Lost Heritage - The Sikh Legacy In Pakistan

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Yes they were mainly khatri, arora and rajput hindus who practised this whole eldest son being a sikh etc. Then u get hindus panjabis tellin us how ALL of the sikh kaum has come out of this practise. If that was the case, how come khatri/arora/rajput sikhs BARELY make up 10-15% of the sikh population now, n not 100%?

What's the difference between Rajputs and Khatris? Aren't they both Shastardhari Hindus?

[StarStriker]

Is it these Sikhs of urban mercantile backgrounds who left West Punjab that make up the bulk of the Delhi Sikh population?

Yea khatri sikhs and bhatra sikhs make up most of the sikh community in delhi/UP.

What's the difference between Rajputs and Khatris? Aren't they both Shastardhari Hindus?

I think they r similar, but have differences. Kind of like how jatts, gujjars r both known as landowners in past 300 yrs or so, but r of different stock.

[Jonny101]

Yea khatri sikhs and bhatra sikhs make up most of the sikh community in delhi/UP.

I think they r similar, but have differences. Kind of like how jatts, gujjars r both known as landowners in past 300 yrs or so, but r of different stock.

Gujjars are traditionally cow/buffalow/goat herders and because of this they were also milkmen. It is said that since they drank alot of milk and did physically hard work they were also tall and physically strong. Even today in Pak Punjab alot of their kabadi players and wrestlers are Gujjars.

Punjabi Rajputs were mainly farmers by profession. The ones from pothohar joined the army in large numbers during british era. Even today the Pak army is dominated by these same Mussalman Punjabi Rajputs of pothohar. Besides them the Gakhars, janjuas, Awans, Alpials, khokhars were a warlike people. It is with these people that the Bhangi Missal fought with and made them submit to Sikh rule.

[StarStriker]

Gujjars are traditionally cow/buffalow/goat herders and because of this they were also milkmen. It is said that since they drank alot of milk and did physically hard work they were also tall and physically strong. Even today in Pak Punjab alot of their kabadi players and wrestlers are Gujjars.

Punjabi Rajputs were mainly farmers by profession. The ones from pothohar joined the army in large numbers during british era. Even today the Pak army is dominated by these same Mussalman Punjabi Rajputs of pothohar. Besides them the Gakhars, janjuas, Awans, Alpials, khokhars were a warlike people. It is with these people that the Bhangi Missal fought with and made them submit to Sikh rule.

Nice. Great post as usal johnny

[Bhau]

We know all that but what we're saying is that the author has deliberately chosen to neglect from this book everything about the legacy in Pakistan of the jatt Sikhs, choosing instead, to make the cultural legacy of the urban sikhs the defining legacy of Sikhs in that part of Punjab. What we're saying is that historically, all our authors have been doing this for the last 100 years. Mostly because, for the last 100 years, most of our authors have been from that privileged elite urban stock but the result, as proactive has mentioned, is that it has given the wider world a false and unbalanced window into the 'Sikhs'. This book then is aptly has the word 'legacy' in its title because it is continuing the legacy of pretending that the jatt Sikhs just ain't there and certainly just don't matter. In previous generations, the authors used to get away with that scott free because most of the jatt Sikhs were not book readers and didn't even know what what happening in the literary world. Today, however, the western world is choc a block full of educated jatt Sikhs who are not only vocal but also very capable of pointing out the clear faults with this new book.

I was only referring to first part of proactive's statement in which he stated that the sikh jatts from lyallpur and montgomery made about 1/3rd of total sikh jatt population that migrated from west to east punjab. Also wanted to give other members a brief history of canal colonies.

[Bhau]

Other than that i agree whole heartedly that public perception of partition is greatly skewed in favour of migration and hardships of khatri sikhs from potohar, rawalpindi, peshawar etc by the indian media and writers. The loss of life and property of jatt sikhs has been relegated to a secondary role, if any. Also want to point out that a significant and prosperous jatt sikh community is present in UP in rural Terai region in areas like Pilibhit etc. They migrated mostly from lahore, sialkot and lyallpur districts. The Terai region was the biggest hotbead of militancy outside Amritsar-Tarn Taran-Gurdaspur division.

[Jonny101]

Other than that i agree whole heartedly that public perception of partition is greatly skewed in favour of migration and hardships of khatri sikhs from potohar, rawalpindi, peshawar etc by the indian media and writers. The loss of life and property of jatt sikhs has been relegated to a secondary role, if any. Also want to point out that a significant and prosperous jatt sikh community is present in UP in rural Terai region in areas like Pilibhit etc. They migrated mostly from lahore, sialkot and lyallpur districts. The Terai region was the biggest hotbead of militancy outside Amritsar-Tarn Taran-Gurdaspur division.

True about Tarai region. Even though it was outside of PUnjab but it was a hotbed of Sikh jhujaroos. A relative of mine from my mothers side who was from tarai became a Shaheed. People there literally own hundreds of acres of land per family just like the Sikhs who lived in Sandalbaar before partition. Land during the 50s and 60s was pretty cheap. Many people in Punjab sold their land in Punjab during that time and bought in UP. Back then it was all forested area. With a lot of hard work the jungles were cleared and farms were established. Basically it was Sandalbaar all over again.

[Bhau]

Right jonny101. Even i have a bhua and some relatives over there. They battled jungle, marshes and malaria to make the land useable. They practically created their own little Majha with huge tracts of lands and their 'Behaks'. Many families suffered a lot during militancy. Another hotbead of militancy was in haryana in districts of jind, karnal etc which too were settled by jatt sikhs from lahore, sialkot etc.

[MisterrSingh]

A relative of mine from my mothers side.... became a Shaheed.

OT, but same here (my mum), a direct relation of the mother of the Shaheed actually. As a kid, the things I use to hear about him and other Shaheeds after they'd passed would send a shiver down the spine (all great things of course).

[proactive]

I have to agree with brother proactive on this one. The areas of lyallpur and montgomery(sahiwal) are referred to as 'Bars'. The name Bar was given to areas which were covered with thick forests but fertile soil and were recently sparcely populated until the advent of canals by the British. As a result large tracts of lands became available and large number of people including jatt sikhs settled here from as far as jalandhar district. District lyallpur is known as 'Sandal Bar' and montgomery is known as 'Neeli Bar'. Its from this area that the famous buffalo species 'Neeli Ravi' derives its name. But strictly speaking the areas of bar are not included in historical Majha because of their own Bari culture. My own family is from village Kalu Khara Tehsil Kasur Dist. Lahore. Its only about 10 km from Khem Karan Dist. Tarn Taran but on the other side of border:(

I remember my grandparents always talking and longing to go see our village and cities of lahore and kasur. It was always on their minds. My grandfather used to say famous proverb ' Jine Lahore ni vekhya, oh jammya e koni. '

Jatt sikhs were the most dominant community in western punjab owning most of the land along with one of the best irrigation system in Asia.

A large part (60%) of the Kasur tehsil of Lahore district was included in East Punjab in 1947 and this probably did some justice to the owners of the land in that tehsil as 63% of the land belonged to the Sikhs compared to only 30% belonging to Muslims.