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washing harmandir shaib with milk


Guest gurcharan singh

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Guest gurcharan singh

wgjkkwgjkf I am a very foolish person who is asking this question plz forgive me but I really need to know why is golden temple, Sachkhand harmandir shaib washed with milk, I hope you wise people can help me get an really answer , most people say is it pure, but isn't that an hindu thing, also aothers say its organic but why milk shouldn't they uses the best organic  solutions to learn shiri Darbar shaib.

As far as I'm concerned, I feel the cultural aspect is from the belief that the milk is pure....which can probably related to the fact that the animal that milk is derived from is considered holy in India. but isn't Sikhi against Pakhandi Indian conditions 

I'm in no way Hindu-phobic, but there is absolutely no sense in washing in milk. If it was because water is polluted; is that the case with the sarovar in Darbar Sahib as well? They wash the parkarma with water.. don't they?

There is absolutely no sense in washing it in milk, and there is nothing to substantiate that this is the way things were, just like people refuse allowing bibis to do kirtan in Darbar Sahib because "that's the way they used to do it." Not realising that a lot of these traditions came under the masands. what is the SGPC doing ,why do I feel they are doing everting wrong such as giving saropas to people like Badal, misusing the goalk, mistreating there employs for speaking the truth such as firing them. what is happening 

Again, if purity is the issue - why not use non-chemical based (or chemical based for that matter!) soap - it will clean it a lot better than milk - if that's the issue. That's not the issue.

I know people will get upset at me for saying this... if purity is the reason - why can we not use soap? please someone explain im a very foolish dumb person I have no knoll age but plz someone tell me 

There is no reason to use milk - and no proof that that's the way they did in the "Puratan times." You may quote any baba jees you want, but as far as I'm aware, no rehitnama nor any other ithasic literature mentions milk being required to wash marble or anything else. plz prove me wrong  can someone tell me the reason 

If anything the rehit maryada condemns the belief I kuchi lassi being significance in the chapter on anand karaj, where they reject the use of kuchi lassi in old traditions (like dipping feet in it as it was done.)

I ONLY respresent my own opinion on this issue, and don't represent any organisation, but my support is simply "akli sahib seviye..." to use our common sense, and the Akal Thakhat Maryada.jkdff

I'm very sorry I have ,made many mistakes plz try to forgive me if it possible I am just wanted to know the answer so plz forgive me as 

wgjkkwgf

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I would say that the sgpc Maryada of Sachkhand harmanidr shaib is questionable as im confused why you have to wear a triangle paag to do seva as to do kirtan you cant wear a gol dastaar.  also women doing kirtan is agen sgpc, also how Darbar shaib should inspire Many Sikhs I feel that Sikh tradition kirtan should be promoted form there with tattnti saajs and this is not done as all you see is an harmonium, there once was a time at harmanider shaib when the rabab use to play even the animal would sit an listen, but thanks to sgpc this is a thing of the past, also the grantis have to wear an Pajama they cant were a chola ??????? I hope im wrong plz tell me all these thing iv hear are all false. all I see is that the sgpc are on. a mission to distroy Sikh and are against everything, 

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On 5/11/2020 at 5:11 PM, Guest gurcharan singh said:

wgjkkwgjkf I am a very foolish person who is asking this question plz forgive me but I really need to know why is golden temple, Sachkhand harmandir shaib washed with milk, I hope you wise people can help me get an really answer , most people say is it pure, but isn't that an hindu thing, also aothers say its organic but why milk shouldn't they uses the best organic  solutions to learn shiri Darbar shaib.

As far as I'm concerned, I feel the cultural aspect is from the belief that the milk is pure....which can probably related to the fact that the animal that milk is derived from is considered holy in India. but isn't Sikhi against Pakhandi Indian conditions 

I'm in no way Hindu-phobic, but there is absolutely no sense in washing in milk. If it was because water is polluted; is that the case with the sarovar in Darbar Sahib as well? They wash the parkarma with water.. don't they?

There is absolutely no sense in washing it in milk, and there is nothing to substantiate that this is the way things were, just like people refuse allowing bibis to do kirtan in Darbar Sahib because "that's the way they used to do it." Not realising that a lot of these traditions came under the masands. what is the SGPC doing ,why do I feel they are doing everting wrong such as giving saropas to people like Badal, misusing the goalk, mistreating there employs for speaking the truth such as firing them. what is happening 

Again, if purity is the issue - why not use non-chemical based (or chemical based for that matter!) soap - it will clean it a lot better than milk - if that's the issue. That's not the issue.

I know people will get upset at me for saying this... if purity is the reason - why can we not use soap? please someone explain im a very foolish dumb person I have no knoll age but plz someone tell me 

There is no reason to use milk - and no proof that that's the way they did in the "Puratan times." You may quote any baba jees you want, but as far as I'm aware, no rehitnama nor any other ithasic literature mentions milk being required to wash marble or anything else. plz prove me wrong  can someone tell me the reason 

If anything the rehit maryada condemns the belief I kuchi lassi being significance in the chapter on anand karaj, where they reject the use of kuchi lassi in old traditions (like dipping feet in it as it was done.)

I ONLY respresent my own opinion on this issue, and don't represent any organisation, but my support is simply "akli sahib seviye..." to use our common sense, and the Akal Thakhat Maryada.jkdff

I'm very sorry I have ,made many mistakes plz try to forgive me if it possible I am just wanted to know the answer so plz forgive me as 

wgjkkwgf

I dont think your asking a question. But perhaps having a rant and giving ur view, which is fine to do. You've made clear that you have an issue with use of milk to wash the Harmandir Sahib. You also have an issue with hindu traditions, badal, sgpc and babas. Perhaps your looking to argue with someone who doesnt agree with you. 

Either way, im not saying ur right or wrong, just thanks for sharing your view but doesnt look like anyone could have a constructive conversation with you.

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Guest Brokenheart
On 5/13/2020 at 3:41 AM, Jonny101 said:

Wrote this just a few days ago.covering this topic:

Sadly this had been misrepresentated a lot in our Panth for the last few years mainly by missionaries to the point where many Sikhs have also started believing this.

Firstly, it is not buckets milk but buckets of Kachi Lassi. Kachi Lassi in this case is a small portion of milk(about 20%) mixed with 80% water. The reason this is used since ancient times in India is because it does not damage marble flooring. In fact it gives a soft feel to the marble after applying it. 

The alternative to this is modern chemical based products which can damage the marble long term by corrosion and wearing it out. Besides this these modern chemical based products can also cause cancer and damage the environment. So Kachi Lassi is definitely best suited for this sewa. 

I am disgusted to read that wash the floors of Sachkhand Harmandar sahib Ji with kachi lassi, when in my heart of hearts, I believe that every single floor of every single gurdwaras where I Gurus walked or even placed their Komal and kamal charans on should be washed with milk of the highest quality available and then dried with sangants’ freshly washed and clean kesh, without FAIL! These blessed floors deserve to be polished with our clean kesh each time they are washed! Shocking to see how they do beadbhi of such blessed floors by washing them with kachi lassie. Shame on us the Sikh panth all over the world. Just plain shocked to read about this. May our Gurus forgive us all for showing no love or respect for what they gifted us with, which is Sikhi.

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6 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

Wrote this just a few days ago.covering this topic:

Sadly this had been misrepresentated a lot in our Panth for the last few years mainly by missionaries to the point where many Sikhs have also started believing this.

Firstly, it is not buckets milk but buckets of Kachi Lassi. Kachi Lassi in this case is a small portion of milk(about 20%) mixed with 80% water. The reason this is used since ancient times in India is because it does not damage marble flooring. In fact it gives a soft feel to the marble after applying it. 

The alternative to this is modern chemical based products which can damage the marble long term by corrosion and wearing it out. Besides this these modern chemical based products can also cause cancer and damage the environment. So Kachi Lassi is definitely best suited for this sewa. 

Thank you for explaining bhai sahib !! 

Those who are reading, please be aware that this is one of the major propaganda that anti-sikh forces are playing to break away sikhs from Saachand sri darbar sahib. Abdali mughal tried it, 1984 tried it and now various outfits in the shape of harnek neki of new zealand, reporter makhu, dhadri gang and the whole missionary group are working day and night to remove the importance of sikh dharam aaasthaan. 

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20 hours ago, S1ngh said:

Thank you for explaining bhai sahib !! 

Those who are reading, please be aware that this is one of the major propaganda that anti-sikh forces are playing to break away sikhs from Saachand sri darbar sahib. Abdali mughal tried it, 1984 tried it and now various outfits in the shape of harnek neki of new zealand, reporter makhu, dhadri gang and the whole missionary group are working day and night to remove the importance of sikh dharam aaasthaan. 

I think they don't want to even listen. There is a big heretic missionary based in Germany who is a Dhandri/Neki chela. He spreads a lot of lies and half-truths including this lie of "buckets of milk being used to wash Sri Darbar Sahib". When I confronted him with facts instead of admitting his mistake like a man he simply banned me on his Facebook and continued with his lies and misguiding others.

These atheist Sikhs want money to be spent on anything except for on a Gurdwara. They don't think of the poor when they spend money on themselves by buying an expensive smart phone or a car or buying a nice house for themselves and their family to live in or brand-name clothing. It is only a Gurdwara they have a problem with.

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6 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

They don't think of the poor when they spend money on themselves by buying an expensive smart phone or a car or buying a nice house for themselves and their family to live in or brand-name clothing. It is only a Gurdwara they have a problem with

So true 

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Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh
On 5/13/2020 at 11:41 AM, Jonny101 said:

Wrote this just a few days ago.covering this topic:

Sadly this had been misrepresentated a lot in our Panth for the last few years mainly by missionaries to the point where many Sikhs have also started believing this.

Firstly, it is not buckets milk but buckets of Kachi Lassi. Kachi Lassi in this case is a small portion of milk(about 20%) mixed with 80% water. The reason this is used since ancient times in India is because it does not damage marble flooring. In fact it gives a soft feel to the marble after applying it. 

The alternative to this is modern chemical based products which can damage the marble long term by corrosion and wearing it out. Besides this these modern chemical based products can also cause cancer and damage the environment. So Kachi Lassi is definitely best suited for this sewa. 

What the hell are you on about ?  The residues left behind after cleaning with milk are acidic. Those residues attract dirt and encourage mould growth. Some of those marble floors we see in historic Sikh Gurdwaras in India are only 50 years old but they look like they are 500 years old because of the ignorant ways they have been cleaned....i.e. with milk. That ignorance is perpetuated by ignorant people like you preaching to those even more ignorant than you on the internet.

But....if logic and science isn't your thing and you prefer nature: You should know that waheguru made that milk for the cow's baby. Not so we could steal it from the mother and wash floors with it.

p.s. I wrote a few essays on the marble floors in Sikh Gurdwaras in my 'Sikh architecture' thread last year :

 

 

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On 5/13/2020 at 6:35 PM, Jonny101 said:

These atheist Sikhs want money to be spent on anything except for on a Gurdwara. They don't think of the poor when they spend money on themselves by buying an expensive smart phone or a car or buying a nice house for themselves and their family to live in or brand-name clothing. It is only a Gurdwara they have a problem with.

"new iphone is coming out, need to buy it" is the mantra!

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On 5/15/2020 at 11:15 AM, Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh said:

What the hell are you on about ?  The residues left behind after cleaning with milk are acidic. Those residues attract dirt and encourage mould growth. Some of those marble floors we see in historic Sikh Gurdwaras in India are only 50 years old but they look like they are 500 years old because of the ignorant ways they have been cleaned....i.e. with milk. That ignorance is perpetuated by ignorant people like you preaching to those even more ignorant than you on the internet.

But....if logic and science isn't your thing and you prefer nature: You should know that waheguru made that milk for the cow's baby. Not so we could steal it from the mother and wash floors with it.

p.s. I wrote a few essays on the marble floors in Sikh Gurdwaras in my 'Sikh architecture' thread last year :

 

 

I used to like reading your posts but I don't know when and how you became so influenced by atheistic missionaries but like most missionaries your post is far from factual on this subject. Unlike the west which is dustless and with dry air, India is a very dusty place, the air is also very humid which is why dust builds up.  And you don't even know that it is Kachi Lassi not pure milk.

Milk is not just food. Traditionally milk has had multiple uses in India. For example, before Shampoos, people in the Pinds used to clean their hair using yogurt(ਦਹੀਂ). Many elderly people in the pinds still use Dahi instead of Shampoo. Maybe to a westerner like you these things seems too rustic because it doesn't involve any chemicals.

Kachi Lassi is a much better alternative for seva at Sri Darbar Sahib. If we listen to the heretic missionaries and started to use these modern chemical based cleaning products, it would drain into the sarovar killing the fish, it would be harmful to the pilgrims doing Ishnan, maybe even causing cancer in the long term.

Problem is many of our traditions were passed from generation to generation without explanation as to the reasons behind these traditions. This has resulted in a lot of confusion among western influenced Sikhs like you.

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On 5/12/2020 at 2:41 PM, jaswindersingh55 said:

I would say that the sgpc Maryada of Sachkhand harmanidr shaib is questionable as im confused why you have to wear a triangle paag to do seva as to do kirtan you cant wear a gol dastaar.  also women doing kirtan is agen sgpc, also how Darbar shaib should inspire Many Sikhs I feel that Sikh tradition kirtan should be promoted form there with tattnti saajs and this is not done as all you see is an harmonium, there once was a time at harmanider shaib when the rabab use to play even the animal would sit an listen, but thanks to sgpc this is a thing of the past, also the grantis have to wear an Pajama they cant were a chola ??????? I hope im wrong plz tell me all these thing iv hear are all false. all I see is that the sgpc are on. a mission to distroy Sikh and are against everything, 

ikr these things arent good. when sant ji was around, i heard females could do keertan in darbar sahib. also, the dumala was the dastaar given by the guru. the triangle pagg wasnt. sgpc isnt good. 

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Guest Jigsaw_Puzzled_Singh
8 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

I used to like reading your posts

Good. Glad to hear it.

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but I don't know when and how you became so influenced by atheistic missionaries

That's because I'm not influenced by anyone. You may remember - as I've often stated - I'm dead against the cult of personality in which one person's viewpoint (be it religious or otherwise) is taken as gospel simply because of whose mouth it is uttered from. I'm for science and fact.

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but like most missionaries

So now I'm a missionary ?  

Quote

Unlike the west which is dustless and with dry air, India is a very dusty place, the air is also very humid which is why dust builds up.  And you don't even know that it is Kachi Lassi not pure milk.

Nobody said anything about the environment....what we're discussing is the residue left by milk. Whether that bucket contains a litre of milk mixed with a gallon of water or whether it is a bucket full of milk is irrelevent - the fact is that the residue of even a small amount of milk will damage the aesthetics of marble. To continue to do so just because "it's tradition" is the height of ignorance.

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Milk is not just food.

Milk is not food...period !    We are the human living things on earth that drink the milk of another species. It was not made for us. It was made for the cow's baby.  Can you imagine if we lived on this earth among another giant human-type species who, one day, decided they liked the taste of the milk that comes from human females that have just given birth. And then, decided to industrialise the process by turning the women into milk-giving machines ?  Can you ?  No. You can't because it goes against the laws of nature. The law of nature is that the mother cow produces the milk for the nourishment of it's baby. Not for us to steal it and, among other things, wash marble floors with it. 

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Traditionally milk has had multiple uses in India.

Yes, 'traditionally' in India,  a baby born a female was killed, a wife threw herself into her husband's funeral pyre, people of a lower status in society were denied basic human rights etc. Don't come at me with no 'tradition' nonsense brother. Traditions can be right and traditions can be wrong. Only what's right is always right.

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This has resulted in a lot of confusion among western influenced Sikhs like you.

Ah.....I see.  So we started with you saying how much you used to enjoy reading the things I write and we end with you ignoring the things I have extensively written on this forum in which I describe the occident (the west) as a sham in relation to philosophical thought about morals and ethics. Everything I believe in brother is guided by nature and originates in the east.

I don't care about 'what they've 'traditionally' done. I believe in facts and the fact is that marble should NEVER EVER be cleaned with any product (i.e. kachi lassi) that contains even small amounts of MILK. Never.

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10 hours ago, akaaliKhalsa1699 said:

ikr these things arent good. when sant ji was around, i heard females could do keertan in darbar sahib. also, the dumala was the dastaar given by the guru. the triangle pagg wasnt. sgpc isnt good. 

nope sgpc never good. they should just be caretakers of gurdwaras, not influencing maryada and traditions.

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