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Were western Sikhs better of in Punjab? Instead of UK/Abroad


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As a typical UK born Punjabi,  I along with many others, whose ancestors came from the Punjab, (Amritsar in my case) or other parts migrated to the Britain back in the early 50's and 60's. We along with many other Sikh communities and Indians in general from back home, came over for a better life and opportunities. We western born British Sikhs are considered ' the lucky ones'.  The ones that escaped the harsh life of India at the time and were able to improve our welfare and fortunes by being able to have the means to get a ship and ticket to the so-called promised land. Think about it, out of millions of Punjabis, our ancestors where select few who managed to get here while so many others just like us failed in their endeavour to reach these shores. But are we really that lucky or blessed to have been the tiny minority of Punjabis and Indians who made it to the UK from India, our home country? Out of the millions of Sikhs who tried and desperately wanted to come over but could not for some reason or the other. 

However, I sometimes wonder if we would have been better off if we actually stayed in India and did not migrate to the UK. Even though we are considered the lucky ones who managed to get to the west and win the golden ticket.

Are we truly accepted here and feel this is our true home? Our roots, religion, culture, customs and traditions, language you name it comes from India (Punjab) We are just a tiny minority and percentage out of billions of brown people to be here. When I go back to India. I really feel that I belong there more and get this feeling that this is my country and roots and not the same feeling while in the UK.

Being someone who has travelled back to India on a number of occasions and been all over extensively from North to South. I have seen that Indians/Punjabis back home seem to be happier and more content bunch then us Western Punjabis who are perceived to be in a better country. In fact people back home have become even wealthier then us and prospered more. In terms of family life, wealth ect.

Good things I have seen back home in terms of lifestyle/happiness/career ect compared to UK Punjabis.

Back home people are a more close-knit and caring community. They have a good sense of togetherness due to living with people of the same faith, culture and values as them. Everyone knows each other and helps one another. Everyone mixes more with their relatives and have better family relations in the community. Which is a stark difference to the UK state of affairs. Where people don’t see their own family due to in fighting and have poor relations. Sikhs in the west are increasingly growing up in broken homes due to very high divorce rates in the west. While back home divorce is very low compared to UK. Yes it may not be perfect but it feels more like home then the UK.

Back home they live in communities and areas that are 90% plus Sikh and hence have opportunity to have friends/Sangat, work colleagues of the same religion. Whereas we live in areas and communities where we are small minority and heavily outnumbered by other religions and races. Many of us live in white dominated or muslim populated areas.

I actually had this pointed out by a relative from india. Who said he could not believe how many Muslims where in the UK and why I was living in these areas heavily populated by them. Whereas he lived in nearly 90% Plus Sikh area back home.

Going back to the good things back in Punjab. They have beautiful Gurdwaras and mandirs on their door step, un paralleled natural beauty such as lush greenery, mountains and landscape. They live in a huge and varied country with many different communities living side by side all of which are similar to us.

To summaries what is better back home the in the UK

Better family relations and community spirit. As opposed to the UK where families have broken down and divorce rate is very high. So many broken families. Kids growing up without both parents in the same household.

They live in Sikh dominated areas, nagar kirtans and sikh events on their door step. More spiritual and blissful place to be in touch with our faith and roots. I have noticed sikhs in punjab are more united the in the UK.

Negatives of living in the UK

Basically, the opposite of Punjab. No community spirits. Lack of family, society cohesion and togetherness. Many people live isolated away from sangats.

High crime rates. Lack of acceptance, many people do not like Asians. In fact multi culturalism has not worked in Britain at all. Everyone is a stranger to each other and there is a lack of social cohesion amongst the different races and religions of Britian. Most people live in streets where they don’t know their neighbours and are complete strangers. Which is completely different back home where everyone is close knit and ready to help their neigbours ect.

Back in India, Sikhs, hindus Jains, Buddhists all live side by side in peace in a multi faith society without any issues.UK has dull, grey and cold climates. Houses and roads all look the same and grim. Whereas back home there are beautiful villages Ie beautiful colourful architecture homes.

We face racism and discrimination in the work place. Have to work under racist managers and colleagues. Be it in university’s and work places.Anyone else feel we would have been better off where we was?

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42 minutes ago, Dsinghdp said:

It’s too late for that now. I’m staying in UK.

Punjab is best to go from October to March. Then it gets too hot.

And the mosquitoes. 

I actually felt like this when I was younger. in fact hated the thought of living in India. Due to heat, dusty roads, mosquitos ect.. but it's alot different now then it was back then. 

India has dramatically changed in the last 15 - 20 years or so. Go to big cities like Mumbai, bangalore ect, dehli.They have become so modernised and now have everything. Luxury cars, houses, transport.  If you have the money you can get anything you want there. 

It's becoming a superpower. There's so much wealth and prosperity. Obviously it still has poor parts and there is great wealth disparity. 

Major improvements I've seen.

Better roads, cars, trains, transports. 

Education, lesuire facilities.

Better hotels, accomodation.

Big modern shopping centres, malls complexes. 

Better and cutting edge hospitals.It's is not the place that our ancestors left in the 50's and 60's. Back then there was nothing in India. 

 

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But it depends on the person I suppose. many UK born Sikhs are so westernised that they have completely lost touch with their faith and roots that they would dread to leave the UK and hate Punjab and the country of their ancestors. 

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Yes, they were better off in rural Punjab ‘cos they fitted in better there. They become totally confused after they migrated overseas. They lost their Sikh values, Sikh customs and Sikh religion. They don’t follow any of these properly anymore, ‘cos they are totally lost and confused about their identity.  Their lives are full of mishmash  rubbish, neither here nor there, neither Sikhs nor anything else! Confused lot. 

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26 minutes ago, CHaamCHrick said:

Yes, they were better off in rural Punjab ‘cos they fitted in better there. They become totally confused after they migrated overseas. They list their Sikh values, Sikh customs and Sikh religion. They don’t follow any of these properly anymore, ‘cos they are totally lost and confused about their identity.  Their lives are full of mishmash  rubbish, neither here nor there, neither Sikhs nor anything else! Confused lot.

To be honest I don't think is quite right. Punjab and whole of India was a complete sh1t hole back in the 50's to 90's. Hence Sikhs did well to migrate to a better land that offered more opportunity ect. 

The thing is. Punjab and some parts of India now are thriving. They are no longer the places they once were when our ancestors left. 

They are now more attractive places to live. Would you not like to live in a Sikh majority area?

Gurdwaras and historical places on your doorstep and many more positives. 

Or do you enjoy cold, dull boring Britain. That is just a tiny little crime ridden country full of goreh. 

 

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1 hour ago, CHaamCHrick said:

Why  are the men in turbans beating a poor helpless woman with a stick then? They are awful.

First of all men in turbans can do far worse the beating a woman with a stick. 

Just because you have a turban on. That does not make your sh1t smell of lavender. 

This topic is about western Sikhs and desi Sikhs and which have it better. While our lot back in India. Ie Mumbai, Delhi, punjab ect live in peacefull Sikh areas. We live in Islamic areas in the UK. 

Which have it best? When I visit Punjab and other Sikh areas of India. I feel more at home then the UK. Where I am a minority. 

 

 

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I used to have the same perception about moving back to Punjab however when other relatives have done it or gone for a few months there are harsh realities which they struggled to.cope with. What career opportunities are better?

Firstly you have to think about it from a historical perspective, had your family stayed would they have survived the extra judicial killings of the Punjab Police and widespread murder? I am presuming your family has some keshdhari Sikhs? My Thaya and Chacha were both taken from thier homes in the early 90s and we still dont know what happened to them. Events like that could easily happen again and then you will have to contend with widespread State racism and discrimination.

However, moving back to Punjab today as it is you have to put yourself in the position of a citizen of Punjab. God forbidden you need to get married or do anything that needs officially being registering etc... you will need to become comfortable with paying back handers, slow govt bureaucracy and endless paperwork.

I am also presuming you would want to go college/uni or get a job? Well if you dont meet the caste quotas you have no chance. The "upper castes" will probably never get accepted for govt jobs etc. The caste system is deeply embedded in Hindu India. For private jobs a requisite seems to be speak fluent Hindi and dont even think about having a dhumulla or open beard (if your male).

Then you have the chances of a riot/govt shut down or some other effigy burning mob that happen regularly in urban India (that's if you were thinking of opening a business). Along with that comes with political turmoil every so often that hit the cities more, whether that is Ram Raheem supporters rioting or when the Radboswamis get agitated or because some young girl got raped. Living in a growing Hindu Fascist state is not going to be easy and it will hit rural Sikhs.

You have to also consider issues such as rape, high death rate on Punjab roads in comparison to UK, drug abuse and bringing your family up in this environment.

My family in India avoid any roads after 7pm as after dark there is a high possibility of fatalities. Also in rural areas of Punjab the level of pollution is much higher than urban areas in the UK. 

Your spending power will be less should you ever wish to move abroad again or visit family.

Working in June/July heat is tough, even in an office job or farming. If your intention is rural farming  if you are planning to work then most Punjabis need to realise the water table in Punjab is significantly decreasing year on year...  and the Indian Govt will always divert water to Delhi/Haryana. I have seen predictions of the agricultural industries in Punjab starting to fail within 20/30 years.

For me going to Punjab on a Holiday and living and working there is very different! Most rural Sikh Punjabis use cheap labour from Bihar to do the heavy lifting with agricultural work. Personally I'm always surprised to see how idle they are in my family.

I do agree Punjab has significantly changed over the past 5 years even, but ultimately it's still full of corruption, bureaucracy and an illiberal democracy governed by Hindu Nationalists. It's too volatile of a place to emigrate too.

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On 4/20/2020 at 4:21 AM, singh1986 said:

I used to have the same perception about moving back to Punjab however when other relatives have done it or gone for a few months there are harsh realities which they struggled to.cope with. What career opportunities are better?

Firstly you have to think about it from a historical perspective, had your family stayed would they have survived the extra judicial killings of the Punjab Police and widespread murder? I am presuming your family has some keshdhari Sikhs? My Thaya and Chacha were both taken from thier homes in the early 90s and we still dont know what happened to them. Events like that could easily happen again and then you will have to contend with widespread State racism and discrimination.

However, moving back to Punjab today as it is you have to put yourself in the position of a citizen of Punjab. God forbidden you need to get married or do anything that needs officially being registering etc... you will need to become comfortable with paying back handers, slow govt bureaucracy and endless paperwork.

I am also presuming you would want to go college/uni or get a job? Well if you dont meet the caste quotas you have no chance. The "upper castes" will probably never get accepted for govt jobs etc. The caste system is deeply embedded in Hindu India. For private jobs a requisite seems to be speak fluent Hindi and dont even think about having a dhumulla or open beard (if your male).

Then you have the chances of a riot/govt shut down or some other effigy burning mob that happen regularly in urban India (that's if you were thinking of opening a business). Along with that comes with political turmoil every so often that hit the cities more, whether that is Ram Raheem supporters rioting or when the Radboswamis get agitated or because some young girl got raped. Living in a growing Hindu Fascist state is not going to be easy and it will hit rural Sikhs.

You have to also consider issues such as rape, high death rate on Punjab roads in comparison to UK, drug abuse and bringing your family up in this environment.

My family in India avoid any roads after 7pm as after dark there is a high possibility of fatalities. Also in rural areas of Punjab the level of pollution is much higher than urban areas in the UK. 

Your spending power will be less should you ever wish to move abroad again or visit family.

Working in June/July heat is tough, even in an office job or farming. If your intention is rural farming  if you are planning to work then most Punjabis need to realise the water table in Punjab is significantly decreasing year on year...  and the Indian Govt will always divert water to Delhi/Haryana. I have seen predictions of the agricultural industries in Punjab starting to fail within 20/30 years.

For me going to Punjab on a Holiday and living and working there is very different! Most rural Sikh Punjabis use cheap labour from Bihar to do the heavy lifting with agricultural work. Personally I'm always surprised to see how idle they are in my family.

I do agree Punjab has significantly changed over the past 5 years even, but ultimately it's still full of corruption, bureaucracy and an illiberal democracy governed by Hindu Nationalists. It's too volatile of a place to emigrate too.

I have already done university studying ect. So that does not apply to me. 

Obviously it's a different matter if we suddenly go now back to India in the present time. As well will face so many obstacles. Uni, job, house, family, finances ect. 

That is why I said ' if we never left in the first place'.

I have many relatives back home who are doing exceptionally well. Many are very wealthy and have businesses and property portfolios. 

One of the biggest things I like. Is seeing my relatives in nearly 100 percent Sikh areas. Also as someone who is very connected to my desi side. I think I would fit in very well back home 

I personally feel more.connected to my faith and roots back home then in the UK. 

 

 

 

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On 4/18/2020 at 6:00 PM, Big_Tera said:

I actually felt like this when I was younger. in fact hated the thought of living in India. Due to heat, dusty roads, mosquitos ect.. but it's alot different now then it was back then. 

India has dramatically changed in the last 15 - 20 years or so. Go to big cities like Mumbai, bangalore ect, dehli.They have become so modernised and now have everything. Luxury cars, houses, transport.  If you have the money you can get anything you want there. 

It's becoming a superpower. There's so much wealth and prosperity. Obviously it still has poor parts and there is great wealth disparity. 

Major improvements I've seen.

Better roads, cars, trains, transports. 

Education, lesuire facilities.

Better hotels, accomodation.

Big modern shopping centres, malls complexes. 

Better and cutting edge hospitals.It's is not the place that our ancestors left in the 50's and 60's. Back then there was nothing in India. 

 

you are talking about cities NOT in Punjab, this crisis has revealed just how ripped off Punjab is , too few schools, colleges of quality, apnay being bullied when trying to sit exams for being khalsa roop . Living in a lawless mess , where the police act on bribe system to bully businesses starting up and demand paise on regular basis (my masi went back and lost thousands trying to set up a gym then a restaurant, she gave up the criminalitiy was too much)  , Entrepreneurs  are punished for innovating , nobody's allowed to change the status quo of depressed and drug addled sikhs , the sewadars who are succeeding in getting sikhi going in such people are picked up and imprisoned falsely. People are traaped in repeated 'pretrial' court appearences , evidence is never produced to show courts for years and decades destroying families of gursikhs . The water and food is poisoned and cancer is a major problem . The hospitals for people who cannot afford private hospitals are places to good to catch something more , underfunded and delapidated.

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On 4/18/2020 at 4:54 PM, Big_Tera said:

As a typical UK born Punjabi,  I along with many others, whose ancestors came from the Punjab, (Amritsar in my case) or other parts migrated to the Britain back in the early 50's and 60's. We along with many other Sikh communities and Indians in general from back home, came over for a better life and opportunities. We western born British Sikhs are considered ' the lucky ones'.  The ones that escaped the harsh life of India at the time and were able to improve our welfare and fortunes by being able to have the means to get a ship and ticket to the so-called promised land. Think about it, out of millions of Punjabis, our ancestors where select few who managed to get here while so many others just like us failed in their endeavour to reach these shores. But are we really that lucky or blessed to have been the tiny minority of Punjabis and Indians who made it to the UK from India, our home country? Out of the millions of Sikhs who tried and desperately wanted to come over but could not for some reason or the other. 

However, I sometimes wonder if we would have been better off if we actually stayed in India and did not migrate to the UK. Even though we are considered the lucky ones who managed to get to the west and win the golden ticket.

Are we truly accepted here and feel this is our true home? Our roots, religion, culture, customs and traditions, language you name it comes from India (Punjab) We are just a tiny minority and percentage out of billions of brown people to be here. When I go back to India. I really feel that I belong there more and get this feeling that this is my country and roots and not the same feeling while in the UK.

Being someone who has travelled back to India on a number of occasions and been all over extensively from North to South. I have seen that Indians/Punjabis back home seem to be happier and more content bunch then us Western Punjabis who are perceived to be in a better country. In fact people back home have become even wealthier then us and prospered more. In terms of family life, wealth ect.

Good things I have seen back home in terms of lifestyle/happiness/career ect compared to UK Punjabis.

Back home people are a more close-knit and caring community. They have a good sense of togetherness due to living with people of the same faith, culture and values as them. Everyone knows each other and helps one another. Everyone mixes more with their relatives and have better family relations in the community. Which is a stark difference to the UK state of affairs. Where people don’t see their own family due to in fighting and have poor relations. Sikhs in the west are increasingly growing up in broken homes due to very high divorce rates in the west. While back home divorce is very low compared to UK. Yes it may not be perfect but it feels more like home then the UK.

Back home they live in communities and areas that are 90% plus Sikh and hence have opportunity to have friends/Sangat, work colleagues of the same religion. Whereas we live in areas and communities where we are small minority and heavily outnumbered by other religions and races. Many of us live in white dominated or muslim populated areas.

I actually had this pointed out by a relative from india. Who said he could not believe how many Muslims where in the UK and why I was living in these areas heavily populated by them. Whereas he lived in nearly 90% Plus Sikh area back home.

Going back to the good things back in Punjab. They have beautiful Gurdwaras and mandirs on their door step, un paralleled natural beauty such as lush greenery, mountains and landscape. They live in a huge and varied country with many different communities living side by side all of which are similar to us.

To summaries what is better back home the in the UK

Better family relations and community spirit. As opposed to the UK where families have broken down and divorce rate is very high. So many broken families. Kids growing up without both parents in the same household.

They live in Sikh dominated areas, nagar kirtans and sikh events on their door step. More spiritual and blissful place to be in touch with our faith and roots. I have noticed sikhs in punjab are more united the in the UK.

Negatives of living in the UK

Basically, the opposite of Punjab. No community spirits. Lack of family, society cohesion and togetherness. Many people live isolated away from sangats.

High crime rates. Lack of acceptance, many people do not like Asians. In fact multi culturalism has not worked in Britain at all. Everyone is a stranger to each other and there is a lack of social cohesion amongst the different races and religions of Britian. Most people live in streets where they don’t know their neighbours and are complete strangers. Which is completely different back home where everyone is close knit and ready to help their neigbours ect.

Back in India, Sikhs, hindus Jains, Buddhists all live side by side in peace in a multi faith society without any issues.UK has dull, grey and cold climates. Houses and roads all look the same and grim. Whereas back home there are beautiful villages Ie beautiful colourful architecture homes.

We face racism and discrimination in the work place. Have to work under racist managers and colleagues. Be it in university’s and work places.Anyone else feel we would have been better off where we was?

Trust me, the entire world wants to move to western countries because it’s incredibly difficult living in those countries. Ask any expat who has worked in a third world country and they’ll tell you the same. Alot of Brits literally have No idea how easy we have it. People are literally screaming out there for a British passport. We are incredibly blessed. 

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