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Sikhism On Vegan ?


thenormalguy
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well as you guys dairy is a big part in Sikhism we get kadha parshad which is made from dairy ... but what i would like to know is

as far as i understand Sikhism is against animal killing or suffering but still dairy is a big part of it which is something i do not understand ..

so can you guys please tell me what i should do ? i just find it unethical to drink milk as the milk produced is for calf's and i went to local farmers and did my own research they might say the calf will die if he drinks all the milk but they do not deny that the milk is only produced when cows are impregnated.. so please tell share your views with me

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Guest Jacfsing2

well as you guys dairy is a big part in Sikhism we get kadha parshad which is made from dairy ... but what i would like to know is

as far as i understand Sikhism is against animal killing or suffering but still dairy is a big part of it which is something i do not understand ..

so can you guys please tell me what i should do ? i just find it unethical to drink milk as the milk produced is for calf's and i went to local farmers and did my own research they might say the calf will die if he drinks all the milk but they do not deny that the milk is only produced when cows are impregnated.. so please tell share your views with me

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! No changes to Karah Prasad being made of real dairy; however, we could start moving ethically towards having the milk from Sikh farms. What you can do is, ask your committee, or your local Punj Pyare to start working on having a GurSikhi farm to grow milk for Karah Prasad. (Also just so you know, since you already started with a meat-based topic, you will get manmukhs and gurmukhs arguing about something totally different from what this topic was about). Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
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Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! No changes to Karah Prasad being made of real dairy; however, we could start moving ethically towards having the milk from Sikh farms. What you can do is, ask your committee, or your local Punj Pyare to start working on having a GurSikhi farm to grow milk for Karah Prasad. (Also just so you know, since you already started with a meat-based topic, you will get manmukhs and gurmukhs arguing about something totally different from what this topic was about). Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

well as i mentioned above milk is for calf's so i still do not want to drink it whether dairy conditions have improved or not even if it is a gursikhi farm as they will still have to impregnate cows to get the milk which is still unethical

what i do not understand is gurugranth shaib ji says in some angs http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_Granth_Sahib_on_meat

that we should not eat meat..

i get a little discomfort when i see nothing about dairy in guru granth sahib ji

as cows are mammals they only produce milk when they are pregnant and so i think any one can agree that milk is for kids and cow milk is for calfs .. so why didn't guru ji told us not to drink it when he did so for meat

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Guest Jacfsing2

well as i mentioned above milk is for calf's so i still do not want to drink it whether dairy conditions have improved or not even if it is a gursikhi farm as they will still have to impregnate cows to get the milk which is still unethical

what i do not understand is gurugranth shaib ji says in some angs http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_Granth_Sahib_on_meat

that we should not eat meat..

i get a little discomfort when i see nothing about dairy in guru granth sahib ji

as cows are mammals they only produce milk when they are pregnant and so i think any one can agree that milk is for kids and cow milk is for calfs .. so why didn't guru ji told us not to drink it when he did so for meat

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! If you are willing, I can have this conversation through the private messenger system here; (I'd rather not this topic get locked simply because some people will talk about some random stuff not related to your entire topic, because it's meat related). Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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Guest Jacfsing2

Just to be clear: I don't support any change to the Karah Prassad recipe that Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji himself had prepared and had made; this was important when Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji had went to other planets and got Karah Prassad from there.

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Guest Trucker

Calf can drink all milk

But once it grow to 2 months

Calf have teeth and they made cuts on her mother while drinking milk

We have buffalos at home india

So it is okay for buffalo baby to drink milk for two month or one months, and after that they cant survive on milk

They need to eat plants

But the cow baby cannt drink directly from mom as cows r very sensitive nd when cow baby drinks they make their moms sick, seen with my eyes

So we drink them with bottles

Nd calfs need milk for one months or two, but when a cows give birth to calf, it generates milk for next 7,8 mnths.

Calfs dnt need milk after two mnths

Proof: calf under two months or three, when allowed to go near mom, they try to drink milk from their mom

But when u allow a calf of 6,7 mnths old to go free, it will run towards plants and vegetables etc, but never go to suck milk from mom

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Guruji was against cruelty and exploitation but not for or against certain diets. So we r to make the decision about what is ethical what is not. Guruji did not give us too many rules or guidelines like other religions have about what to eat, how to eat ie kosher halal etc. Thats why some sikhs eat meat some dont cuz guruji wasnt specific about it.

Also B12 can only be found in animal sources so in the olden days ppl had choice to either drink milk or eat meat to get B12. Ofc ppl didnt know wat Vitamin B12 was but they knew wat they had to eat to be healthy. So milk is more of an ethical choice than meat, and in turn the cow was given quality care. I have seen it, cows r bathed everyday, brought fresh food and water in India. Also cows r not impregnated in India or at least not forcefully impregnated, they r allowed to naturally mate in India. Ofc the dairy farms in the west esp USA r horrible. So sikhs should not support western dairy farms.

Also this vegan diet debate about what is ethical or not is very old. This debate was fierce at the time of guru nanak dev ji. There were Vaishnavs who did not eat animals or meat because they feel pain, then there were Jains who did not eat meat or root vegetables like onions carrots because it killed the whole plant and even plants are living beings, then there were dudadharis who didn't eat any plants or animals because they r all living beings, they only drank milk because it caused the death of no living being. Guruji made fun of this debate n this obsession with being overly concerned about ethical eating in his shabad Maas Maas kar Moorakh chagare. In this debate ppl r wasting their lives n not concentrating in Naam their main purpose. So a sikh tries their best but does not become obsessive with doing ethical things cuz we have to believe this world is fake, illusion drama and transitory so we should try our best to make it better but theres a.more.important goal. Also everything is in hukam so everything that god.does is.good.

Anyway so i think parshaad can be made with any oil, cuz there r some sikh vegans here and i think they should.do that. But usually they dont eat.at the gurudwara at all, they r also bibeki.

Also the reason sikhs and indians consider milk to be ethical is because cows were treated ethically. #1 concern from vegans is that male calfs r killed in dairy farms as r old.cows who cant give milk. In india the male calfs were used as bulls and mating so werent killed and it was considered paap to kill any cow at all. That is why cows r sacred in india, because it is the only animal indians enslave and use. So to make sure it is never mistreated they made it sacred. So its a paap to kill cows or kick them out when they get old. Many ppl do kick out cows when they too old so they made Gaoshalas, cow shelters. Recently hindus were getting upset n rioting becuz some dairies were selling old n male cows to butchers in other countries. Alot of ppl made fun of those hindus that they saving their cow mother Gao Maa, but really if they allowed this to happen, their milk is not ethical any longer.

#2concern of vegans is that cows are mistreated. In india they r not. Everyone kept at least one cow an took care of it as a pet. Because if it got sick then no milk. And like i said before no impregnation. Also calfs r allowed.to drink milk for at least a month. Another concern is that cows r milked so much, they lose health. You see, the calf starts eating grass n drinks less n less milk so it stops or the cow weans the calf by hitting him if he tries to drink milk. So then the cow dries up n no more milk comes. But if we keep milking the cow, the cows body thinks calf still needs it and so will keep producing milk for many years. To make sure the cows health is not negatively affected,the cow is feed good quality strengthening foods. And after a while the cow will dry up herself or the owners let her dry up so she can regain strength and so they can mate her again.however in india they r giving upthe old ways n starting to build western styke dairies where cows r locked up and fed grain.

Concern#3 vegans think animal ownership is cruel. I think its a mutual relationship. You know one of those symbiotic relationships found in nature. We get milk, they get quality care. Also since land is diminishing cows might become extint or endangered if left in the wild. Also cows r domesticated n might not be able to survive in wild so need humans. Buffaloes ofc r wild animals and not domesticated. But they face habitat lose. So i think cows if treated right can be viewed as pets. Dogs became pets because we gave them food n they gave us protection/warning. Cats ate mice for us n we fed them. Also even dogs r chained on lease sometimes.

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Guruji was against cruelty and exploitation but not for or against certain diets. So we r to make the decision about what is ethical what is not. Guruji did not give us too many rules or guidelines like other religions have about what to eat, how to eat ie kosher halal etc. Thats why some sikhs eat meat some dont cuz guruji wasnt specific about it.

Wrong there are guidelines and people eat because of the tongue not because there was no guidelines.

Anyway so i think parshaad can be made with any oil, cuz there r some sikh vegans here and i think they should.do that. But usually they dont eat.at the gurudwara at all, they r also bibeki.

Bibeki don't eat from Gurdwara!!!! These guys should take the blinders off because the same Mona or keshdhari who is in the gurdwara kitchen is in the farms harvesting their Bibeki foods. The cows milk is not Bibeki neither is the apple neither is the carrot. The poor depend on their sweat and blood to pick these fruits and vegetables. They use their sweat covered clothing to carry foods down the farms. They smoke, drink, do other hard drugs and handle 'bibeki' food. Only true bibeki singhs these days are those who grow their own food, pump their own water (can't use the city treated water...that's a big no no), and grow their own wheat. Today we really don't know what is going into our food. Human DNA and rat DNA are in a lot of foods these days. Buy anything these days and at one point there was creatures in your food. Birds, rats worms slugs you name it. They all have been purified by the manufacturer so you don't get sick or taste it.

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