82% of Sikh youth pray - could we be turning the corner

[proactive]

1 hour ago, SikhKosh said:

I am not saying Sikhs to go protest against CAA, support Muslims against every Hindutva move, I am not saying that we have to condemn the Hindu right wing for every move (especially if their move is beneficial for Sikhs) but we have to start taking carefully calculated steps where we do not become subjugated, cannon fodder for either India or Pakistan but maintain our own identity, remain neutral and yet let both Hindus and Muslims feel they need us and are close to us. It is time for us to learn from Chanakya Niti and stop being emotional fools.

The problem is that unfortunately our people act like emotional fools and with the liberals like Ravi Singh and others going against the Rehat Maryada by allowing Namaz in Gurdwaras we can already see what the limited amount of 'good relationship' leads to. The Muslims will take advantage and any hope of solidarity will be a forlorn hope. Even Imran Khan could not help the family of the Granthi from Nankana Sahib get his daughter back from the clutches of the Muslim who had abducted her. These are people who number 200 Million and yet they cannot give back a Sikh girl to her family even though Sikhs had shown so much support for Muslim women from Kashmir who were in danger in the rest of India. It is always a one way solidarity with them.

With regard to the Jats in West Punjab, again this is a forlorn hope. For one, the Jats who have an affinity with us form only a small minority of the Muslim Jats of West Punjab. The majority of the Muslim Jats of West Punjab are not even Jats, they are a mongrel race with various agricultural castes which now call themselves Jats. None of their Gotes are known this side of the border. The ones with affinity with us (Dhillons, Sandhus and Virks etc) are the same people who migrated from East Punjab rather than become Sikhs and stay on on our Punjab. They have already voted with their feet. The small number of Jats who were originally from Lahore-Sheikhupura-Gujranwala area are in no position to help Sikhs. They are miniscule in number and having been Muslim for many generations they have married their chachay taiyae diyan deeiyan and they are degraded in the eyes of both Jat Sikhs and Hindu Jaats. 

 

 

[proactive]

21 minutes ago, SikhKosh said:

If medieval Sikhs had the intellect and foresight to accept Nawabi from the same Mughal government that hunted them for decades, we need to play our cards smartly as well. The situation of Sikhs today is not much better than at the times of Nawab Kapoor Singh because we have no real political power.

I condemn Hindu and Islamic terror, from love jihad to RSS inspired ethnicide. But I stay firm on the principle that we need to utilize every opportunity which can be in our favor, all while remaining cautious.

Everything you say is true, but the Pak Govt response to the incidents, despite being an Islamic republic, were pretty decent and swift. We all know they have an hidden agenda to use Sikhs, but we have to be smarter than both them and the Hindus and play our cards well.

All the points I suggested in my earlier posts will not have any negative repercussions, unlike the woke Sikhs that want us to allow namaaz in Gurdwaras, rebuild all mosques in East Punjab and so on. 

 

Unfortunately we cannot equate Sikhs now with the Sikhs of the 18th century. We have id.iots today falling over each other to build and rebuild Mosques in villages where there are a handful of Muslims. There are over 200 Million Muslims and these haram.zada liberals building Mosques do not realise that when the sh1t hits the fan then just as our id,iocy welcomed the Christian missionaries who were on the run in the rest of India from the Hindutvis and now they are paying us back with conversions of poorer Sikhs, the same will be the case with the Muslims who will flock to Punjab and with their 8-10 kids soon undo the sacrifices that our forefathers made in 1947. 

Rather than wasting money and resources in trying to curry favour with the Muslims, we should be aiming to take leadership of the Dharmics because the next war will not be an Indo-Pakistan war but a civil war in the cow belt between the Dharmics and the Muslims. 

[SikhKosh]

If there are chances of a civil war in the cow belt, there are equal chances of Pak disintegrating. While I agree that the bulk of our energy and resources should go into the Jaats and Dharmics, we should not ignore Pak Punjab because with proper presence we can undo some of the mistakes made in 1947 and before.

By the way, when I said Pak Juts and others I meant all castes that have shared surnames (gotras) across the border, so also Rajputs, Khatris and so on. I have noticed Pak Muslims with common castes with us usually use their gotra while others do not (be it the Dhillons Virks or the Minhas Bhatti or Aroras).

[proactive]

38 minutes ago, SikhKosh said:

 

Everything you say is true, but the Pak Govt response to the incidents, despite being an Islamic republic, were pretty decent and swift. We all know they have an hidden agenda to use Sikhs, but we have to be smarter than both them and the Hindus and play our cards well.

 

 

This is untrue. The Pakistan govt if they wanted could have made the Muslim family hand the daughter of the Granthi back, but they did want to do that so they want through the pretence  of sending her to an Islamic refuge where each and every functionary would have bullied her and made her believe that if she did not stay with the Muslim then her family would be killed. They then went though the motions of saying that they were following her wish to stay with the Muslim abductor. 

[proactive]

5 minutes ago, SikhKosh said:

If there are chances of a civil war in the cow belt, there are equal chances of Pak disintegrating. While I agree that the bulk of our energy and resources should go into the Jaats and Dharmics, we should not ignore Pak Punjab because with proper presence we can undo some of the mistakes made in 1947 and before.

By the way, when I said Pak Juts and others I meant all castes that have shared surnames (gotras) across the border, so also Rajputs, Khatris and so on. I have noticed Pak Muslims with common castes with us usually use their gotra while others do not (be it the Dhillons Virks or the Minhas Bhatti or Aroras).

Muslim Rajputs will never ally with us. They were virtually wiped out in the Malwa in 1947 and they have no affinity with us. If 70 years of Hindu rule in India could not convince the Muslims of India to reconvert back to Hinduism, these people will hardly convert to Sikhism when there is no pressure to. We missed our chance to convert them to Sikhi during the rule of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. At that time they had only been Muslims for a few generations and reconverting them would have been easier. Now there is no hope and any alliance with them would only lead to our weakness. 

As I wrote above the Jats who have affinity with us are less than a million and in a sea of 200 million people their help if they even chose to help us would be worth nothing. 

Our aim should be to follow the prophecy of the Uggaradanti which foresaw the supplanting of both Islam and Hinduism in Hindustan (north India) by the Khalsa. 

[SikhKosh]

27 minutes ago, proactive said:

This is untrue. The Pakistan govt if they wanted could have made the Muslim family hand the daughter of the Granthi back, but they did want to do that so they want through the pretence  of sending her to an Islamic refuge where each and every functionary would have bullied her and made her believe that if she did not stay with the Muslim then her family would be killed. They then went though the motions of saying that they were following her wish to stay with the Muslim abductor. 

You could be right, I have stopped following the details of these love jihad news because in many cases in the end it turns out that our 'own' girls were complicit as well. Such as the case where Pak journalist Harmeet Singh's younger brother was killed. It turns out his fiancée had an affair with a Muslim guy and they both decided to get rid of him. I nowhere support Muslim grooming but somehow we as Sikhs have also lost our notion of anakh (self respect) and izzat (honor) and our openness lets our girls become friendly with these strangers who in turn brainwash them from a young age.

Anyhow, all I remember was that the fat sullah doing the hate speech in Nankana Sahib was put behind bars swiftly, the Maharaja Ranjit Singh statue vandalisers as well. I miss the same swiftness (even if only for show) in India.

Others than that I do not wish to argue with a fellow brother for Paks or muslay. So lets just leave the Pak Punjabi Muslim angle at this. 

[Jai Tegang!]

There problem is that we are stuck between an antiqued leadership that controls our gurdwara institutions and up-and-coming self-destructive liberal types. The Pakistanis and Hindustanis are playing football with us because we can’t seem to find an independent and secure footing in our panthic-level policies.  That’s why you will get Sirsa (who has done great things for us) and Captain obliging their superiors by shooting off on Imran Khan and ISI. The same happens from the Pak side with those scared souls of our microscopic community that get used for anti-india propaganda.

Maybe we just don’t have enough shrewd and capable people in our community to steer the ship?

[SikhKosh]

19 minutes ago, proactive said:

Muslim Rajputs will never ally with us. They were virtually wiped out in the Malwa in 1947 and they have no affinity with us. If 70 years of Hindu rule in India could not convince the Muslims of India to reconvert back to Hinduism, these people will hardly convert to Sikhism when there is no pressure to. We missed our chance to convert them to Sikhi during the rule of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. At that time they had only been Muslims for a few generations and reconverting them would have been easier. Now there is no hope and any alliance with them would only lead to our weakness. 

As I wrote above the Jats who have affinity with us are less than a million and in a sea of 200 million people their help if they even chose to help us would be worth nothing. 

Our aim should be to follow the prophecy of the Uggaradanti which foresaw the supplanting of both Islam and Hinduism in Hindustan (north India) by the Khalsa. 

The same could've been said for Haryanvi Jaats a decade back. They were the most violent of the lot that murdered Sikhs in Delhi 1984. A lot of Haryanvi Jaats kidnapped Sikh women and took them to their villages in Haryana to be kept as slaves just 3 decades back. The Jaat-Sikh feud was a massive one in the 70s 80s 90s, I think hardly anyone could've imagined them becoming so close to Sikhs in just a few years time.
The same way, I often interact with Pak Punjabi Muslims who often have a soft corner for Sikhs and Guru Nanak Sahib in particular. You'll have to understand that some of them are afraid to openly show their admiration for Guru Nanak in such a fanatical country or society.

Besides that, I was neither talking of an alliance nor financial support to them, I was simply saying to use this relation tactfully to get our rights (restore all Gurdwaras, parchar among Sindhi Hindus, Punjabi Christians, state sponsored exhibitions about Sikh Raaj, Punjabiat and so on, ...) - these things can hardly have a negative impact if not a positive one for our Qaum.

But you are right, our main priority should be Jaats and dharmics in northern India (Haryana, Rajasthan, Uttarakhand and western Uttar Pradesh). 

[proactive]

2 minutes ago, SikhKosh said:

The same could've been said for Haryanvi Jaats a decade back. They were the most violent of the lot that murdered Sikhs in Delhi 1984. A lot of Haryanvi Jaats kidnapped Sikh women and took them to their villages in Haryana to be kept as slaves just 3 decades back. The Jaat-Sikh feud was a massive one in the 70s 80s 90s, I think hardly anyone could've imagined them becoming so close to Sikhs in just a few years time.
The same way, I often interact with Pak Punjabi Muslims who often have a soft corner for Sikhs and Guru Nanak Sahib in particular. You'll have to understand that some of them are afraid to openly show their admiration for Guru Nanak in such a fanatical country or society.

Besides that, I was neither talking of an alliance nor financial support to them, I was simply saying to use this relation tactfully to get our rights (restore all Gurdwaras, parchar among Sindhi Hindus, Punjabi Christians, state sponsored exhibitions about Sikh Raaj, Punjabiat and so on, ...) - these things can hardly have a negative impact if not a positive one for our Qaum.

But you are right, our main priority should be Jaats and dharmics in northern India (Haryana, Rajasthan, Uttarakhand and western Uttar Pradesh). 

There is no doubt that Haryanvi Jaats took part in attacks on Sikhs in 1984 but from what I know that vast majority of the violence in Haryana was outside the Jat belt and was along the GT road from Delhi to Punjab. That area has various populations of Punjabi Hindus, Gujjars, Jaats and Tagas etc.  Some of the violence in Delhi by Jaats were by supporters of Sajjan Kumar and other Jaat leaders but most was by Congress supporters bringing in lower castes from the slum areas into Delhi and providing them kerosene and voters lists to target Sikh households. 

I agree that the main priority should be North India. The Hindus of North India are already seeing their areas being taken over by hordes of Muslims from Eastern UP and Bihar/Bengal and Bangladesh. Western UP is close to being lost by them, the Jaats of this area are seeing that they are being swamped. The Muzaffarnagar riots in 2013 were an outburst of emotion against the love Jihad which has being going in that area for years. The farm andolan might have bought the Jaats closer to the Muslim farmers in Western UP but it will just one more love jihad incident by Muslims to ignite the area again. 

[SikhKosh]

With the right Jaat-Dalit-Vanjara-Sikligar nexus we can do wonders in northern India.