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ManSinha

Is Sikhi harsh on atheists or is it just my interpretation

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WJKK WJKF 

I have been doing some comparative reading across some of the major religions - and other than Hindu Yogic schools (get to that in a moment) - Sikhi alone stands unique in its tolerance and acceptance and indeed protection for any and all to have religious freedom. While historically there is the example of  Guru Tegh Bahadur - ji, the modern example is that of the Sikh Coalition fighting alongside jews and others that are being oppressed. 

The Gurbani from "Koi bol-ay ram ram" to "Jineh toh-ay dhiya-yo tineh" also backs this up with no two ways about it. 

But somehow those who choose not to believe in the Divine at all - are criticized somewhat harshly. "Jo sir saa-ee na niv-ae so sir kup utaar"

In the Hindu Samkhya school of thought - there is emphasis on praman shaabad and anu-maan - there is a lot of appealing to reason and inference and the premise of Devta or even Ishta Devta is not given a lot of importance. In fact some of those from outside that have studied it - say that it gets as close to an atheist belief as one can. 

I was just wondering if any one from the saadh sangat had insight. 

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53 minutes ago, ManSinha said:

I was just wondering if any one from the saadh sangat had insight. 

Behead those who don't believe in God!!!

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3 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Behead those who don't believe in God!!!

it's more subtle than that it means their head/life is made worthless by their actions , therefore what is its value? Might as well end the wasted janam , this theme repeats so many times in Gurbani . Most point out Manmukh janam gavaaia

the simplest way to be saved is to fall at Guru ji's charan but if you cannot even that simple action because of your haumai as you openly reject Guru ji's love/authority/help there is no point to this janam

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43 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

it's more subtle than that it means their head/life is made worthless by their actions , therefore what is its value? Might as well end the wasted janam , this theme repeats so many times in Gurbani . Most point out Manmukh janam gavaaia

the simplest way to be saved is to fall at Guru ji's charan but if you cannot even that simple action because of your haumai as you openly reject Guru ji's love/authority/help there is no point to this janam

I got that - but the way I understand it - Guru Sahib teaches that there is no hell or heaven - only coming back as different life forms or merging into the One (moksh or mukti). I believe there is in Bhai Gurdas Varan - "Manas janam amol hai - hoi amol saadh sang paay-io" so the life especially of the human "is dehi ko simra-ee dev; so dehi bhaj har kee sev; bhajo gobind bhool mat jao, manas janam ka ehi laah-o" is the ideal one to remember Waheguru and associate with other Gurmukhs 

 

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As far as my understanding goes of Sikhism , esp the purely SGGS approach to it , yes seemingly there're words which ridicule 'doubters' ("saakats" as per gurbani) . But then again I rely on translations which translate 'saakat' to 'faithless cynic' . In some lines, it even suggests to not befriend such people. But thats just because not to get affected by their company. 

The passage you're talking about "Jo sir saa-ee na niv-ae so sir kup utaar" is from Bhagat Farid ji's baani where he's actually reprimanding his own self for not being a firm observant believer who prays all 5 times a day. Spiritual Sufis often worked on themselves , rather than condemning others.

Lastly , you also have to understand Gurmat heavily emphasizes on divine grace or 'nadar' . If its his nadar, then he even makes religious scholars out of idiots and give them sublime essence of his name, else nothing is possible.

But despair not. Gurbani says god doesn't let even hard work as little as a 'til seed' to go waste. 

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I have to say this , esp since the thread is befitting to my below reply.

"Jaananhaar prabhu parbeen. Baahar bhekh na kahu bheen" ~ lines from Sukhmani Sahib

(God is expert in knowing whats inside you. He's not impressed by your external garbs).

It is not hard to notice religious people , men in long religious robes who commit wrongs. Thats just pakhand. I have seen a fair share of 'amritdharis' as well who're quite wicked people (Disclaimer : not badmouthing Amritdhari bros in general)

MOST people in ALL religions , esp Sikhism fail to realize that the real game is NOT outside, its INSIDE ! Its all there in gurbani for anyone to read and contemplate on. Its a treasure we sleep on and cry poor without realizing its value. 

 

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I happen to have frequent debates with people from the abrahamic faiths - and have had discussions with the missionaries who show up outside my door. Most of them leave after taking one look at me. But others like to tell me how they can "save" me - in contrast we live by -  "Soch kar-ae dinas ar raat, mun ki ma-ael na tan tay jaat" - so I agree with you - it is about looking inward and to the self and getting it in tune with the lord as much as possible "Nanak leen bhai-yo gobind siyo jio paani sang paani"

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1 hour ago, ManSinha said:

I happen to have frequent debates with people from the abrahamic faiths - and have had discussions with the missionaries who show up outside my door. Most of them leave after taking one look at me. But others like to tell me how they can "save" me - in contrast we live by -  "Soch kar-ae dinas ar raat, mun ki ma-ael na tan tay jaat" - so I agree with you - it is about looking inward and to the self and getting it in tune with the lord as much as possible "Nanak leen bhai-yo gobind siyo jio paani sang paani"

Abrahamics are an altogether different philosophy. Their concept of god is shallow, their goal is just till jannah heaven. Short sighted

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2 hours ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

Abrahamics are an altogether different philosophy. Their concept of god is shallow, their goal is just till jannah heaven. Short sighted

They try to 'save' you because in their belief systems(believers a whole different subject) they are promised heaven and all types of snazzy worldly possessions,  if they convert people.

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