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Need help answering a Christian's Questions on the nature of Waheguru in Sikhi


TheeTurbanator
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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! 

 

Here is a question i I received from a Christian who is studying Sikhi: 

If waheguru is eternal and encompasses the universe (but not limited to just the universe itself) and has existed always and will always continue to exist, how did ego enter into at least part of the world? if waheguru is inside all things including humans, at what point did parts of waheguru (by parts I mean humans, animals etc) get "infected" with ego? It would stand to reason that something pure like waheguru could never succumb to ego. for example the gurus or fully realized people will never succumb to ego again, correct? so if waheguru existed eternally, how did ego enter? has ego also existed eternally with waheguru? (I don't think this is the Sikhi standpoint).

Is it possible for waheguru to cease existing permanently, or for waheguru to tell lies? I would assume that it would not be, since it goes against waheguru's nature, correct? Why would waheguru create confusion/ego/illusion and cause part of itself to be deluded?

How do Sikh's know then that the Gurus never made a mistake, if as you say it's possible for a fully realized person to become deluded? Based on this, is it even possible that waheguru spoke some falsehoods or lies, even in the SGGS or part of the Sikh teachings?” 

How would you answere this question? 

 

 

 

 

 

 
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20 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

 

Do you ever actually do veechaar with Sikhs or only with people of other faiths?

 

This has nothing to do with the post, and I don’t know why you’re asking me this question, but to answere your question, yes, I do veechaar with Sikhs. 

I am the moderator on Reddit.com/r/Sikh and contribute the most to answering questions. When I myself have questions, I come here to get a different perspective because I don’t want to be stuck in an intellectual echo chamber. 

Please, for future reference, please try to answere the question on my posts, otherwise If you have any personal questions you can private message me. 

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talk about the 4 jugs, satjug to kaljug. People remembered vaheguru in satjug, they do not in kaljug. They forgot God, because God made them do so, but he is still inside of them. That is why we do simran, to find and merge with God within ourselves. We are not really seperated from Vaheguru in the first place, we are just overtaken by Maya and completely forget about Vaheguru, because of Vaheguru's will. We do bhagti to find Vaheguru is dissolved in everything completely and all darkness goes away. Once we forgot Vaheguru, we thought that we ourselves our individiuals, and that individualism has all ego and rooted to all problems leading to today. Just read more gurbani dude. We could talk about this for so much time. I just wanted to give a really short answer.

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2 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! 

 

Here is a question i I received from a Christian who is studying Sikhi: 

If waheguru is eternal and encompasses the universe (but not limited to just the universe itself) and has existed always and will always continue to exist, how did ego enter into at least part of the world? if waheguru is inside all things including humans, at what point did parts of waheguru (by parts I mean humans, animals etc) get "infected" with ego? It would stand to reason that something pure like waheguru could never succumb to ego. for example the gurus or fully realized people will never succumb to ego again, correct? so if waheguru existed eternally, how did ego enter? has ego also existed eternally with waheguru? (I don't think this is the Sikhi standpoint).

Is it possible for waheguru to cease existing permanently, or for waheguru to tell lies? I would assume that it would not be, since it goes against waheguru's nature, correct? Why would waheguru create confusion/ego/illusion and cause part of itself to be deluded?

How do Sikh's know then that the Gurus never made a mistake, if as you say it's possible for a fully realized person to become deluded? Based on this, is it even possible that waheguru spoke some falsehoods or lies, even in the SGGS or part of the Sikh teachings?” 

How would you answere this question? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For christians the answer is in genesis. In the creation story. That the alpha omega created this world from the void. That God created the heavens and the earth. God created beings in his own image, his own immortal divine image. That he also created free will and advised creation not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, duality. It was after eating of this knowledge that man came to find itself naked , in body, and seemingly separated from God. 

When christ said "I am the truth and the light, the way to heaven is through me" he was not speaking as an ego separate from God but from the state of full unification with the creator.  What sikhism calls sanyog?

Christians mistake this quote to be said by the man Jesus, not the spirit of the Christ speaking from the place of total unification. They think all they have to do is say "I'm with Jesus, he died for my sins, so I'm good." 

The word Christian means to be christ like, not christ claiming. It was through Jesus' example of compassion, protectiveness, truth, and turning one's entire attention to God that he was saving those that follow his example from sin. 

Christ prayed to God not his own ego. Christ's prayer says

"Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed by thy name. "

Recognizes the the creator and the sanctity of his name. 

Ek om kar, sat naam

"Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven "

Removal of our damas and desires, the panj chor is it? Unify with God's will not our own.

"Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us"

Provide our basic needs and either forgive us at the same time, or to the same degree we forgive others. 

"Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil"

Free us from our desire lust etc and save us from our separation and ego. 

"For thine is the kingdom and the power and glory for ever" is often said at the end. 

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh

There is nothing new on the subject of truth.  Truth is that which never changes. Ego, bodies, desires all change. These things are not real, they are appearances. When we let go of the false apparencies we are left with the truth of who are, the image we are truly created in, immortal and free in sanyog with Vaheguru. Vaheguru's way is not to force this on us, we will one day realize the truth of our oneness. In this illusory world we are free to pretend otherwise as long as we like. 

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2 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

Here is a question i I received from a Christian who is studying Sikhi: 

Before anything else, you need to ascertain what this Christian's motive is. More than likely, it is that he is obsessed with "refuting" Sikhism so he can rest well that there's no threat to his Christianity. You need to know what the point of him asking these questions is.

Westerners love to twist themselves into a knot with these types of (to them) philosophical questions, which is really going astray from the point of life. Knowledge doesn't arise from this sort of intellectual ****ing, but rather from abhias of the Guru's word.

To shock your Christian "friend' out of his stupor, you should ask him, 

Is Jehovah (a Biblical word for God) eternal? 

Is Jehovah within all beings? If not, then why was Hitler bad? If He is within all beings, then why do you eat meat? If He is just in human beings, then why did you steal from Jehovah (when you--the British empire) stole the Sikh Kingdom from us?

When did sin come into humans? Why did Jehovah create sin? Does Jehovah have a dirty mind? If so, Jehovah is dirty? If so, why should man worship Him? If Jehovah isn't dirty, then how did he come up with sin, which encompasses all sorts of dirty actions and thoughts? Also, did sin exist eternally with Jehovah?

Does Jehovah lie? Why did he lie when he created the evolutionary/fossil/chronological record? (Some Christians believe the world is only 6000 years old and that God created a false fossil/geological record older than that in order to test our faith.) 

Was the world created in 6 days? If so, why did it take 6 days? Couldn't Jehovah have done it in one day, or even an instant? Was He using a old Apple iPhone, which Apple had deliberately slowed down, to plan the Creation? Or did he not take 6 days, but rather billions of years? If so, did Jehovah lie in the Bible? Or did Jehovah not lie, but the writers of the Bible did? If so, that means the Bible contains lies? If so, how can you trust anything about the Bible? What other things did Jehovah lie about?

Chances are, your Christian "friend" will say something to the effect of "Well, what's the point of getting into these abstruse philosophical questions? I just believe in Jesus as my savior and Lord." At which point you can say, "Exactly."

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2 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Before anything else, you need to ascertain what this Christian's motive is. More than likely, it is that he is obsessed with "refuting" Sikhism so he can rest well that there's no threat to his Christianity. You need to know what the point of him asking these questions is.

Westerners love to twist themselves into a knot with these types of (to them) philosophical questions, which is really going astray from the point of life. Knowledge doesn't arise from this sort of intellectual ****ing, but rather from abhias of the Guru's word.

To shock your Christian "friend' out of his stupor, you should ask him, 

Is Jehovah (a Biblical word for God) eternal? 

Is Jehovah within all beings? If not, then why was Hitler bad? If He is within all beings, then why do you eat meat? If He is just in human beings, then why did you steal from Jehovah (when you--the British empire) stole the Sikh Kingdom from us?

When did sin come into humans? Why did Jehovah create sin? Does Jehovah have a dirty mind? If so, Jehovah is dirty? If so, why should man worship Him? If Jehovah isn't dirty, then how did he come up with sin, which encompasses all sorts of dirty actions and thoughts? Also, did sin exist eternally with Jehovah?

Does Jehovah lie? Why did he lie when he created the evolutionary/fossil/chronological record? (Some Christians believe the world is only 6000 years old and that God created a false fossil/geological record older than that in order to test our faith.) 

Was the world created in 6 days? If so, why did it take 6 days? Couldn't Jehovah have done it in one day, or even an instant? Was He using a old Apple iPhone, which Apple had deliberately slowed down, to plan the Creation? Or did he not take 6 days, but rather billions of years? If so, did Jehovah lie in the Bible? Or did Jehovah not lie, but the writers of the Bible did? If so, that means the Bible contains lies? If so, how can you trust anything about the Bible? What other things did Jehovah lie about?

Chances are, your Christian "friend" will say something to the effect of "Well, what's the point of getting into these abstruse philosophical questions? I just believe in Jesus as my savior and Lord." At which point you can say, "Exactly."

Your christian friend may be seeking to better understand or may very well likely be doing what was said above. 

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2 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Before anything else, you need to ascertain what this Christian's motive is. More than likely, it is that he is obsessed with "refuting" Sikhism so he can rest well that there's no threat to his Christianity. You need to know what the point of him asking these questions is.

Westerners love to twist themselves into a knot with these types of (to them) philosophical questions, which is really going astray from the point of life. Knowledge doesn't arise from this sort of intellectual ****ing, but rather from abhias of the Guru's word.

To shock your Christian "friend' out of his stupor, you should ask him, 

Is Jehovah (a Biblical word for God) eternal? 

Is Jehovah within all beings? If not, then why was Hitler bad? If He is within all beings, then why do you eat meat? If He is just in human beings, then why did you steal from Jehovah (when you--the British empire) stole the Sikh Kingdom from us?

When did sin come into humans? Why did Jehovah create sin? Does Jehovah have a dirty mind? If so, Jehovah is dirty? If so, why should man worship Him? If Jehovah isn't dirty, then how did he come up with sin, which encompasses all sorts of dirty actions and thoughts? Also, did sin exist eternally with Jehovah?

Does Jehovah lie? Why did he lie when he created the evolutionary/fossil/chronological record? (Some Christians believe the world is only 6000 years old and that God created a false fossil/geological record older than that in order to test our faith.) 

Was the world created in 6 days? If so, why did it take 6 days? Couldn't Jehovah have done it in one day, or even an instant? Was He using a old Apple iPhone, which Apple had deliberately slowed down, to plan the Creation? Or did he not take 6 days, but rather billions of years? If so, did Jehovah lie in the Bible? Or did Jehovah not lie, but the writers of the Bible did? If so, that means the Bible contains lies? If so, how can you trust anything about the Bible? What other things did Jehovah lie about?

Chances are, your Christian "friend" will say something to the effect of "Well, what's the point of getting into these abstruse philosophical questions? I just believe in Jesus as my savior and Lord." At which point you can say, "Exactly."

i agree. Try to find the intentions of your friend. Maybe he's curious, I have doubts however. 

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3 hours ago, TheeTurbanator said:

This has nothing to do with the post, and I don’t know why you’re asking me this question, but to answere your question, yes, I do veechaar with Sikhs. 

I am the moderator on Reddit.com/r/Sikh and contribute the most to answering questions. When I myself have questions, I come here to get a different perspective because I don’t want to be stuck in an intellectual echo chamber. 

Please, for future reference, please try to answere the question on my posts, otherwise If you have any personal questions you can private message me. 

I wound up in your irc before finding this place. It was just empty at the time. 

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