What constitutes as Beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaaj?

[N30S1NGH]

sorry for little off topic, admin if they wish to they can split this topic with my post but since we are discussing on beadi of maharaj. I like to post my thoughts on this:

I wanted to know from R4G campaigners and others-

what constitutes an beadhi of maharaj? is it an malice intention or difference of opnions in both - maryada or way of looking at things. I beleive strictly malice intentions constitutes an beadhi of maharaj. Ignorance/sharda/firm beleive in satguru purifies everything from brothels to banquet hall upon arrival does not constitute as beadhi of maharaj.

We all can agree taking maharaj to where sharab/taboacco is distributed intentially despite of person fully being educated is beadhi. Any joe blow who are born into sikh family knows that.

However, lets move little more towards subtle connoations of beadhi.

- Does arti-arta/phoola di varka on guru maharaj constitutes an beadhi of maharaj? most of people on here may say yes.. call it bhraminvad/manmat/ maha beadi therefore act like panthic police take out kirpana/ gandasa wait for house address on their mobile phones so that they can stop this maha beadhi but according to puratan maryada this does not hold that as beadhi but totally opposite as form of respect and individual's sharda.

- Does karak mahapursh bhramgyanis pictures/their relics close to maharaj or on the walls where maharaj is parkashed is beadhi? again some people may call this beadhi and ready to pick up their kirpana and gandasaie but another way of looking at that, bhramgyanis status given in gurbani how they are one with one jot of akaal purkh, there is no difference which gurbani itself talks about over and over and over again. How can one call this beadhi of maharaj where one is following instructions from gurbani on different forms of satkar given to sants/bhramgyanis?

- Is the person guilty of maharaj beadi or does this constitute maharaj beadhi if a person expressing his/her love more passionately eg- good knight kiss to guru ji ang, shed tears which falls on guru's pavitar ang? talk to guru ji like a freind like mitr to mitr after reaching that bhramdrist avastha?

- Is a person guilty of maharaj beadhi if a person who is in maharaj's room at the house gets into samadh roop mode for days that he/she forgets to do daily rituals like- sukhasan, bhog, hakumnamas?

- Is a person guilty of maharaj beadhi if a person who is in seva of maharaj in the room at the house all of sudden start getting attuned to vibrations which more than his/her capacitycan handle, letting him/her into trance mode where strange type of maneuvers/dancing/clapping/spining is naturally comes out infront of maharaj? is this beadhi of maharaj?

- How about subtle forms of beadhi which sikhs see it in every day life but sikhs decides to ignore or brush aside- eg- misprouncian of gurbani- unshud ucharan of gurbani, not singing in raagas as instructed in musical metres of gurbani, destruction of birdh/puratan saroops/gutkas of guru maharaj by SGPC, bhausaria's types subtly targetting gurbani being not mukhvak of gurus and targetting bhai gurdas ji varan by creating sansa/doubts among sangat.??

People have to look at these scenarios and subtle forms of beadhi before they start jumping on the bandwagons started writing petitions and causing unncessary bitterness/hostilty/division, waste of manpower, energy/time. Beadhi of maharaj is beadhi of maharaj, whether its in form of physical beadhi or in sutble form it does not make any difference.

Last but not least, i ll leave the sangat with two mindset of bhramgyanis on the issue of physical beadhi of guru maharaj..without any question they are both right, its not about the question of one mindset being right and other being wrong. They both need to be understood from very open mindset.

One such mindset is practised by purshautam maryada mahapursh, if physical beadhi of maharaj is taking place anywhere...Purshautam maryada mahapursh takes more active approach to instill anakh/sidaki/sharda in sikhs, - bringing people who do beadhi of mahapursh to justice. There is nothing wrong with that, its absoultely fine.

However second mindset which is often praticised by carefree mastaney bhramgyanis are equally valid and right. Mastaney bhramgyanis deals with maharaj's physical beadhi in a very different manner from looking at the angle of sri guru granth sahib ji(tat nichor/main essence) being- shabad guru and they ask others who like to join mahapursh in this protest- How and who can destroy or do beadhi of shabad guru?? shabad guru prevades in everything(kan/kan), its a primal force/dhuni/ resosance, it was there before beginning, past, present and ever will be (aad sach, jugad sach, hai bhi sach, nanak hosi bhi sach). How can people with malice intentions do beadhi of maharaj in essence all they do is to try to invoke reaction from sikh community so that they can show the world by getting help of media how extermists/terrorist/fanatics sikhs are by playing with their emotions.

Mastaney mahapurshs just smile at these foolish people who think they can do physical beadi of maharaj - shabad guru. Shabad guru prevades in everything,everywhere, universe, multiverse countless realms, universe. shabad guru its a primal force/dhuni/resosance/daiv shakti/shakta, its force that supports/nourishes whole akar... in essence , one cannot do beadhi of shabad guru. Shabad guru is nirankari jot.

As gurbani mentions- Vaho Vaho Bani Nirankar Hai ||

As they say- when you spit at the moon, spit comes to your face, nothing happens to glowing moon.

So both mindsets/angles adapted by mahapursh and people when it comes to beadhi of maharaj are right and valid. We have to be careful not to get emotionally carried away during this sangrash/peaceful protest and not start labelling each other - kacha pilla, dhilla singh or katarpanthi, extermist, fanatics sikhs just because people with other mindsets which is diversified and fully adapted by mahapursh's may have different approach fully aligned with gurmat via gurbani.

[BiBi G]

^^taken from thread "Bhai Sukha Singh's Talk"

[JustME]

mmmmmmmmmm very thought-provoking.......................i real need to understnad what actually constitutes as "Beadbi" bcos when people have Akhand Paths at their homes? and they have meat in their freezers? booze in their garage?

There is a real need to understand BEADBI and what is ingornace which can be overcome throught teaching and education..............

[rupinder singh]

These are my observations of the last 5 years.

Looking back at the early days of R4G, which I had a minor participation in. Based on what the original Singhs from Ilford & Coventry started discussing, I seem to remember the issue was more focused on the commercial exploitation of Sikh maryada, such as Maharaj's Saroop taken to hotels and Anand karajs being performed in big hotel venues and party halls being created within the Gurdwaras. It was meant to be about raising awareness of the Sikh ceremonies and explaining their deeper meanings and disassociation with flaunting wealth and success. The danger was seen as the over commercialisation by Granthis, Committees of Sikhi and therefore the Singhs wanted to tackle the corruption, even if it meant a direct approach such as stopping Anand Karajs being performed in hotels or clubs.

The issues became more complex when beadbi started getting attached to many scenarios and things weren't as crystal clear anymore. Also the movement started getting bigger and started attracting more aggressive hijackers as well as some political type people, the results were situations like the Leamington gurdwara diwali party.

I think in the end the original Singhs from R4G seem to have backed down and let others take the lead. But the situations of beadbi are not always clear cut and it now boils down to who shouts the loudest...

[AK-47]

Fair questions neo and they do seem to include pretty much all the different ones that have been raised over the last few years, and perhaps as i mentioned in time for wedding season, which is when we see 'most' (per our view) beadbi happening.

From my observations i think that the movement when it started a few years ago was aimed at specific incidents such as guru ji being taken to wedding halls. As more people have gotten involved, this has developed into tackling other issues also. As we know when more people get involved, you get wider range of views and hence different people will view each situation differently. The response to a incident of beadbi is also different for different people. Some will say educate, others will say beat the person senseless.

Its always good for new people to get involved though as it challenges the old mindset, but can be dangerous as well. So in this repect its good that sukha singh and others have recently decided to start helping out with this guru maharajh beadbi issue.

The reason i raised this in the other thread was exactly what you have said above neo. We get involved, but often dont know what were getting involved in.

I gave the example of sant jarnail singh, who openly spoke out against maharajh's beadbi, and his message was clear, the gun on his hip was clear, the armed singhs around him was clear. so if you got involved you knew what it was leading to. he gave clear cut examples of the type of beadbi happening and asked the singhs why they hadnt dealt with the people who had done this (usually this was dealt sith very shortly after)

Now the guys trying to prevent maharajh's beadbi have been doing a good job in my view, in the MAJORITY of cases everything has been peaceful, but in a few incidents things have gotten physical. Chalo its part of the territory you cant expect every situation to go smoothly and i think people accepted that. Now sukha singh has perhaps taken this one step further? He asked the question, 'why are those that talk bad about dasam granth maharajh still breathing and walking around'. when sant jarnail singh ji asked this, you knew what he meant as it was obvious. i am pleased that sukha singh has said this personally cus i agree, nindaks of guru sahib should be sorted out. however, as neo has said we need to be careful of what we think this nindia/beadbi is.

and there is always the time and place consideration as well, theres a lot to think about and mull over before any action is taken. I just hope people appreciate that the singhs who take out their time and put their freedom and security on the line are not all thugs and crminals but actually have true panthic dard in their hearts.

duno if any of that made sense! sorry if anything was said wrong!

[THE WARRIOR]

Fundamentally whatever the situation people should conduct themselves within the perimeters of the Law, there has been much associated with this issue from violence, vandalism and arson. Equally the exploitation of Guru Ji needs to be carefully examined, and where it is felt that the situation is blasphemous then action needs to be taken. Action in the form of changing legislation in The Law, or adding to it so that such actions do not hurt sentiments of faithful of that particular religion etc. passionate jiwans and misunderstandings lead only to disasters, people ending up in hospitals and prisons is not the way forward. There are tools in place to address this issue sensibly; however this requires a change in mentality and this is the root cause “the mentality”

[chatanga]

Now sukha singh has perhaps taken this one step further? He asked the question, 'why are those that talk bad about dasam granth maharajh still breathing and walking around'. when sant jarnail singh ji asked this, you knew what he meant as it was obvious. i am pleased that sukha singh has said this personally cus i agree, nindaks of guru sahib should be sorted out. however, as neo has said we need to be careful of what we think this nindia/beadbi is.

during the rainsbhai at wednesfield all the leaflets on Dasam Guru Granth were taken. it was the only leaflets that were completley taken . either there was a serious lack of knowledge by the attendnace of the rainsbhia, or some anti-Dasam Guru Granth person had deliberatelty taken them. i think it is the second option.

[N30S1NGH]

Thanks to ak47, rupindersingh, warrior veer for your replies, your posts definately helps to understand this comlex topic little better. I will make detail post later on tackling further issues.

Thanks to mods/admin to spliting this topic, can you guys do me another favor, can you please rename the subject of this thread from beadhi to "What constitutes at beadhi of guru maharaj ?"

Thanks soo much in advance.

[khalistan_zindabaad]

Now sukha singh has perhaps taken this one step further? He asked the question, 'why are those that talk bad about dasam granth maharajh still breathing and walking around'. when sant jarnail singh ji asked this, you knew what he meant as it was obvious. i am pleased that sukha singh has said this personally cus i agree, nindaks of guru sahib should be sorted out. however, as neo has said we need to be careful of what we think this nindia/beadbi is.

during the rainsbhai at wednesfield all the leaflets on Dasam Guru Granth were taken. it was the only leaflets that were completley taken . either there was a serious lack of knowledge by the attendnace of the rainsbhia, or some anti-Dasam Guru Granth person had deliberatelty taken them. i think it is the second option.

Who gave the leaflets out?

what was written on them?

could u put some info from the leaflets on here

thank you

[Goli Da Vair Sada]

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