Was Muhammad A Good Logician?

[JSinghnz]

Not long ago another of your kind was asking similar questions about quran here. Absolute logical question like yours. The post was locked and removed so that jokers like you donot waste readers time here on useless discussions.

[13Mirch]

Not long ago another of your kind was asking similar questions about quran here. Absolute logical question like yours. The post was locked and removed so that jokers like you donot waste readers time here on useless discussions.

I see, and let me guess you made an entire animated series on that "cartoon" as well?

[Balkaar]

Out of interest was Muhammad a good logician? He established his own criterion (apparently from Allah) via which he commanded Muslims to recognize his so called divinity and integrity, but where is the subjectivity in that? What non-Islamic principles can prove his authenticity? Put simply, other then Muhammad's word what else is there to say Islam truly is the veracious path to God? Isn't it a defeatist mentality when da'wah givers penultimately proclaim that for not accepting Islam you will burn in hell?

Veerji the Quran bears all the signs of having been conceived by a bumbling fraudster, not a good logician:

- Generally speaking, the Surahs can be divided into two categories. The Makkiyah, those recieved in Makkah when Muhammad was a nonentity and compelled therefore to preach peace in order to avoid trouble, and the later Madinniyah, those received when Muhammad had become an autocratic warlord and was at perfect leisure to preach violence. The sanguinary revelations of Madinah often contradict their earlier counterparts. To explain this mismanagement on his own part, Muhammad conceived the doctrine of Naskh. If a new revelation was issued which was at odds with an earlier one, then the elder one was held to be invalid:

"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? (Surah 2:106)

So according to Islam, God changes his mind. Often. This is nonsense. God is omniscient, the resolutions he provides on anything can only ever be the best ones.

- It perpetuates the same sort of grovelling masochism that was so very useful to Christian missions. "You are born sinful, you are made of filth/ a clot of blood, if you do not throw yourself on our mercy you are bound for hellfire". This blackmail really worked a trick considering how gullible most people are.

- He plagiarised all the commandments and covenants which Jehovah had first issued to the Jewish people, and made them pertain to Muslims instead.

This doesn't sound like the handiwork of a skillful logician to me, only a banal conman resorting to the easy and timeworn methods of blackmail and theft to win converts.

I will try simplifying the matter. Rationally speaking, 1+1=2. However if I was to say 1+1=3 then by implication 2+2 must equal 6 because rather than adding the two present numbers, we add an additional 2. Subjectivity would be 1+1=2, non subjectivity would be if I however promulgated 1+1=3; additionally to veil my own imbecility I can then say a second, or third, divine party informed me I am dead right. To extrapolate further I can ardently deny all subjectivity and construct "facts" to fit my theory that 1+1 in all situations must equal 3! Now of course this will lead to various different theories, and formulas, as to why 1+1=3 and not 2. To further spice up the mix I can state that only one possible formula is right; the rest wrong and individuals who cite 1+1 to be 2 deserving of death as both are formulas are mutually exclusive and opposing.

The abject servility demanded by Islam reminds me of the totalitarianism of Big Brother from Orwell's 1984:

"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted, all else follows."

"Doublethink is the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them"

[Pakandi baba]

Out of interest was Muhammad a good logician? He established his own criterion (apparently from Allah) via which he commanded Muslims to recognize his so called divinity and integrity, but where is the subjectivity in that? What non-Islamic principles can prove his authenticity? Put simply, other then Muhammad's word what else is there to say Islam truly is the veracious path to God? Isn't it a defeatist mentality when da'wah givers penultimately proclaim that for not accepting Islam you will burn in hell?

Here's another one...

Why spend your time [and others who do it] on what's right or not right about Islam or other Religions? perfect your own path in Religion, I assume it's Sikh.

Over and over again I see such anti Islamic threads made by Sheikh, Balkaar and here you, makes me think what your perception of Bhai Mardana, Sheick Farid Ji, Kabir Ji, Sian Mian Mir and the list goes on about numerous Muslims in the Sikh SGGS and historically.

Here the above mentioned are writing derogatory things about Prophets of other Relgions and you fail to accept that in Sikhi and by the Guru Sahibs the faith of Islam and Muhamed [now I'll be referred to as a muslim lover etc, but that matters not as I see the way of my Guru Sahibs and teachings, and may no attention to those whom are nowhere near Sikhi] - You heard of Guru Ki Maseet? Mosque of the Guru?

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_ki_maseet

Why was it erected if Islam is such a monstrous religion revealed by such a monstrous man who you deem as, well you post is self explanatory.

Fateh

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Another question is that without using the Koran and Islamic principles, can Muhammad be proven as an intelligent logician? Gabriel, I believe, was a convenient adoption from the Jews. If you look at Muhammad's initial career even many of his own kinsmen didn't believe him, thus he decided to vow the Jews. Maybe politics were as work as well as some form of tension may have existed between both communities and he attempted to exploit it. In a superstitious era, to have proclaimed I met Gabriel might have earned one some accolades. Of course, after a while, the Jews caught on to the trick and that is why today the people of the book face strong persecution from Islamists.

Well, during the start of Islam, the Quraysh clan was very interested in profiting through millions of pilgrims worshiping many different idols. What Muhammad did was preach a form of monotheism which made his clansmen angry. Also saying that Gabriel was a Jewish invention would assume that Judaism intentionally thought of him, rather that was just something Abraham had a mental condition to create.

[SheikhYoBooty]

Paki'ndi Babar

You clearly cannot be Sikh as you are ignorant of the facts that:

1. Bhai Mardana Ji was the first Sikh in history. The Muslims in Pakistan openly call Bhai Mardana Ji a kanjar.

Bhai Mardana Ji rejected Islam and Muslims tried to kill Bhai Mardana Ji for being an apostate

2. Baba Farid Ji was a Sufi. A Sufi non-Muslim. Baba Farid believed in one God but rejected Prophet Muhammad as a role model due to Prophet Muhammad's slave trading, pedophilia, terrorism, genocides and rapes he perpetrated (see the Holy Quran for details). In Pakistan they call Baba Farid Ji a kuffar kanjar for rejecting Prophet Muhammad.

3. Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj is the biggest most vocal critic of Islam in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

The Muslims tried to kill Kabir Ji for that. Kabir Ji totally rejected Islam as utter falsehood.

4. Sain Mian Mir was a Sufi Sikh. Muslims bow to the black pagan stone in Mecca.

Sain Mian Mir bowed down before Guru Sahib.

5. Guru ki Maseet was a multi-faith Gurdwara where Hindu's and Muslims were welcome to offer their prayers too during floods (which I respect too ... no problem with innocent people of any religion ... but i defo have a problem with pedophile slave traders like Prophet Muhammad that kill innocent people in the name of their Arabic cultural empire of greed aka Islam). So just because the multi-faith Gurdwara has a Qiblah in it (direction of Mecca stone indicator) the Nihangs removed Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and sold out our Gurdwara to Muhammad Izhar Alam's Waqf Board. The same man Muhammad Izhar Alam whose Black Cats (mainly from Malerkotla Muslims) killed tens of thousands of innocent Sikhs buys out the Nihangs for some cannabis and sets it up as a new Mosque.

People like you Paki'ndi Babar would just love it if all our Gurdwara's were turned into Mosques.

Forget that the Arabs spend billions on new Mosques throughout the world each year, forget about disabled kids, forget about blind people, Sikhs on drugs or Sikhs needing operations being forced to convert to Christianity ...

Why not get a whole bunch of Sikhs re-building an old Gurdwara into a brand new Mosque for Muslims. Great idea!

Paki'ndi Babar you don't even have the honesty to condemn the evil words of the Quran below. Why?

Because you're an apologist for Islam. Funny because 1.6billion Muslims openly admit Muhammad was 54 when had sex with child Aisha for the first time when she was 9 years old (after marrying her when she was 6 years old initially).

The Qur'an:

Allah managed to hand down quite a few "revelations" that sanctioned Muhammad's personal pursuit of sex to the doubters around him. Interestingly they have become part of the the eternal, infallible word of the Qur'an, to be memorized by generations of Muslims for whom they have no possible relevance.

Qur'an (33:37) - "But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed."

No doubt millions of young Muslims, trying to outdo one another at memorizing the Qur'an, have wondered about what this verse means and why it is there. In fact, this is a "revelation" of convenience that Allah just happened to hand down at a time when Muhammad lusted after his daughter-in-law, Zaynab, - a state of affairs that disturbed local customs. The verse "commands" Muhammad to marry the woman (following her husband's gracious divorce). As for why this should be part of the eternal word of God...?

Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those slavegirls whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her - specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those slaves whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; "

This is another special command that Muhammad handed down to himself that allows virtually unlimited sex, divinely sanctioned by Allah. One assumes that this "revelation" was meant to assuage some sort of disgruntlement in the community over Muhammad's depraved sexual hedonism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTeAB4l0KCM

Qur'an (33:51) - "You may put off whom you please of them, and you may take to you whom you please, and whom you desire of those whom you had separated provisionally; no blame attaches to you; this is most proper, so that their eyes may be cool and they may not grieve, and that they should be pleased" This is in reference to a situation in which Muhammad's wives were grumbling about his preference for sleeping with a slave girl (Mary the Copt) instead of them. Accordingly, Muhammad may sleep with whichever wife (or slave) he wishes without having to hear the others complain... as revealed in Allah's literal and perfect words to more than a billion Muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbD2BZZsMbY

Qur'an (66:1-5) - "O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allah has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives?... Allah has already ordained for you, the dissolution of your oaths " Another remarkably personal passage of sexual convenience in a book billed as Allah's perfect and eternal message to mankind. Muhammad was caught sleeping with a slave woman on the night that he was supposed to be with one of his wives. Initially promising to be faithful, "Allah" tells his prophet to break that promise and enjoy sex with his slaves. If his wives objected then "it may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you."

[StarStriker]

Here's another one...

Why spend your time [and others who do it] on what's right or not right about Islam or other Religions? perfect your own path in Religion, I assume it's Sikh.

Over and over again I see such anti Islamic threads made by Sheikh, Balkaar and here you, makes me think what your perception of Bhai Mardana, Sheick Farid Ji, Kabir Ji, Sian Mian Mir and the list goes on about numerous Muslims in the Sikh SGGS and historically.

Here the above mentioned are writing derogatory things about Prophets of other Relgions and you fail to accept that in Sikhi and by the Guru Sahibs the faith of Islam and Muhamed [now I'll be referred to as a muslim lover etc, but that matters not as I see the way of my Guru Sahibs and teachings, and may no attention to those whom are nowhere near Sikhi] - You heard of Guru Ki Maseet? Mosque of the Guru?

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_ki_maseet

Why was it erected if Islam is such a monstrous religion revealed by such a monstrous man who you deem as, well you post is self explanatory.

Fateh

Because the muslims wanted a mosque built, so guru ji built it, simple! Doesnt mean guru ji agrees with their religion, they have every right to worship god, if they have a space where it means they can worship god then thats all that matters. Is it that hard understand? I sweardown this forums posters r gettin thicker by the day, opening the same ol topics, askin/stating the same ol stuff, even tho theyve been given answers/rebuttals in previous similar threads. Its been mentioned many times now, that bhagats farid/kabir rejected islam, and other sufis in sikh history rejected islam, but instead did meditation on gods name, ppl still dont get it. Dasam granth lines have been quotes here statin wat the lord thinks of prophets/gurus of other religions, who came prior to our gurus, yet somehow it isnt clearcut for some reason. So ill copy/paste my comments frm anotha thread about same subject.

------------

Baba farid was a k@njar.....According to muslims at that time, after n present. He sang songs about god, with music, which is considered work of the kuffar (non-believers). He, like kabir, both born in muslim households, yet rejected practically everything muslims r supposed to believe. Rejection of 7 heavens/hells, god bein in 1 direction (mecca), hajj, fasting, halal slaughter, circumcision etc.

Baba farid, wasnt even allowed into mosques, and denied a muslim burial too. He was about as muslim as benito mussolini.

Baba bulleh shah, anotha man, who used music/dance/singin to praise god, was also called a k@njar, and considered a kuffar.

Nusrat fateh ali khan - 'Je tu rabb nu manona'

"nach nach ke, yaar manaalaiy ye, paave lok, aakun pehri ka@njari eh"...convince ur lover via dance, even if ppl call u a worthless prostitute.

"nach nach ke yaar manalaiya, paave k@njari bann na peh jaaveh"...convince ur lover, even if u have to become a prostitute.

"Paave k@njari, je bulleh vangu, ghunghru tu paah"...even if like bulleh shah, u have to wear ankle bracelets, like a prostitute.

Theres a reason y sikhs n sufis have, n had a great relationship, as we both agree on singin gods name, with music. So much so, that, pre-partition it was marasi/sufis that did kirtan in our gurdwaras, without any hesitancy.

[Pakandi baba]

Paki'ndi Babar

You clearly cannot be Sikh as you are ignorant of the facts that:

1. Bhai Mardana Ji was the first Sikh in history. The Muslims in Pakistan openly call Bhai Mardana Ji a kanjar.

Bhai Mardana Ji rejected Islam and Muslims tried to kill Bhai Mardana Ji for being an apostate

2. Baba Farid Ji was a Sufi. A Sufi non-Muslim. Baba Farid believed in one God but rejected Prophet Muhammad as a role model due to Prophet Muhammad's slave trading, pedophilia, terrorism, genocides and rapes he perpetrated (see the Holy Quran for details). In Pakistan they call Baba Farid Ji a kuffar kanjar for rejecting Prophet Muhammad.

3. Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj is the biggest most vocal critic of Islam in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

The Muslims tried to kill Kabir Ji for that. Kabir Ji totally rejected Islam as utter falsehood.

4. Sain Mian Mir was a Sufi Sikh. Muslims bow to the black pagan stone in Mecca.

Sain Mian Mir bowed down before Guru Sahib.

5. Guru ki Maseet was a multi-faith Gurdwara where Hindu's and Muslims were welcome to offer their prayers too during floods (which I respect too ... no problem with innocent people of any religion ... but i defo have a problem with pedophile slave traders like Prophet Muhammad that kill innocent people in the name of their Arabic cultural empire of greed aka Islam). So just because the multi-faith Gurdwara has a Qiblah in it (direction of Mecca stone indicator) the Nihangs removed Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and sold out our Gurdwara to Muhammad Izhar Alam's Waqf Board. The same man Muhammad Izhar Alam whose Black Cats (mainly from Malerkotla Muslims) killed tens of thousands of innocent Sikhs buys out the Nihangs for some cannabis and sets it up as a new Mosque.

People like you Paki'ndi Babar would just love it if all our Gurdwara's were turned into Mosques.

Forget that the Arabs spend billions on new Mosques throughout the world each year, forget about disabled kids, forget about blind people, Sikhs on drugs or Sikhs needing operations being forced to convert to Christianity ...

Why not get a whole bunch of Sikhs re-building an old Gurdwara into a brand new Mosque for Muslims. Great idea!

Paki'ndi Babar you don't even have the honesty to condemn the evil words of the Quran below. Why?

Because you're an apologist for Islam. Funny because 1.6billion Muslims openly admit Muhammad was 54 when had sex with child Aisha for the first time when she was 9 years old (after marrying her when she was 6 years old initially).

The Qur'an:

Allah managed to hand down quite a few "revelations" that sanctioned Muhammad's personal pursuit of sex to the doubters around him. Interestingly they have become part of the the eternal, infallible word of the Qur'an, to be memorized by generations of Muslims for whom they have no possible relevance.

Qur'an (33:37) - "But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed."

No doubt millions of young Muslims, trying to outdo one another at memorizing the Qur'an, have wondered about what this verse means and why it is there. In fact, this is a "revelation" of convenience that Allah just happened to hand down at a time when Muhammad lusted after his daughter-in-law, Zaynab, - a state of affairs that disturbed local customs. The verse "commands" Muhammad to marry the woman (following her husband's gracious divorce). As for why this should be part of the eternal word of God...?

Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those slavegirls whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her - specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those slaves whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; "

This is another special command that Muhammad handed down to himself that allows virtually unlimited sex, divinely sanctioned by Allah. One assumes that this "revelation" was meant to assuage some sort of disgruntlement in the community over Muhammad's depraved sexual hedonism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTeAB4l0KCM

Qur'an (33:51) - "You may put off whom you please of them, and you may take to you whom you please, and whom you desire of those whom you had separated provisionally; no blame attaches to you; this is most proper, so that their eyes may be cool and they may not grieve, and that they should be pleased" This is in reference to a situation in which Muhammad's wives were grumbling about his preference for sleeping with a slave girl (Mary the Copt) instead of them. Accordingly, Muhammad may sleep with whichever wife (or slave) he wishes without having to hear the others complain... as revealed in Allah's literal and perfect words to more than a billion Muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbD2BZZsMbY

Qur'an (66:1-5) - "O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allah has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives?... Allah has already ordained for you, the dissolution of your oaths " Another remarkably personal passage of sexual convenience in a book billed as Allah's perfect and eternal message to mankind. Muhammad was caught sleeping with a slave woman on the night that he was supposed to be with one of his wives. Initially promising to be faithful, "Allah" tells his prophet to break that promise and enjoy sex with his slaves. If his wives objected then "it may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you."

Sain de darbar vich dekan ge jado tenu putta kar ke kuttia!

[SheikhYoBooty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c79AXU8bOSQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OxszPhDNOw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB5WbyqkdMU

[Kira]

SheikhYoBooty bro, just putting it out there. The first Sikh in history was Bibi Nanaki I believe as she recognized Guru Nanak's divinity even at the moment of his birth.