"Chand" - Is it a Khanda???

[Deep Singh]

OK, so now i feel we have come a long way..

Lets summarize. there are these different views:

1. Aad-Chand: Chand consists of a cresent and a bhagauti/khanda. Chand represents Shivji (?), and Khanda is the shivling.

2. Suraaj Vanse and Chandar Vanse theory: Chand represents the moon (and sun). It is from Shivji. So that the Khalsa that wears it is tyarr-bar-tyarr, both night and day.

3. Miri-Piri: The two edges of the Chand are actually two swords, hence the miri-piri concept is related to it. It is also related to Degh-oh-Tegh.

4. Shiv-Saroop: Chand represents Shivji on the earth, so anyone who wears it has the shakti that is of shivji. The bhagauti is Akal Purakh's Sword. (in some places Bhagauti is said to be Chandi/Chandi's power/Chandi's sword...and related to the female aspect of God's power)

However, these are theories and no one has pointed to any Vedic scriptures* or any Sikh writings that may tell more about it. Most of the people have told something they heard...

*= I mentioned Vedic, as most of the above thoughts bring in Shiv, and therefore it is relevant to hear what those scriptures say about it.

If we take Amandeep Singh ji's word, Aad-Chand theory is well documented through photographs and perhaps also shivait writings (?).

Suraaj & Chanda Vanse thought is very interesting. Fits will into the tyarr-bar-tyarr aspect of the Khalsa ideology.

Then again Miri-Piri thought is perhaps even better, as there is no connection to Shivji, and the problem with his shivlings doesn't arise. (lol)

Shiv-Saroop thought is kind of mixture of Aad-Chand and S/C Vanse theories.

So, is o

nly one theory right, or are they all related to each other and just pointed to different aspects of the same beauty. (not so strange that people like me get confused)

Is it possible to give the Chand-tora an accepted 'spiritual meaning' according to Gurmat, so we can drop the "sexual" or "idolistic" meanings?

I hope that someone gives some better explanations, that sorts out the confusion.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Amandeep Ji, if you do not mind, would you be able to provide us with this evidence about the Aad Chand being a Shiva symbol?

[V]

Seriously agree with ms514 veer ji

A lot of claim have been made but, No evidence at all has been posted that the chand has ANYTHING to do with SHIVA,

Having looked at many Shiva idols, never seen the chand ANYWHERE

So can someone please provide hardcore reference to this :wub:

bhull chukk maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Gurbar Akaal]

chand doesnt get any clearer then this <_<

[Guest Sony]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I asked a friend who was wearing one and he told me the same thing that it was kinda "ripped off" from Shiva's stuff, that it does represent the moon because he had powers at night or something. But along with that, if u wear that symbol, then the sword you have to carry has a round thing on the handle and this is supposed to symbolize the sun. Therefore indicating that a Singh not only has the fighting power at night but by day aswell. or something like that. :T: neway he wears it cus he thinks it looks cool :nihungsmile:

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[amandeep]

Thanks for posting that image - its a pretty good example - I was unsure how to post pics otherwsie Iwould have done the same. Virtually all images of Shiv show the Chand Symbol. More critically you will also see the trishul associated directly with Shiva. The Trishul is essentially a chand with a shivling in the centre that has become a trident.

In the image that you showed you will also note that eminating from the top of Shiv's hair is a single "cosmic" strand of hair which becomes the River Ganges (Ganga) - mythological explanation. This piece of Shiv symbolism is also repeated in the Akali Nihang tradition with the Farla that is bestowed upon the Akali Sikhs of the Nihang order. In recieving (and wearing) a Farla the Akali become Maha Kaal and directly mimics Shiva mythology. THe Chand Tora/ Add Chand is simply an extension of that very same mythological root. THe picture you put up is a really excellent example.

BUddha Dal philosophy is pretty clear on the link between their own symbolism and the Shiv Saroop. This is not a recent innovation and not a particularly contentious point in Buddha Dal thought.

This contention that the Add chand refers to fighting night and day is pretty non sensical becuase there is no depiction of the Sun. I remeber many years ago when the 3HO people started debating (internally) about the Add Chand symbol. THey too were shocked at its ostensible "Hindu" origins and I heard one of the most implorable suggestions that the Chand wasnt a chand but was in fact the "swishing" of a khanda throught the air ! well that how they reconciled it - and I still see 3HOers wearing it

One of the mosre honest opinions on tshi topic has been : "he wear

s it becuase it looks cool" - that pretty well sums it up really !

[Deep Singh]

Amandeep Ji,

Let us assume that chand is the Shivait symbol.

I think most of us can accept that certain groups (Nihangs..) have used Chand. Also that modern people use it to either look like Nihangs (or perhaps they also want to look like Shivji). These things are all fine and good for me, as people have done things that are wrong (as per Gurmat). And this means they haven't understood Gurmat. (or that they have understood Gurmat, and i haven't...not even its core principles)

BUT, my problem arises here: Can it be documented that Guru Gobind Singh Ji brought the Chand symbol into Khalsa Banaa??

If so, or if they themself wore it, then i surely have a problem. If my whole mind setup had been sanatani, ie that Sikhism is the 'true form of old Vedic belief' and there is a continuity, i would have accepted it.

But as i believe that Gurmat is a different path, then why would Guru ji give "vedic" symbols to their Khalsa? that is i think the problem....

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Alright, so I did a little of my own research on this topic. First of all, the Nihang Aadh Chand consists of a Khanda with a Chand that encompasses it. For reference:

Now, there are a few symbols associated with Shiva. I will attempt to use the picture posted below to illustrate the various symbols that Shiva presents with that relate to the topic:

First, as Gurbar Akaal Sahib has posted is the Chand. Please note the Chand in Shiva's hair. Shiva is shown to wear the Chand (the crescent symbol) in many of his depictions such as the one above. However, that Chand never has the Khanda in it. It is always a Chand alone, not with a Khanda running through it.

The Khanda is being equated with the Shivling in the posts. However, the common depiction of the Shivling is a rounded over stone in black (same as the idol sitting next to Shiva with the trident symbol painted on it). This is in sharp contrast to the Khanda, which has obvious sharp lines and a point.

The last and most similar symbolism to the Nihang Aad Chand present on Shiva is the trident. The trident does indeed have three prongs, much like the Nihang Chand. However, note the subtle differences. The trident's outer prongs bend outward almost in an "S" configuration. The central prong is not the shape of a Khanda, but that of a spearhead (any artist wishing to depict a Khanda would know the difference between a spearhead and the sha

pe of a Khanda).

Now, I am not claiming to be some expert on the issue, but Daas spent 2 hours looking through various sites on the imagery of Shiva and the above image is typical of Shiva symbolism. Nowhere was I able to find any depictions of Shiva with an Aad Chand similar to the Akali Nihangs (barring a certain Vidiya site that I cannot reference). So, I remain skeptical with the information thus provided so far.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

[Deep Singh]

MS514 Ji's post had these points:

1. That Aad-Chand is not = Trishul

2. Khanda is not = Shivling

But,

3. The Chand in Aad-Chand = Chand of Shivji

But Khanda is, according to Bhai Kahn Singh's Kosh, still from Vedic mythology. Perhaps not the spear in the trishul of Shivji.

So even seperatly: Chand is of Shivji. And Khanda is from Vedic writings that are also related to Shivji.

Still equally confused.

I think it can be accepted that both Chand and Khanda are from puratan mythologies, but shivling meaning can never be in accordance with Gurmat!

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Khanda is the oldest Indian sword. So its presence in the Vedic scriptures is not too mysterious. The word Khanda itself derives from the word to destroy. This is the anti-thesis of the Shivling, whose very symbolism represents the creative essence. So there is another roadblock to the Khanda=Shivling theory.