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CHANDI DI VAAR MARYADA


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8 hours ago, Suchi said:

Banda Singh was a Hindu when GGSji asked him to join his army.

He was Sikh and had taken amrit before joining the gurus army. It doesn't matter whether he was hindu before or not.

8 hours ago, Suchi said:

He was also a Brahmin

Dude he was a kshatriya and in his childhood was fond of hunting

8 hours ago, Suchi said:

Why are you relying on Persian sources when they were the enemy at the time and not sources close to Banda Bahadur?

I don't use just persian Sources, I use all contemporary sources to understand the whole story. The narrative of sri kalgidhar patshah giving a hindu his army and telling him to get revenge is fairly recent and it's being pushed by the RSS. The truth is that banda Singh was a sikh and did not go to get revenge.

8 hours ago, Suchi said:

Anyway, my understanding is that if he hadn't been betrayed Punjab would have been free of Moghal rule in the 18C when the British could have also been tackled, rather than continue to be enslaved for a further 200 years. 

Lmk what your sources are - here are mine that do not say this: panth parkash and dr ganda singh. I won't mention the persian sources from now on but I can still make my point.

8 hours ago, Suchi said:

I also understand that Guru Gobind Singh ji made a specific order that no-one was to follow him, nor did he declare a successor and asked his followers to only follow the Guru Granth Sahib ji. 

Source? This is how rumors get started... At abchal nagar, guru Sahib gave guruship to both guru granth sahib ji and Guru panth khalsa.

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17 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

The term was used specifically in my opinion. They have a ship crashed in the caucus mountains that serves as their citadel. 

That's why caucasians are caucasians. 

My second guess would be Swiss Alps. Switzerland is 100 in the thick of it. 

Geographically for one. 

Enjoys unexplainable diplomatic and economic status historically and today. 

And if you look at the names of peoples and places certain patterns emerge denoting the status and origin of people in my opinion. 

And the Swiss both enjoy a disinct ethnic and country name free of the signs of having been enslaved. So does France. Very few countries do. 

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7 hours ago, Suchi said:

I've seen a copy of a census that showed that GGS ji had declared himself as a Hindu Khatri and therefore had not created a separate religion.  

Really ?‍♂️ what census would they have in the 1700s that Guru Sahib would participate in. Moreover, in his bani he declared that he has created a separate path for Sikhs

7 hours ago, Suchi said:

But after becoming an ascetic, he would be a Brahmin according to Vedic teachings.

And after becoming a Sikh, his caste wouldn't matter... Not that hard to understand.

7 hours ago, Suchi said:

My sources are Ajit Vadakayil who has written a detailed account of the background to the story.

Send me the book and tell me what primary sources he used. Panth Parkash uses stories that were passed down by older generations and Dr. Ganda Singh uses contemporary sources of those who were there with Banda Singh.

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8 hours ago, Suchi said:

After further reading: This is from a website by the Nirankaris who claim that GGS ji escaped and continued to live for a very long time.  They also state that it was the British who instituted the Guru Granth Sahib ji as they wanted to end any possible challenge to their rule by the growth of the movement.

You do know Nirankaris are banned from akal takht right? Their agenda is to have living gurus and thus they will use false stories.

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2 hours ago, intrigued said:

 

From Uggardanti by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj: 

"The victory to the almighty shall be my proclamation. To all, Wahe Wahe (Waheguru) shall be the word to meditate on. Designate the third panth. The Singh warriors shall rise and don blue attire. They will capture and destroy all demons (evil persons) They will sound the melody of victory in  the universe."

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    • WJKK WJKF Sangat Ji, I bought a brand new Artisan Kirpan (pic below) from https://thekhalsaraj.com/products/black-g10-ultra-durable-kirpans. It is the medium option (8.7 inches). I bought it 2 months ago and it is in unused condition, with everything that came with it still fully sealed. I even paid extra to get it ੴ ਸਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ  laser engraved on the blade. This cost me £370 including shipping from the USA. It is in brand new condition, but I no longer need it since I have been gifted a new Buddha Dal-made Pesh Kabz for free. I am selling it for £250 even though it is in brand new condition - it is a first-hand Kirpan. From the official website, it costs £370. The handle is indestructable G10 fiberglass, wielded to a razor sharp blade (edge and tip) which is engraved with the custom Gurbani. Please reply if any Singh/Kaur here would like to buy it - it's 100% first hand but £120 less than normal. Comes with a padded foam case for airport travel, a blank certificate of ownership, maintenance brochure and a beautifully decorated black/grey adjustable Gatra.   I sent this advert out to a few places, and also asked some retailers if they'd like it, so it may go soon. Please do reply if anybody is interested, more than happy to answer questions too! (below's a pic of the exact model, but not the Kirpan I have, as it's still in its box. I've only unsheathed it once to inspect it, and I can confirm it's in perfect condition).        
    • WJKK WJKF! How long will this forum remain online for in a readable & accessible state? It appears susceptible to shut-down. It would be a shame if all the forum's content from over the decades is lost in such an event due to servers hosting this forum shutting-down. This forum, whilst not currently active, remains an important repository of the Sikh religion online. It also is a fundamental aspect of Sikh cyber culture that existed from the early Internet period from the 2000's to 2010's before the domination by big social-media sites that consolidated the community. Thus, have the web-masters of this forum considered archiving this forum's contents before it is lost forever? I can assist you in this by saving the content to the Internet Archive on your behalf. Please let me know your thoughts about such an endeavour and I hope you may consider the possibility of archiving the forum for posterity. Future generations of Sikhs and Sikh researchers will be grateful. Kind regards, Theth Panjabi (you can find me on IG at theth.panjabi and on X/Twitter at ThethPanjabi)
    • Video on the tale, gurdwara, and manuscript: link As the story goes, during the Vadda Ghallughara genocide against the Sikhs perpetrated by the Afghan Durrani Empire on 5–6 February 1762, not only were Sikh lives lost, but our original Damdami Sahib Bir recension was also lost in that carnage. However, over the years I have spent researching our history, many claimed it was taken back to Afghanistan by Ahmad Shah Abdali's troops as loot whilst others said it was secretly hidden somewhere by the Singhs for safe-keeping. As of today, it remains untraceable and I presume it is gone for good. However, I came across a couple of articles stating that there were actually around five master-copies of the original Damdami Bir, with one of these copies being safeguarded by the jatha of Bhai Sudha Singh of the Shaheedan Misl. "It is said that the tenth Sikh master Guru Gobind Singh had got five birs written at Damdama Sahib. The bani (writings) of the ninth Sikh master Guru Tegh Bahadur were incorporated in these birs. These five birs were given to different jathas (groups) of Sikhs by Guru Gobind Singh to be safely installed. One bir was being taken by Sudha Singh who was leading a jatha of 19 Sikhs, when Abdali'[s] forces stormed Kup-Rohira and killed thousands of Sikhs. Though all 19 Sikhs were massacred by Abdali, Sudha Singh somehow brought the bir to Kuthala. Since then it has been kept at village gurdwara." (Times of India, 2012) The gurdwara today [Gurdwara Shaheed Baba Sudha Singh Ji in Kuthala] has a certain historical manuscript that they claim is one of the five master-copies of the Damdama recension. You can see close-up shots of the bir in the video posted. I will also share close-up images of its folios in the comment section. I will also provide a faithful English translation of the video's narration so non-Punjabi speakers may benefit from this post. I will leave the question on whether this bir is authentic or not to your judgement but I will provide my own analysis below.   English translation of the video's narration: The Guru-form Guru Khalsa Holy Congregation (Sadh Sangat) Ji, Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. The Gurdwara Sahib that the congregation is currently beholding is situated in Village Kuthala, near Malerkotla, in the Sangrur district of Punjab. A very great treasure is preserved within this Gurdwara Sahib. The history of this Gurdwara Sahib is very closely related to the Vada Ghalughara (The Great Holocaust) that took place in February 1762. Baba Sudha Singh Ji, the third head of the Shaheedi Misl, arrived at this location considering it a safe place. He brought with him that sacred holy scripture (Saroop) which the Tenth Father, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, had personally dictated to Bhai Mani Singh Ji on the holy land of Damdama Sahib. Upon arriving, he personally performed the last rites (cremation) of 19 martyred Sikhs at this site. As he prepared to leave to take command of the Jatha (the Sikh contingent), the sacred holy scripture he had brought was enshrined at this very location. At that time, this place was known as Dera Jaga Sidh, but nowadays, a very beautiful building stands here in the name of Gurdwara Sahib Shaheedi. The sacred holy scriptures that were enshrined at that time are today ceremoniously displayed (Prakashwan) with great respect every Channi Dashmi (the tenth day of the bright lunar fortnight) for the congregation to behold. Devotees from within the country and abroad arrive to catch a glimpse of these sacred scriptures and receive the Guru's blessings. Every year, an annual Gurmat Samagam (religious congregation) is held for five consecutive days in memory of the martyrs of the Great Holocaust, concluding on Magh Sudi Dashmi. Furthermore, a book containing the full detailed history—titled after Shaheed Baba Sudha Singh Ji and the Hand-written Holy Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji—was released in February 2013 by the managing volunteers based on historical research. It was released by the 14th head of the Shaheedi Misl, Singh Sahib Baba Makhan Singh Ji (the current head of Baba Bakala Sahib), the Meet Jathedar Singh Ji, and Sant Gurdev Singh Ji of Anandpur Sahib (the current head). The congregation can obtain spiritual benefit by reading it. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.   My analysis: In my humble opinion (which may be incorrect), this bir is not a master-copy of the Damdami Bir. It more closely resembles the highly-decorated birs of the Kashmiri-style that were created during the reign of the Sikh Empire in the first half of the 19th century. We can see this bir has highly illuminated and illustrated angs (folios), which took the great skill of a master artisan to make, which required resources to pay and patronize. Usually, the manuscripts during the Sikh Empire were the most elaborately decorated, as this was when the Sikhs were at a high-point, masters of the land, possessing vast amounts of resources that they could use to fund such endeavors. Therefore, whilst the story may be true and a master-copy of the Damdami Bir recension may have once been at this location, I am not convinced that this particular manuscript is it. I may be mistaken and I am open to constructive criticism. 1633648456_GurdwaraHistory.mp4
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