Lost Heritage - The Sikh Legacy In Pakistan

[Bhau]

Mate 35k, is a low n incorrect number of sikhs who were killed by indian state. Frm 1977-95, 250k sikhs were murdered. Remember jaswant singh khalra found 20k+ in just tarn taran/amritsar area, think of all of panjab/haryana/jammu added together.

Regarding khatris tho, it is sad, that they suffered alot of violence in w.panjab n relocated to delhi/UP, n 30yrs later, the very same ppl suffered brutal pre-planned violence afta witch indira's death.

Brother the figure of 250k is too far fetched to be true. Jaswant singh khalra found records of about 8-10000 bodies being illegally cremated by police in amritsar-tarn taran area during height of militancy. But the main point to take into consideration is that more than 50% of total casualties took place in the majha area. So we cant argue that other areas were affected the same as amritsar-tarn taran-gurdaspur division. Historians and investigators from all spectrums put the death toll between 30 to 50 thousand casualties.

[chatanga]

Mate 35k, is a low n incorrect number of sikhs who were killed by indian state. Frm 1977-95, 250k sikhs were murdered. Remember jaswant singh khalra found 20k+ in just tarn taran/amritsar area, think of all of panjab/haryana/jammu added together.

Shaheed Jaswant Singh Khalra found evidence of 6014 bodies that were cremated as unidentified in these areas between 1992 and 1995. I'm not sure about the 250k but would appreciate any supporting evidence. After 20 years we should have some more clarity and better evidence on how Sikhs were killed during this period.

This figure of 250k Sikhs killed was bandied around in the early 90s. with little evidence.

[chatanga]

Thats the reason the perception of a sikh in india is that of a khatri/bhapa sikh. Most people dont even know the there is a separate entity called jatt sikhs with their own nature, customs, characteristics etc because the only sikhs they have come across are urban khatri sikhs. No wonder sikhs have been made an object of ridicule by some.
I recently had a debate with a bhapa acquaintance and when i presented him with facts about how jatt sikhs were instrumental in creation of sikhism and khalsa and hugely disproportionate sacrifices made by them to preserve the religion, he, like others, played the 'equality' card saying how our gurus preached that there are no castes etc and everyone is equal. But facts are facts. And when i asked him that how come after 3000 sikhs were butchered in delhi, no bhapa from delhi joined the struggle and picked an AK47, he drew a blank. Meanwhile we lost 35000 young men between 1984-1993, 90% of them jatt sikhs in an effort to pick up and put the turban back on the head of the kaum.
Sorry if i offended anyone since i am majhail and we are known to be a tad bit emotional and impulsive.

Jatts weren't instrumental in the creation of SIkhi bro, they like all castes played a part in it's development in the early stages.

Your point about how many bhapas from delhi took up guns is an excellent point. This highlights how different the mentality is between the urban "bhape" and village "Jatts". It was Sukha and JIndas' gang that initially took revenge for what happened in Delhi. There were some jatts who suffered in delhi who did take up arms like Karaj Singh Thande. But I have yet to hear of a bhapa taking up arms.

[JagsawSingh]

But I have yet to hear of a bhapa taking up arms.

The greatest of the greatest during our struggles in the 80's was a 'khatri' ; Surinder Singh Sodhi.

[chatanga]

I stand corrected. Tell us more about Sodhi.

[Bhau]

The greatest of the greatest during our struggles in the 80's was a 'khatri' ; Surinder Singh Sodhi.

Everyone knows about this hero brother. But nothing is absolute and there are always a few exceptions. And in this case these exceptions are akin to a drop in the ocean. There were many hindu and muslim militants supporting the cause for that matter.

[Jonny101]

Right jonny101. Even i have a bhua and some relatives over there. They battled jungle, marshes and malaria to make the land useable. They practically created their own little Majha with huge tracts of lands and their 'Behaks'. Many families suffered a lot during militancy. Another hotbead of militancy was in haryana in districts of jind, karnal etc which too were settled by jatt sikhs from lahore, sialkot etc.

Most of the Virks from west Punjab almost all settled in Karnal. Haryana's history with Sikhs is not new. Baba Banda Singh Bahadur ruled over large parts of Haryana. Even during misal periad, various Sikh groups ruled over large parts of Haryana. Phulkian Sardars like Jind and even misldars like Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgaria stayed in Haryana for a while. There was a sort of contest between Sikhs and Marathas over dominance of Haryana. Then briefly there was an Irish adventurer by the name of George Thomas who tried to become king of this land. But Sikhs in Haryana united and drove him out. So much rich history of Sikh rulers is connected with Haryana yet Sikh rulers never did parchar there and till date Haryanvis are non Sikhs. The only Sikhs you see there are the ones who settled there after partition. Same thing happened in Lahore kingdom. Despite being rulers of such a large land, Sikh rulers never took advantage of this to do parchar and spread Sikhi to the masses.

[proactive]

There is a difference between Khatri Sikhs in Punjab and those of Delhi. The Dal Khalsa in it's early days was dominated by Khatri Sikhs. Gajinder Singh was a famous leader of theirs who hijacked a plane to Pakistan and was jailed there for many years.

A large majority of Khatris of Delhi are the likes of Khushwant Singh (both daughters married to Hindus), Manmohan Singh (2 out of 3 daughters married to Hindus)

On the subject of the Delhi 1984 genocide, some of the accused of the transistor bomb blasts of May 1985 which were placed on DTC Buses (which were used to ferry mobs to Sikh colonies during the violence) and slums (from where mobs were collected) as well trains were Khatri Sikhs of Delhi.

[Bhau]

Most of the Virks from west Punjab almost all settled in Karnal. Haryana's history with Sikhs is not new. Baba Banda Singh Bahadur ruled over large parts of Haryana. Even during misal periad, various Sikh groups ruled over large parts of Haryana. Phulkian Sardars like Jind and even misldars like Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgaria stayed in Haryana for a while. There was a sort of contest between Sikhs and Marathas over dominance of Haryana. Then briefly there was an Irish adventurer by the name of George Thomas who tried to become king of this land. But Sikhs in Haryana united and drove him out. So much rich history of Sikh rulers is connected with Haryana yet Sikh rulers never did parchar there and till date Haryanvis are non Sikhs. The only Sikhs you see there are the ones who settled there after partition. Same thing happened in Lahore kingdom. Despite being rulers of such a large land, Sikh rulers never took advantage of this to do parchar and spread Sikhi to the masses.

My nanke are in jind district. They settled here after partition from Tehsil Chunian Dist. Lahore. The sikh rulers dont have an impressive record of doing parchar and spreading sikhi to the masses. We missed a huge oppurtunity of bringing a large number of muslims of west punjab and jats of haryana into the fold of sikhi.

[Jonny101]

My nanke are in jind district. They settled here after partition from Tehsil Chunian Dist. Lahore. The sikh rulers dont have an impressive record of doing parchar and spreading sikhi to the masses. We missed a huge oppurtunity of bringing a large number of muslims of west punjab and jats of haryana into the fold of sikhi.

true. it seems when Sikhs become rulers they sadly become secularists. Equal opportunists making Hindus and Muslims into ministers and generals of a Sikh state. Only Baba Banda Singh Bahadur Jee was such a ruler who had a Sikh first policy. All of his generals, ministers, kiladaars, faujdars were Sikhs or people who converted to Sikhi. During his time, thousands of Muslims converted to Sikhi.