Pictures of the Guru? Manmat or Gurmat?

[sher_panjabi]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Photos/Pictures of the Gurus - We see them in shops, homes and some Gurdware. People also now have little models of Guru Nanak Ji which they have in their cars now! Are images of the Guru (not refering to images/pictures which portray history) manmat or gurmat or pointless????

Harko-vale Baba Ji view:

"Who picture is this of? People say: GUru Ji. If it is Guru Ji then who are we to hang our Guru on the wall! How disrespectful. If you think the picture/photo on the wall is Guru Nanak Ji or Guru Gobind Singh Ji then shouldn't we do chaur sahib, have a takht sahib and give full honour to our Guru? Or is our Guru worthy of being hanged on an iron nail in the wall.  So either we say it is Guru Ji and give full respect or we don't hang or keep pictures on walls and at home and avoid this disrespect."

Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa, Bhindranwale view:

"I am not favour of pictures/photos of hanging or keeping photos of the Gurus. However, if you wish to hang photos, then hang those photos which show Sikhi Di Kamaa-ee. Those photos show

ing Sikhs being sawn alive, burnt alive, and being torn on rotating wheels.  Keep those photos by which seeing you and your children see Sikhi DI Kamaa-ee and are inspired to live as Gursikhs."

[sher_panjabi]

My view point is based on what a Katha-vaachic said at the Gurdwara once:

You have a bowl of plastic fruit on the table. And you have real fruit.

Looking at the plastic fruit, you cannot experience the Ras, taste, which one would experience in eating real fruit. You cannot get close to it.

You can either sit and stare at the plastic fruit on the table, or eat and relish real fruit! The choice is yours.

Now, you can either see Guru Nanak Ji is the person in the picture hanging on the wall. Or you can live Gurbaani, and become the walking image of Guru Nanak Ji, and experience Guru Nanak Ji, by following the Shabad Guru.

That sums it up for me!

gur kI mUriq mn mih iDAwnu ]

gur kee moorath mun mehi dhiaan

Meditate on the image of the Guru within your mind;

gur kY sbid mMqRü mnu mwn ]

gur kai subadh munthru mun maan

let your mind accept the Word of the Guru's Shabad, and His Mantra.

gur ky crn irdY lY Dwrau ]

gur kae churun ridhai lai dhaaro

Enshrine the Guru's feet within your heart.

guru pwrbRhmu sdw nmskwrau ]1]

gur paarubrehum sudhaa numusukaaro

Bow in humility forever before the Guru, the Supreme Lord God. ||1||

Ang 864, Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj

[Jaspaul Singh]

veerji,

I fully respect where you are coming from, but what i am about to say is totally what is of my experience and of less knowledge than yours..

Veerji, i came into sikhi because of the cite of my gurus. IF it wasnt for my parents of having a single picture of guru sahib in my house, NONE of us would be where we are now..

.. veerji we are NOT a gursikh family. None in my family are amritdhari. BUT GURU KRIPA naal, i have taken amrit 2 years ago, and now everyone inm y family look up to me. Everyone have let go of meat because i took amrit and they wanna be respectful in my family...

.. veerji, there are many reasons i came into sikhi, but mark my words, i would NOT be in sikhi or even NEAR sikhi, if it wasnt for pictures of guru nanak dev ji and guru gobind singh ji up in my room, the halls, and all over the house. Over and Over again i use to walk past them in the past (when i wasnt amritdhari) and i would say dhan guru nanak... i had respect.. eventhough i had no idea what sikhi was.. having those pictures reli helped me.

.. it was like for a gora, being told that all you know is guru nanak dev ji is ur first guru, guru gobind singh ji is ur last guru, and your guide is to follow the teachings of sri guru granth sahib ji .. THATS ALL I KNEW !

.. now as for the pictures up. Veerji no person would allow their picture to be hung up and looked upon. Not even the shaheeds. The Gurus, and all the Shaheeds had nimarta.. they would not allow their picture to be up for worship..

r>BUT.. if it encourages one.. like myself to turn his whole life around, i say do it. I AM TOTALLY AGAINST IDOL WORSHIP. No one in my family does it dat i know of, but i know how many people have been effected just by having the picture of guru sahib up..

Im sorry if i sounded rude,

bhul chuk maph!

[atl singh]

im def with Sant Jee Bhindranwale on that topic. shaheed's pics are great reminders. even keep sant jee's pics up for a reminder also. those guru jee pictures are nice but their just for art in my mind. although i heard their is one painting of Shri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Jee that was a portrait sort of thing. still kinda shady tho

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

for someone who walked all the way to baghdad, Guru Nanak is shown like some jolly old fat guy....once my mom's goreh friends came to our house and they saw Guru Nanak Dev Ji's picture and Guru Gobind Singh Ji's picture and said, is that your father and your grandfather?

Also once a Muslim guy said to my dad, "Wow you sikhs are lucky you can buy your Gurus for like $20 at a store..."

Personally, I think pictures of Gurus are an insult to the Gurus. The Gurus spent all their lives telling us that worshipping the one Formless Supreme Waaheguru God is the way but still we would rather worship paper with paint smeared on it.

Plus nothing worse than seeing my parents standing with their hands folded in front of a picture in the morning. idol worship all the way!

Bani is Guru, and Guru is Bani, not some white looking guy with a beard and a halo over his head.

oh yeah while I'm rambling on and on, I heard from an amritdhari Singh that people used to bow to Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji but when the Gurgaddi was passed to Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji, people only bowed to Guru Angad Dev Ji, because people bowed to the Bani not the actual person.....

[moorakh mugadh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

bowing to any picture is manamt,but showing pictures for knowdlege sake is ok.

[sher_panjabi]

THe second picture - by looking at it reminds you of history and you learn how Guru Nanak Ji ate at Bhai Lalo Ji's house - so its not for worship but to learn history.

But the first picture = if you're gonna hang it in your house or gurdwara - it is more likely that some people may do matha tekhna to it or think it is literally Guru nanak Ji

[moorakh mugadh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

i prefer 2nd one jee :wub:

[H4RPAL]

Definately the second one in my book too- by putting up ones like the first one, we are missing an opportunity to educate the youth. I remember being in the langar hall at Dixie Road Gurdwara in toronto once, where some kids were looking at pictures of shaheeds (I think there is one of Bhai Taru Singh), and then wanting to know what was happening, which gave me an opportunity to explain (in my English accent which they found rather comical!- funny how they don't see theirs is worse!) <_

[AK-47]

I was reading a book on some questions someone had asked sant kartar singh ji bhindranwale.

One was about pictures and such.

sant ji said, 'these pictures are like the walking stick for those who cannot walk, with the stick people find it easier to walk and eventually when their legs get stronger, when they learn how to walk then they no longer need the stick. In the same way for some people these pictures will help guide them into sikhi, they might provide reminders or inspiration, eventually a gursikh will feel no need for them and like the discarded walking stick he can walk the gursikh path without the need to look at pictures, because he will realise that the true beauty of the guru can never be caught in a painting or a picture.'

i like that approach. Nobody says that to have pictures is idol worship or u must bow to them etc, thats bad practice and a different issue to having pictures.

they do help a lot of people, but for others they provide hinderance. personally i think some of the pictures are just soo amazingly beautifu, yes not as beuatiful as guru ji obviously but beuatiful all the same.

People will often use imagery to help focus their minds, some people use an image initially of whatthey percieve to be guru jis face, other people imagine their focus on their feet, or on image of guru granth sahib ji, others on the script vaheguru o of gurbani , etc etc etc

Eventually we dnt need these images but if people use them to get that foothold into sikhi and bhagti then it aint the end of the world.

I think very few people look at guru ji's picture as guru ji himself, i.e. they know that it is only a pic and that actual gur

u ji is guru granth sahib ji, i know people do silly things wiv these pics whih should of course be discouraged, but dnt rip them all apart by calling them idol worshippers. if lookin at a pic can reignite that pyar for maharajh in their hearts every time they walk past then for them thats a good thing.