Do Sikhs have blind faith?

[harsharan000]

2 hours ago, mahandulai said:

ignorant

That is what you are by signing it so.

The more nonsense you write the more you expose how low minded you are.

You have nothing positive to say, you just pour out the inmense dirty rubbish you have within.

Will  it end some day? How long will you shamelessly keep vomiting your nonsense.

Just stop fooling.

[mahandulai]

4 hours ago, harsharan000 said:

You are totally wrong as usual.

Gurbani  is no story, but Sat Bachan from the supreme authority Guru Sahiban.

The Truth of Wahiguru is from the very  begining, nothing new about Him can be added or said, Wahiguru is sada sada new and fresh, He does not  become old as per your evil thiking, just because Guru Sahiban  left in written His apaar mahima for us later generations.

Fools think they know more than Guru Sahiban, so they out  of utter ignorance question  the teachings and call  them 300 years ago stories.

 

Only a mentally musla like you, can say such amount nonsense about sikhee.

Get lost, shameless

if anything you have the 'musla' mentality. believing for the sake of believing, because even it was proved wrong, youd find someway to justify it, and call it the 'ultimate test' or something.

for clarity, so viewers know, and you too, becaue you never listen,

i am saying, 'sggs' is true and everything, but stories from a long time ago, cant be accounted for. and this is FACT.

[mahandulai]

3 hours ago, harsharan000 said:

That is what you are by signing it so.

The more nonsense you write the more you expose how low minded you are.

You have nothing positive to say, you just pour out the inmense dirty rubbish you have within.

Will  it end some day? How long will you shamelessly keep vomiting your nonsense.

Just stop fooling.

riddle me this,

can you really account for something, spoken so long ago, with history changed all the time, and lost in the ages....?

 no, the answer is no, whether it is 2000 years ago, or 20 years, we still do not know what happened in amritsar in 1984. let that be a sign, ... that ... our sikhi should not be following what stories you heard of sikhs in 1600s, and instead, focusing on today..!

 

[harsharan000]

Just now, mahandulai said:

riddle me this,

can you really account for something, spoken so loPurukhago, with history changed all the time, and lost in the ages....?

 no, the answer is no, whether it is 2000 years ago, or 20 years, we still do not know what happened in amritsar in 1984. let that be a sign, ... that ... our sikhi should not be following what stories you heard of sikhs in 1600s, and instead, focusing on today..!

 

As usual  you are  cunningly mixing two different things, one is history and the other is SGGS.

In which way does one affect the other?

It is but just natural people, civlizations, to come and dissapear.

The important thing is that which is eternal and unchageable, which Guru Sahiban describe is :

Aad Sach

Jugad Sach

Hae bhee Sach

Nanak hosee bhee Sach

People and history are relatively important, but the main and most important is Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

If He is present nothing more matters.

Having said this much,  it could be added that you are so wicked and low minded that you can not tolerate and thus question the expressions of love or faith of our dear sikh brothers and sisters throughout the history.

You are dry, you have no love nor faith for Akal Purukh, and you wickedly try to put down those who express theirs.

We are all to sing the glory of Akal Purukh through Gurbani, everything else is secondary, moreover your nonsense is utter 5hit.

Shame shame shame on you.

 

[mahandulai]

20 hours ago, harsharan000 said:

As usual  you are  cunningly mixing two different things, one is history and the other is SGGS.

In which way does one affect the other?

It is but just natural people, civlizations, to come and dissapear.

The important thing is that which is eternal and unchageable, which Guru Sahiban describe is :

Aad Sach

Jugad Sach

Hae bhee Sach

Nanak hosee bhee Sach

People and history are relatively important, but the main and most important is Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

If He is present nothing more matters.

Having said this much,  it could be added that you are so wicked and low minded that you can not tolerate and thus question the expressions of love or faith of our dear sikh brothers and sisters throughout the history.

You are dry, you have no love nor faith for Akal Purukh, and you wickedly try to put down those who express theirs.

We are all to sing the glory of Akal Purukh through Gurbani, everything else is secondary, moreover your nonsense is utter 5hit.

Shame shame shame on you.

 

no shame here,

I'm not saying don't have faith,

I'm saying don't have the faith for the wrong reason - which in this case, for many seems to be, is relying on stories from so long ago.

[harsharan000]

1 hour ago, mahandulai said:

no shame here,

I'm not saying don't have faith,

I'm saying don't have the faith forspiritual wrong reason - which in this case, for many seems to be, is relying on stories from so long ago.

Can you kindly tell us which stories are you referring?

Sangat  have faith not by stories but by the Sat Bachan of Guru Jee.

Stories are stories, but the Satbachan in Gurbani is the only permanent Truth, and also the means of love, faith and  spiritual realization.

So stop talking of stories  and history to attack the sangat.

You have been asked several times, but you always escape and avoid answering about the roots of your nonsense.

If you attack almost all the members here....just tell us what do you believe is right and people should do, for if you attack somuch....there must be something in your agenda, so why do not you clearly place your thoughts, instead of first asking us, then putting it down always.

Be a man of dignity, come forward with your views,  place them before us, no matter how absurd they maybe, but just do not throw the stone and hide your hand.

Once again I repeat you, nobody places their faith in stories, but in the Satbachan of Guru Jee only.

Stories may or may not confirm anything, but it is the Bachans of Guru Jee which are changeless and eternal, be it any yuga.

Just for your kind information see the utmost Truth in the following Satbachans:

Ik Oankar

Aad Sach

Jugad  Sach

Hae bhee Sach

Nanak hosee bhee Sach

And the words of Guru Jee are authority by themself, they need

no support from any stories.

Is that clear enough?

Sat Sree Akal

 

[mahandulai]

20 minutes ago, harsharan000 said:

Can you kindly tell us which stories are you referring?

Sangat  have faith not by stories but by the Sat Bachan of Guru Jee.

Stories are stories, but the Satbachan in Gurbani is the only permanent Truth, and also the means of love, faith and  spiritual realization.

So stop talking of stories  and history to attack the sangat.

You have been asked several times, but you always escape and avoid answering about the roots of your nonsense.

If you attack almost all the members here....just tell us what do you believe is right and people should do, for if you attack somuch....there must be something in your agenda, so why do not you clearly place your thoughts, instead of first asking us, then putting it down always.

Be a man of dignity, come forward with your views,  place them before us, no matter how absurd they maybe, but just do not throw the stone and hide your hand.

Once again I repeat you, nobody places their faith in stories, but in the Satbachan of Guru Jee only.

Stories may or may not confirm anything, but it is the Bachans of Guru Jee which are changeless and eternal, be it any yuga.

Just for your kind information see the utmost Truth in the following Satbachans:

Ik Oankar

Aad Sach

Jugad  Sach

Hae bhee Sach

Nanak hosee bhee Sach

And the words of Guru Jee are authority by themself, they need

no support from any stories.

Is that clear enough?

Sat Sree Akal

 

my views are there.

[harsharan000]

Just now, mahandulai said:

my views are there.

There where? 

I have not seen them written nor mentioned by you anywhere,  please show us where or when.?

Thanks.

[mahandulai]

27 minutes ago, harsharan000 said:

There where? 

I have not seen them written nor mentioned by you anywhere,  please show us where or when.?

Thanks.

check the mahandulai is a troll thread, all pointed out.

[chatanga1]

On 10/20/2018 at 12:13 PM, mahandulai said:

Where is the line between, wanting to believe in all these sakhis that make sense, and really thinking for yourself?

 

That line, will differ from Sikh to Sikh. Some will believe all sakhis relating to the Gurus, and some will believe very few. What determines this line, is what your perception of the "Guru" is.

My friend who has a year ago become a Sikh (from another religion) always says "The Gurus were perfect and capable of anything!" And he really believes it. So if he were to hear the sakhi of Bhai Lehna being told to eat a dead body, on the orders of Guru Nanak he has no trouble in believing it.

Other people may not feel the same about the Gurus, and say that Guru Nanak would never have made such a demand. They feel that there would be no logic/understanding in Guru Nanak Dev Ji asking this of Bhai Lehna.

The line, is wherever you yourself are my friend. Nowhere else.

 

On 10/25/2018 at 2:04 PM, mahandulai said:

how do even know what guru said, back then.

look. lets say guru is 100 percent right and perfect, how do you know, what you are listening to and reading, are his words....

 

On 10/26/2018 at 1:18 PM, mahandulai said:

I'm not claiming this,

imagine all 10 gurus were perfect, then in that time, how do we know essential books weren't lost in the last 300 years.

"let's say" and "imagine" ?

Why ask questions based on hypothetical belief?

For me, there is no "let's say" and "imagine."

 

The questions you pose are answered by the actual structure of SGGS. The Gurus employed a numbering system so that there cannot be any alterations. The oldest saroops that exist can prove this. If you go onto Sikh Digital Library you will see saroops from the Guru's own times.

 

If you are talking about historical anecdotes then most likely the teller will add his own embellishments in order to keep the story and it's audience connected. There is some filler, not a lot mind you, in certain sakhis ie of Bhai Maha Singh and the Chali Mukte.

 

On 10/27/2018 at 4:20 PM, mahandulai said:

i am saying we dont know, fully.

pls get this 

 

Of course we don't know fully. We don't know because we weren't there to witness it and record it.

But there is a difference between rejecting what others saw/felt/experienced/heard just because of our own personal foibles.

 

 

On 10/28/2018 at 9:41 AM, mahandulai said:

my reply to his comment on another thread was:

I am not proving things wrong, but questioning,  when all your belief is from some story, hundreds of years ago.

"all" of your belief?

No Sikh places his total belief on stories. Sikhs places their beliefs primarily on Gurbani and then sakhis.

 

 

On 10/28/2018 at 4:33 PM, mahandulai said:

i am saying, 'sggs' is true and everything, but stories from a long time ago, cant be accounted for. and this is FACT.

Of course it is a fact that SOME stories can't be accounted for. But Gurmat has also been passed down by oral tradition for quite a few decades.

Now you say that "SGGS is true and everything" but the first solid evidence we have of this is from Gurbilas patshahi 10 which was written some 4 decades after.

How can you make your about SGGS unless you actually have some faith that it actually happened although its a little hard to prove?

 

 

On 10/28/2018 at 4:36 PM, mahandulai said:

can you really account for something, spoken so long ago, with history changed all the time, and lost in the ages....?

 

No you most likely can't. But none of the older Sikh texts have gone through such a change that I know of. Which text (where the sakhis are based on) do you feel have?

On 10/28/2018 at 4:36 PM, mahandulai said:

 no, the answer is no, whether it is 2000 years ago, or 20 years, we still do not know what happened in amritsar in 1984. let that be a sign, ... that ... our sikhi should not be following what stories you heard of sikhs in 1600s, and instead, focusing on today..!

 

Well in that case do you really need to wear that turban and keep your kes? We don't REALLY know what happened on Vaisaikhi of 1699 do we. Its not written in SGGS. So let's forget all about the event. It most likely has changed all the time and the original event must have got lost in the ages....?

And let's focus on today where very few Sikhs actually want to keep kes and wear turbans. Let's make it easy for them by teling them Vaisakhi was something else, and they can see their nearest barbers when ever they want.