Need Help Countering Arguments Made by Naamdharis

[Akalifauj]

2 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

exactly, and even though the naamdharis aren't following hukam of Adi Granth as Guru roop, they are following some traditions which are very important to being a sikh. The problem with mainstream sikhs is, that we have the ego in saying we are following Guru ji and so are the true sikhs, however we are not ready to follow the enriching and spiritual traditions of Guru ji which the naamdharis are already following.

We must shed this ego first and follow actual maryada. At the moment there are cults/sects which claim to follow Adi Granth as Guru but at the same time they are destroying the sikhi traditions far worse than the naamdharis are. 

Just a few years back one of the split branches of naamdharis said they want to come back to following Adi Guru Granth Sahib like rest of panth. If we had sikhs like that instead of the lazy ones now, how the panth would improve!

At the moment I kind of respect naamdharis because mainstream sikhs make me ashamed as they are not trying as hard at following maryada, and some sects are trying to destroy our traditions. Maybe in another reality or time things would be different and I would be able to respect mainstream sikhs instead of others.

Another Sikh who hates himself.  Plus you did not understand my post to you.  

[Akalifauj]

Mainstream Sikhs can always be doing a better job of staying with maryada.  But the first and utmost important maryada is to only accept Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as the Guru.  Naamdhari failed to obey this maryada.  Singing Gurbani in raag means nothing to them because they don't accept the Gurus hukam.  Japji sahib is clear; accept Gurus hukam only.  Naamdhari accept a pakhandis hukam.  

[ipledgeblue]

On 26/12/2017 at 2:13 AM, Akalifauj said:

Mainstream Sikhs can always be doing a better job of staying with maryada.  But the first and utmost important maryada is to only accept Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as the Guru.  Naamdhari failed to obey this maryada.  Singing Gurbani in raag means nothing to them because they don't accept the Gurus hukam.  Japji sahib is clear; accept Gurus hukam only.  Naamdhari accept a pakhandis hukam.  

they are, but when will mainstream accept the Guru hukam of doing keertan?

[TheeTurbanator]

On 12/28/2017 at 3:19 AM, ipledgeblue said:

they are, but when will mainstream accept the Guru hukam of doing keertan?

Accepting the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the Guru is far more important than doing fancy kirtan.

 

The type of Kirtan that namdharis do isnt "preserved" from the original kirtan the Guru did, they had to go to others to learn it. Doing kirtan a certain way means nothing if you dont have love for the Guru, the SAT GURU which isnt any of the fake Namdhari babas...

[MrDoaba]

10 minutes ago, TheeTurbanator said:

Accepting the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the Guru is far more important than doing fancy kirtan.

The type of Kirtan that namdharis do isnt "preserved" from the original kirtan the Guru did, they had to go to others to learn it. Doing kirtan a certain way means nothing if you dont have love for the Guru, the SAT GURU which isnt any of the fake Namdhari babas...

You mean Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Not "the". And it's a bit insulting to Raag Vidya to call it "fancy kirtan".

And you should look up the definitions of preserve.

[TheeTurbanator]

On 2017-12-31 at 5:21 PM, MrDoaba said:

You mean Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Not "the". And it's a bit insulting to Raag Vidya to call it "fancy kirtan".

And you should look up the definitions of preserve.

First off, I mean didn’t mean “the”, I was obviously referring to the one true Guru, which as stated in Gurbani there is only One. I have no idea why you are nitpicking something so small. But that’s probably all you can do because your argument doesn’t have much merit to it so you have to nitpick stupid things. 

Raag Vidya means nothing without the truth. Even an athiest could sing Raag, but that wouldn’t have much merit to it in terms of Sikhi. The fact that people overlook the Namdharis lies and manipulations of Sikhi and say “oh but look at their Kirtan”, just makes me cringe. 

You should look up the definition of preserve. The type of Kirtan the Namdhari cultists do isn’t the same as the Guru. They learned from others how to do it. The Namdharis didn’t always do Raag Kirtan, until one of their babas sent people to go learn it from others. 

[Guest]

I heard namdharis originally did Akhand Kirtan but their fake 'guru' told them to do raag.

[MrDoaba]

59 minutes ago, TheeTurbanator said:

First off, I mean didn’t mean “the”, I was obviously referring to the one true Guru, which as stated in Gurbani there is only One. I have no idea why you are nitpicking something so small. But that’s probably all you can do because your argument doesn’t have much merit to it so you have to nitpick stupid things. 

Fair enough. It would be true that I was nitpicking if I was actually making an argument.

59 minutes ago, TheeTurbanator said:

Raag Vidya means nothing without the truth. Even an athiest could sing Raag, but that wouldn’t have much merit to it in terms of Sikhi. The fact that people overlook the Namdharis lies and manipulations of Sikhi and say “oh but look at their Kirtan”, just makes me cringe. 

I'm not debating whether they have the truth or not. My comments were simply in response to you insulting Raag. I never said "oh but look at their kirtan".

59 minutes ago, TheeTurbanator said:

You should look up the definition of preserve. The type of Kirtan the Namdhari cultists do isn’t the same as the Guru. They learned from others how to do it. The Namdharis didn’t always do Raag Kirtan, until one of their babas sent people to go learn it from others. 

I see. I'm sure you were around at the time of the Gurus to hear what their Kirtan was like.

preserve

verb
[with object]

1 Maintain (something) in its original or existing state. Such as Raag Kirtan.
    ‘All records of the past were zealously preserved’                                                      

1.1 Retain (a condition or state of affairs) Such as Raag Kirtan.
       ‘a fight to preserve local democracy’

1.2 Maintain or keep alive (a memory or quality) Such as Raag Vidya.
       ‘the film has preserved all the qualities of the novel’

1.3 Keep safe from harm or injury. Such as Raag Vidya and Kirtan.
       ‘a place for preserving endangered species’

Learning from others is usually how art is transmitted. Their Baba sent them to learn it from others because that is how you learn. He sent them to learn it because that's what Kirtan is supposed to sound like.

Many many mainstream Sikhs also have Namdhaari Ustaads. It's no different than learning from a Hindu or Muslim Raagi. You don't have to follow their ideology to learn an art.

Raag isn't exclusive to Namdhaaris, or Sikhs for that matter, so your argument is void.

On a side note I might go to a Namdhaari Kirtan Darbaar one day. You should go too.