Double standards with Dastaar

[Guest Preet]

I’ve recently been thinking a lot about Kesh and our society (Sikh) viewpoint on it. I came to realise that when a man dons the dastaar and trims, wears modern clothing, drinks, smokes, etc, it is regarded as “normal”. 

However, the weight of responsibility to present the best “Sikhi” role model is shoved and expected of females whenever they choose to don a dastaar. There have been many young Sikni Youtubers with Dastaars that have been massively shamed for wearing jeans etc. 

Why the double standards? Why is it that the Sikh community has become so obsessed with constricting our sisters whilst our brothers get to do whatever they want. 

This is deterring our sisters from actually exploring Sikhi. This cut-throat, “do it this way or don’t try at all” approach is turning youth away from Sikhi. Why have we lost patience and seek to encourage rather than put down our own Sikhs? 

In a bid to be fanatics, or to simply be “right”, we are putting off the youth from Sikhi. 

What are your thoughts?

[Amit12]

6 hours ago, Guest Preet said:

I’ve recently been thinking a lot about Kesh and our society (Sikh) viewpoint on it. I came to realise that when a man dons the dastaar and trims, wears modern clothing, drinks, smokes, etc, it is regarded as “normal”. 

However, the weight of responsibility to present the best “Sikhi” role model is shoved and expected of females whenever they choose to don a dastaar. There have been many young Sikni Youtubers with Dastaars that have been massively shamed for wearing jeans etc. 

Why the double standards? Why is it that the Sikh community has become so obsessed with constricting our sisters whilst our brothers get to do whatever they want. 

This is deterring our sisters from actually exploring Sikhi. This cut-throat, “do it this way or don’t try at all” approach is turning youth away from Sikhi. Why have we lost patience and seek to encourage rather than put down our own Sikhs? 

In a bid to be fanatics, or to simply be “right”, we are putting off the youth from Sikhi. 

What are your thoughts?

Good thread..... I believe in equal opportunities for both.

Let's see what other thinks.

[Guest GuestSingh]

there shouldnt be any double standards - if a male/female wants to wear the dastaar then both have to remember who theyre representing and why.

and many apne have been doing most of those things u mentioned for decades so weve been born into it and had no choice but to accept it and consider it as the norm...plus they treat their turban (slave, boat-shaped one) as more of a symbol of cultural identity as opposed to a dharmic one anyway...

but the recent trend of apnia adopting one is still new and likely considered 'fashionable'...so at least its early enough to inform em and younger apne of any mistakes while on the path and learning before it becomes another accepted and widespread epidemic as with older generations...

imo the problem with apnia feeling the need to wear skin-tight jeans/clothing is they purposely emphasise/exaggerate their features which makes em look weak, insecure and desperate for attention and approval from complete strangers and that image and behaviour aint befitting of a sikh bibi given those whove given kurbaniya for em to be here and have sikhi today nor does it send the right message to younger girls who will look to copy em...some younger ones today do dress more appropriately and respectfully which is good to see and thats what needs to be seen by the non-amritdhari ones who stop feeling the need to impress so they feel inspired, encouraged and more comfortable in their appearance too...cuz theyre all still representing us with a crown on their heads...noticed some girls wear light make-up too which should also be discouraged for the same reasons...

and the same goes for apne who also wear a dastaar and wear tight-shirts/clothing to show off their bodies i.e. muscle or who act gangster, talk with a potty mouth and drive flash, expensive cars - that image and behaviour also aint befitting of singhs...and its embarrassing...

[Guest Learner]

3 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

there shouldnt be any double standards - if a male/female wants to wear the dastaar then both have to remember who theyre representing and why.

and many apne have been doing most of those things u mentioned for decades so weve been born into it and had no choice but to accept it and consider it as the norm...plus they treat their turban (slave, boat-shaped one) as more of a symbol of cultural identity as opposed to a dharmic one anyway...

but the recent trend of apnia adopting one is still new and likely considered 'fashionable'...so at least its early enough to inform em and younger apne of any mistakes while on the path and learning before it becomes another accepted and widespread epidemic as with older generations...

imo the problem with apnia feeling the need to wear skin-tight jeans/clothing is they purposely emphasise/exaggerate their features which makes em look weak, insecure and desperate for attention and approval from complete strangers and that image and behaviour aint befitting of a sikh bibi given the bibia whove given kurbaniya for em to be here and have sikhi today nor does it send the right message to younger girls who will look to copy em...some younger bibian today do dress more appropriately and respectfully which is good to see and thats what needs to be seen by the non-amritdhari ones who stop feeling the need to impress so they feel inspired, encouraged and more comfortable in their appearance too...cuz theyre all still representing us with a crown on their heads...noticed some girls wear light make-up too which should also be discouraged for the same reasons...

and the same goes for apne who also wear a dastaar and wear tight-shirts/clothing to show off their bodies i.e. muscle or who act gangster, talk with a potty mouth and drive flash, expensive cars - that image and behaviour also aint befitting of singhs...and its embarrassing...

GuestSingh, interesting insight. 

From what you have said, I’m assuming that before one chooses to wear a dastaar, one should forsake (or at least try to) vices, outward appearance, etc.

If so, what about Sikhs that have maintained their kesh and worn dastaars from a young age...wouldn’t it feel restrictive in the sense that there is no room for mistakes? 

Additionally, some bibians actually find fashion and makeup as a form of art or self expression and not for attention. If we’re speaking about attention, wearing the dastaar itself brings about more attention, albeit a different type of attention. 

Bhul chuk maaf if I’ve said anything wrong. Trying to learn and understand better. 

 

 

 

[puzzled]

I think singhs gets a lot more flack then women do. I think it's because singhs are the face of sikhi, when you think if Sikhism you think of a man with pagh and dhari, so when one goes wrong everyone rips into him, just look at this site.  Your a woman so you probably don't notice. 

I have seen videos on YouTube of singhs doing something wrong and then getting beaten the crap out of with canes and getting badly sworn at. 

Women only recently have started wearing dastars so people still trying to figure out what's acceptable and what's not. In the old days it was chunni and they wore salwar kameej 

[Guest guest]

you seem to being saying we should lower the expectations for women, instead of hiring them for men.

men should not be doing these things if they are keshdari.

[Guest GuestSingh]

17 hours ago, Guest Learner said:

GuestSingh, interesting insight. 

From what you have said, I’m assuming that before one chooses to wear a dastaar, one should forsake (or at least try to) vices, outward appearance, etc.

If so, what about Sikhs that have maintained their kesh and worn dastaars from a young age...wouldn’t it feel restrictive in the sense that there is no room for mistakes? 

Additionally, some bibians actually find fashion and makeup as a form of art or self expression and not for attention. If we’re speaking about attention, wearing the dastaar itself brings about more attention, albeit a different type of attention. 

Bhul chuk maaf if I’ve said anything wrong. Trying to learn and understand better. 

 

 

 

if some apnia wanna wear make up and follow fashion thats up to them...but my feelings are the moment we decide to wear the dastaar is the moment we 'pledge allegiance' to guruji to at least promise to 'portray' their image of a sikh in a unique but positive manner e.g being strong not weak...so detachment from material i.e. makeup and fashion should be the aim since they have no relevance or importance in sikhi anyway nor do they serve as useful 'tools/techniques' for any kind of spiritual pursuit but more a hindrance/barriers that only keep apnia in a state of duality - and its this false illusion of 'enjoying the best of both worlds...cuz we can?' aint gonna end well...

nowhere near perfect and full of faults myself but at least when in public theres some sense of duty/obligation to represent it that avoids drawing unnecessary attention and judgement on our community - but thats what make-up seems to do imo...it seems to cast doubt over their courage to be comfortable enough in their own skin/natural appearance but also how 'serious/genuine' they are about sikhi - the idea of 'identifying/belonging to something' is understandable and empathised but if thats the only reason with no interest in actually pursuing spiritual enlightenment then thats no good to any of us.

and u make a fair point about kids and potential suppression...imo thats ultimately gonna come down to the parents own practice/views of sikhi and their own method of upbringing and discretion but also the kids own personality, influences from family/friends/public and experiences etc. - lots of variables there and law of nature would suggest mistakes are gonna happen but at least finding the right balance between freedom and discipline could at least some limit the number and severity of em?

[Guest guest]

On 2/10/2019 at 10:33 AM, Guest Learner said:

If so, what about Sikhs that have maintained their kesh and worn dastaars from a young age...wouldn’t it feel restrictive in the sense that there is no room for mistakes? 

Additionally, some bibians actually find fashion and makeup as a form of art or self expression and not for attention.

you imply that making mistakes would be a good thing.  surely it would be a blessing to avoid/ be steered off mistakes?

art or expression for who or what and what purpose?  

both male and female sikhs try and have 'best of both worlds'- try and have dastaar and be 'trendy'- its misguided

[MisterrSingh]

On 2/9/2019 at 7:05 PM, Guest Preet said:

I’ve recently been thinking a lot about Kesh and our society (Sikh) viewpoint on it. I came to realise that when a man dons the dastaar and trims, wears modern clothing, drinks, smokes, etc, it is regarded as “normal”. 

However, the weight of responsibility to present the best “Sikhi” role model is shoved and expected of females whenever they choose to don a dastaar. There have been many young Sikni Youtubers with Dastaars that have been massively shamed for wearing jeans etc. 

Why the double standards? Why is it that the Sikh community has become so obsessed with constricting our sisters whilst our brothers get to do whatever they want. 

This is deterring our sisters from actually exploring Sikhi. This cut-throat, “do it this way or don’t try at all” approach is turning youth away from Sikhi. Why have we lost patience and seek to encourage rather than put down our own Sikhs? 

In a bid to be fanatics, or to simply be “right”, we are putting off the youth from Sikhi. 

What are your thoughts?

There's a few false equivalences being presented, but I think I understand where OP is coming from.

- I came to realise that when a man dons the dastaar and trims, wears modern clothing, drinks, smokes, etc, it is regarded as “normal”. However, the weight of responsibility to present the best “Sikhi” role model is shoved and expected of females whenever they choose to don a dastaar. There have been many young Sikni Youtubers with Dastaars that have been massively shamed for wearing jeans etc. 

I don't think many people of our background would seriously point to a male with a turban and trimmed beard (who drinks and smokes), and think, "Yes, he's doing Sikhi absolutely correctly. He's a role model." Whereas there's a reasonable assumption that a female who wears the dastaar -- which is of the gol variety -- does so as a commitment to a spiritual path she's apparently decided to follow of her own volition. The turban was an item of fashion, in a social sense, before it was charged with religious symbolism. If the guy drinking and smoking decides to wear a turban he's doing so without any religious inclination. Did Sikh women in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th... centuries (who weren't baptised post-1699) wear turbans on a day-to-day basis?

Briefly, what I think is happening is this: some Sikh girls in the West are looking across at hijabis with their makeup tutorials, their vlogs, and whatever else they do on YouTube, and are thinking, "I want a bit of that action but from a Sikh perspective. But, damn it, if I wear a gol dastaar there's going to be the assumption that I'm religious, whereas I'm really not but I just want to wear it for various non-religious reasons. I know full well that turbanned Sikh males with trimmed beards aren't following the religion to the letter, so what I'll do is play the victim and bleat about double standards to make it seem like Sikh girls are being oppressed by a sexist religious patriarchy."

Have the courage and the integrity to stand up for what you want to do, without looking for the safety net of an "oppressor" to blame for any potential backlash or criticism heading your way. Impressions, long-held assumptions, and ideas -- whether true or inaccurate -- can't be modified overnight. If you don't want the female dastaar to imply exclusively religious connotations, then wear one and do whatever it is you want to do, lol. Eventually people will realise, like they have with the hijab, that it's just an item of clothing that bears no relevance to the mindset of its wearer.

 

[californiasardar1]

On 2/9/2019 at 8:05 PM, Guest Preet said:

I’ve recently been thinking a lot about Kesh and our society (Sikh) viewpoint on it. I came to realise that when a man dons the dastaar and trims, wears modern clothing, drinks, smokes, etc, it is regarded as “normal”. 

However, the weight of responsibility to present the best “Sikhi” role model is shoved and expected of females whenever they choose to don a dastaar. There have been many young Sikni Youtubers with Dastaars that have been massively shamed for wearing jeans etc. 

Why the double standards? Why is it that the Sikh community has become so obsessed with constricting our sisters whilst our brothers get to do whatever they want. 

This is deterring our sisters from actually exploring Sikhi. This cut-throat, “do it this way or don’t try at all” approach is turning youth away from Sikhi. Why have we lost patience and seek to encourage rather than put down our own Sikhs? 

In a bid to be fanatics, or to simply be “right”, we are putting off the youth from Sikhi. 

What are your thoughts?

 

This double standard exists because, for generations, it was the norm for men to wear dastars whether they were religious or not.  Drinking has always been common among "Sikhs", even when virtually 100% of the men were Singhs.  It only relatively recently that "clean shaven Sikhs" have existed in large numbers.  So you still have a decent amount of men who wear dastars and are not particularly religious. 

 

Similarly, it was the norm for women NOT to wear dastars, whether they were religious or not.