - not the other way around.

The eradication of inequality has nothing to do with hair keeping. Inequality is to do with lack of opportunities. The reason sikhs keep their hair is because the 5 kakkars are you and you do not remove them. And woman need to keep facial hair - you wouldn't pluck out the hair on your eyelashes so why are you doing this to your face?

I am busy and cannot reply anymore so please ask the sangat the rest of your questions. Thanks.

[Quantavius 141]

She has a disease called PCOS that has caused that to happen to her so please stop making out that every woman who keeps hair on their face will look like that. There is a spectrum of hair length, quality and type in the human species. Its a gaussian distribution curve. Just like men grow different beard sizes and shapes. Not only that some of my oriental friends do not grow beards, some of my Tibetan girl friends don't grow arm hair. The gene pool is varied and we cannot be rude to people because they are on the edge of that. But its not even about some people having more and some people having less - at the moment there is a hair phobia culture where we expect every tiny bit of hair to be removed off a female face.

It has gorton to the extent that any hair on a face automatically means that person is ugly. For instance this girl is beautiful and instead of seeing that all you can see is her hair - have you looked at her and seen her facial features and her eyes? Now thats what I call beauty without the need for plastic surgery. Do you know how many girls would want to have what she has naturally? I would 120% marry her. If she ever has babies they are going to be very pretty. I have vast amounts of respect for her because there are girls out there with 'normal' female facial hair who remove it and here we have someone who has a disease and decided to keep it.

This negativity to variance is no on. We can apply it to other things e.g. height - midget/dwarf. Should we automatically expect all dwarfs to have leg lengthening operations. Would you want to do this. I think its wrong that we are constantly trying to make everyone 'fit' an average when actually the way you are is best for you. All humans are better off being who they are in their natural state.

The point however that I am making is not about people with different distributions with some having more and others having less. What I am saying is that we live in a society where normal amount of female hair e.g. upper lip is considered abnormal. I fundamentally believe we have a hair phobia culture.

Kesh ie hair is part of the 5 kakkars. The 5 kakkars are considered to be an 'ang' or limb of your body and must never be removed. Therefore kesh should not be removed because it is who you are naturally as a human being. Let me ask you this - would you remove the hair off your eyelashes. Would you physically sit there and pull out every single eyelash hair because everyone in society is doing it and they are looking at you as if you are abnormal for having long eyelash hair. Of course some people (indians) have longer eye lash hair compared to others (caucasians). But would you remove your eyebrow hair. imagine every time you did it - it hurt, you cried, you got redness, you got blisters and the pain was immense. Not only that - the next month it grew back again. Females across the world who have normal amounts of female facial hair spend money and time on doing exactly this when they remove their facial and bodily hair.

The Kesh is not for creating an identity because then we could wear turbans with our hair cut short. Also hair came first. Our hair is what gives us our identity not our turbans. We sikhs are humans that keep themselves as they are born and are proud of it. Also sikh woman keep their hair uncut under a chunni so it cannot be identity. In conclusion the hair is what gives us our identity - not the other way around.

The eradication of inequality has nothing to do with hair keeping. Inequality is to do with lack of opportunities. The reason sikhs keep their hair is because the 5 kakkars are you and you do not remove them. And woman need to keep facial hair - you wouldn't pluck out the hair on your eyelashes so why are you doing this to your face?

I am busy and cannot reply anymore so please ask the sangat the rest of your questions. Thanks.

Just answer the question, would you marry her? Be truthful and stop deflecting. We all know the answer already.

Let's play your game. Why are you cutting your nails then? Let it grow out then. Why take a shower or clean yourself after taking a dump? It's all part of our body right? See how easy that was?

In my opinion kesh IS for identity. This prevented many practicing Hindus to swallow Sikhism and make it a sect of Hinduism. By creating the requirement for keeping long hair and turban, it effectively prevented 'fence sitters' to dictate and claim Sikhism is a sect of Hinduism. It once and for all forces you to choose. There is no grey area. Nobody back then had long hair with turban. Turban maybe but thats it.

The truth is you can argue pretty much anything if you want to argue. But the truth is based on facts and not opinion We all have an opinion on everything. You believe any facial hair removal is bad and others think differently and it's their perogative. Thats fine and dandy however that is your opinion, nothing more. Blindly believing in something based on someones personal opinion is basically creating a set of dogmas.

No need to reply. Thanks.

[baDS8 1]

You will get someone who thinks on your line.I do not believe true Sikhs have disappeared.

[Koi 551]

It is the Guru's hukam that all Kesh must be kept.

If you do not wish to do so, or do not agree, please feel free to join another panth, or start your own. Because I assure you, the Guru's Sikhi is not for you.

[Guest Gupt]

Let's play your game. Why are you cutting your nails then? Let it grow out then. Why take a shower or clean yourself after taking a dump? It's all part of our body right? See how easy that was?

The Guru did not make nails part of the 5 kakkars therefore you are allowed to cut your nails. This is because nails are considered unclean but hair is not considered unclean. Please stop twisting things to make it out like this is absurd and is acleanliness issues. Keeping hair has nothing to do with lack of hygiene such as not washing or not cutting nails. There is a balance please try to appreciate that and think deeper.

If the Guru want us to keep nails then they would be part of the 5 kakkars but for this very reason our NAILS are NOT part of the 5 kakkars. Keeping hair does not make you unclean. Also keeping hair is not my personal opinion - it is a part of the rehat maryada and the amrit ceremony wordlwide. However what you are saying is your opinion and based on how you feel about female facial hair and it is not in line with the SIkh teachings. Other people don't think like you and have no issues as they are accepting of the 5 kakkars.

[MisterrSingh 5,057]

Putting aside the rehat debate for a moment and returning to the OP. I think it has been proven, albeit anecdotally, that there are Singhs who have no issue with marrying a Singhni who has facial hair. So, the OP's argument that Singhs are hypocrites and can be conditioned to behave like dogs is wide of the mark.

Perhaps OP should work on cultivating a pleasant and agreeable side? Someone who is on the defensive and ready to be offended just isn't fun to be around. You won't make friends amongst your potential in-laws if you hold people with so much disdain!

You never know, with a bit of introspection and an eventual change of attitude the OP might attract a Singh who'll breach that icy cold exterior of hers.

[Quantavius 141]

Putting aside the rehat debate for a moment and returning to the OP. I think it has been proven, albeit anecdotally, that there are Singhs who have no issue with marrying a Singhni who has facial hair. So, the OP's argument that Singhs are hypocrites and can be conditioned to behave like dogs is wide of the mark.

Perhaps OP should work on cultivating a pleasant and agreeable side? Someone who is on the defensive and ready to be offended just isn't fun to be around. You won't make friends amongst your potential in-laws if you hold people with so much disdain!

You never know, with a bit of introspection and an eventual change of attitude the OP might attract a Singh who'll breach that icy cold exterior of hers.

Curious, would you marry a woman with a beard? Or an almost visible mustache?

The OP sounds like someone who had been brought up with a very strict code of conduct and those who preached would practice. But she's learning the hard way that many 'talk the talk but don't walk the walk'.

[MisterrSingh 5,057]

Curious, would you marry a woman with a beard? Or an almost visible mustache?

The OP sounds like someone who had been brought up with a very strict code of conduct and those who preached would practice. But she's learning the hard way that many 'talk the talk but don't walk the walk'.

Depends. If she ticked the other boxes of what I require in a life partner I really would do so. I wouldn't marry a bibi with facial hair to make a point or laud it over other Singhs as if to say, "Tut, Tut, you aren't true Sikhs, because you can't see past this woman's facial hair," or anything like that. But, as I said, she'd have to be what I want in terms of a wife aside from the facial hair.

[Quantavius 141]

Depends. If she ticked the other boxes of what I require in a life partner I really would do so. I wouldn't marry a bibi with facial hair to make a point or laud it over other Singhs as if to say, "Tut, Tut, you aren't true Sikhs, because you can't see past this woman's facial hair," or anything like that. But, as I said, she'd have to be what I want in terms of a wife aside from the facial hair.

In short, you won't. Lets stop kidding ourselves. Those other check boxes are just excuses to decline an alliance.

[MisterrSingh 5,057]

In short, you won't. Lets stop kidding ourselves. Those other check boxes are just excuses to decline an alliance.

How come? Is there anything wrong with desiring a wife who is more than just her facial hair? That's very harsh.

[Akalifauj 900]

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[skaur8888 74]

sometimes feel women in sikhi are either invisible or there is pressure to take on a male identity, men and women are different there's nothing wrong in looking different, why must there be pressure to look the same. Like someone else mentioned I've never seen a picture showing women having facial hair in the Guru's times. Does anyone know of any accounts/evidence that women did keep facial/body hair in their times. Its ok for men to say keep your facial hair, for men it can be seen as a sign of masculinity. We need to value women and there qualities and not pressurising them to keep hair on the face so they look male. There's a lot of focus on male identity in sikhi - battles, weapons, warriors, but we also need to celebrate the softer female side too. Most men do not want a wife with facial hair - that is the truth, why should the poster not have the chance to get married and have a family. Women have a limited time to have children and who knows how long it will take to find a man who doesn't mind a wife with facial hair.