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I didn't really bother writing, 'in my view' before every sentence I write. The very fact that I am a nobody who has just come onto a discussion forum, is me in myself acknowledging that I have no authority to anyone. I am sorry about how my post came across and will work on it. I am no one to dare even thinking I can force the sangat to do anything.

If you don't agree with me, or think I am wrong, there is no need to mock me. Please do ardaas to guide me onto the right path! I am not trying to act like any 'panthic police' or authority, I just put my views and a request based on those views forward. Once again I am a nyana bacha and invite you to educate me. 'foolish ji', as far as I am aware ethanol is not actually present in fruit and neither is it natural. Maybe I am wrong. Please forgive my mistakes.

I dont think many sikhs would be bothered they would just choose the veggie option even if it was jhakta meat the majority would choose veggie option! Hard to offend when its someone elses religion, think again majority of sikhs would dislike the method of killing ie painful for the animal rather than the prayer that is offered up!

Agree! Believe me , I get MAD at UK Muslims as to why they let retards like Anjem Chaudry to speak as "representative of Muslim community" .... Muslims must clean out the black ships from their own community

Every religion has good and bad (YES EVEN SIKHS). We should be looking at individual qualities and not be against any Faith !!!!! I have many close Muslim friends who are respectful to Sikhi and as i am to Islam. They are critical and have much shame for the actions carried out by their own communitte in the name of Islam !!! Auzer, the reason why grooming is so big in the UK amongst the Pakistani community is due to the lack of effort to deal with it INTERNALLY. It should be made clear anyone found gulity of forced conversion, black mail and grooming will be kicked out of Islam and outcasted from the community !!!!!!!!!!!! BUT instead what happens is this behaviour is over looked and the perpetrators are welcomed with open arms only to do the same again..

A legend, IMO. Pure knowledge without an agenda. I've started to listen to their katha in-depth this year, and whilst you try to absorb as much as you can, a person also realises how many deficiencies they (as in the listener) have as a Sikh.

Here is another recording of Sant Ji doing katha of Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars and Sant ji again says Sri Chand was full of ego and told people not to worship Satguru Sri Guru Agand Dev Ji Maharaj, but worship the monument I(Sri Chand) built for Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj. Sant ji close to the end of the katha on the last tuk says both sons of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj did not accept Satguru Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji Maharaj as Guru. Also neither could both sons of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj respect Satguru Sri Guru Amar Das Ji Maharaj. Sant ji end this katha by calling the Udasi leader Sri Chand, as a person who could not follow Sikhi and this udasi leader stated empty (spiritually he stayed empty), even though look how many people follow Sri Chand. Sant ji's last words......Bhai Gurdas Ji has written the truth here. Vaar 26 Pauri 33 - Baal Jatee Hai Sirichand http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6143

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5586 Vaar 01 Pauri 46 - So Tikka So Chattar In this recording of Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars Katha done by Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Maharaj you hear Sant ji tell sangat that Sri Chand (who is an udasi) told people not to bow (worship) to Satguru Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji Maharaj and instead worship at the monument i (Sri Chand) built for Sri Guru Nana Dev Ji Maharaj.

Our state of mind is such that we always try to find some excuse to not follow the commands of the Gurus. So some times we make one excuse other times another excuse. In Rehras Sahib it is written that our only Goal in taking human form is to follow Gurmat and worship Vaheguru. All other works/things are useless and worthless. This life is temporary and will not last long. When it is over we will regret why didn't we do more Naam Simran, Do more Paath, keep more Rehet. At that time all of our Sehs Sianap manmat thoughts which have guided us away from Gurmat will be no more. In the end only the commands we kept of the Guru will help the soul because in the end that is the only real Dhan(wealth). Sikhs who keep accumulating this wealth(of naam, simran, rehet) will go away from this world as spiritually rich people. Those who don't are Jamma da maal. Sometimes we come under the pressure of family, society, some special girl and don't want to keep our Kesh, but remember when your life is coming to an end and the terrifying Jamms come for you, your family, society and that girl because of whom you did not follow Gurmat will not come to your aid. At the time one greatly regrets why they abandoned Gurmat coming under worldly pressure.

no worries brother, sorry if my post sounded patronising. i appreciate your motives were totally genuines. ethanols ketones esters etc are all present in fruits , the volatile compounds are what our noses smell and give the fruits their 'fruity distinctive smells'. im a chemist by the way

Thanks veer.. I will also work try not to jump the gun next time.

ethanol is a 100% natural chemical found in trace amounts in apples grapes bananas etc, surely fermented alcoholic drinks which distort your mind are kurehts ? 0.01% are you serious, theres probably that amount in a single grape

Alright, sure I won't be 100% sure that these individuals were jeevan mukhat, but I have a great feeling that they were and vishwaash. I don't follow random babay and am cynical of most people now a days, but that doesn't take away from real sants. Sikhi has a great regard to not only doing Simran, but also taking action. Those who have done akaal chalaana have left their actions and examples here along with their katha and Budhi to help Sikhs understand Gurbani for themselves. Respect everyone, I agree, but that doesn't mean you accept made up history. I am not sure what your post is trying to say, are you saying that perhaps Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale wasn't a Sant and same with Bhai Gurdas Ji and thus they may be wrong about the Udhasian and somehow we aren't respecting Udhasian by rooting out the truth? I understand where you're coming from and I respect it, but I'm just wanting a clarification just for the record so we can get back to topic a.s.a.p. Also, your concept of what a Sant is perhaps may be a bit skewed if you ask me. Being a Sant and a Brahmgian is an avasta, not a power level that tells you whether someone else's power level is over or below 9,000. (at least in my opinion) Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale was a Sant Sipahi, there was no doubt about this, I don't need any philosophical debate about this, but there were traitors there and even Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale didn't have a scouter that separated those with bad intentions from those with good. Now a days you get people who use Sant in their name as some sort of title, but instead it should be vested upon the individual if the Khalsa Panth gives it to them. Just like how the Khalsa Panth bestowed the title of Sant to Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale.

I don't know if I agree with a few of the concepts you say, but overall yes a brahmgiani knows another brahmgiani which is why I don't believe people claiming so and so mahapursh travelling to so and so Gurudwara in so and so city in USA is a brahmgiani just because his followers say so. How do we know if someone is a Brahmgiani? The best way to know is those who live and die as GurSikhs. In hindsight i can say for sure that Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale was a true Sikh and Khalsa. Same with GurSikhs like Attar Singh Mastuane, Sant Isher Singh Rara Sahib Wale and so many more. ~~~ As for Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian Vaaran, although we disagree upon the point of whether or not Bhai Gurdas Ji Dian Vaaran contradict Gurbani, we can use it as a historical reference of someone who was a GurSikh around the times of the Gurus.

There is no contradiction between Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars and Gurbani. Bhai Gurdas Ji, Vaars are the key to understand Gurbani. No Gurmukh ever in history said Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars contradict Gurbani. Sant ji is not saying Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars are contradicting Gurbani. It's better you present the shabad from Gurbani, where you think Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaars contradict Gurbani.

http://www.manglacharan.com/2012/09/sarbloh-avatar-giving-updesh-to-indra.html

A post I made on another forum some time back: I'm not one to say someone is wrong, but Bhai Sahib Ji didn't account for this: "patala patal lakh agasa agas", "countless the worlds beneath, countless the worlds above" KMf pqwl AsMK mY gxq n hoeI ] kha(n)dd pathaal asa(n)kh mai ganath n hoee || There are countless worlds and nether regions; I cannot calculate their number.Guru Amar Daas Ji Raag Malaar 1283 There are other worlds that can have life, the power of Waheguru is infinite, no one can say anything definitely. Science can only begin to scratch the surface, but that doesn't make it wrong. This all comes back to evolution, one day Earth will cease to exist, somewhere else life may begin to form. The Universe is in the hukam of Waheguru and only Waheguru's hukam. Evolution is part of Waheguru's hukam. It is because of Waheguru the Universe is how it is and after time, beings that can meet Waheguru will automatically be formed.

Evolution is a fact. The reason why so many bacteria become resistant to various antibiotics and diseases become resistant to vaccines si because of evolution. It's simply how Waheguru creates the worlds and breaks them down. ~~~~~ hir Awpy pMc qqu ibsQwrw ivic DwqU pMc Awip pwvY ] har aapae pa(n)ch thath bisathhaaraa vich dhhaathoopa(n)ch aap paavai || The Lord Himself directs the evolution of the world of the five elements; He Himself infuses the five senses into it. ~~~~~

YOU WILL GO STRAIGHT TO HELL!!! NARAK!!! :biggrin2: Just joking.

I just want to say, this is beautiful -> The Sikhs believe in the evolution of the Soul and the principle of reincarnation. The soul is believed to be a tiny spark of God’s light "detached" from the Almighty. This spark is separated from God and wants to become pure so that it can "reunite" with God. For this to happen, the Soul has to evolve and purify itself so that this reunification with the Supreme Soul can take place. Thankyou for the link.

We have not just moderated but infact banned individuals very recently after they were reported for posting anti-Islamic hate comments. It depends on which posts of which users you reported. If this is what caused your tone to get hardened, then I don't think that is a good enough reason. Anyways, we will keep a look out for those who insult any faith as it goes against the rules of this forum. But since the mods cannot read every post in every thread, a lot of the responsibility is on users to report what they deem as offensive. Reported posts are always looked into, it just depends what is the nature of the post and if it really required to be reported in the first place. Don't find an excuse to justify your rude messages. And trust me, I wouldn't break my keyboard over an internet forum. I do have a life outside the Internet .

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji ki Fateh Please see my short article: Sikhs and the British: The Charter Act and the beginnings of the missionary movement. http://www.sikhscholar.co.uk/2012/09/sikhs-and-british-charter-act-and.html Feel free to pass to friends and post on Facebook and twitter. Please leave any feedback and comments on the post link. Follow me on twitter: gsmann_

I think so. I love his katha although I have a lot to listen to. He's a diamond that many people cherish, but at the same time even more people don't realize. There was no politics or hidden agenda, just pure GurSikhi katha according to Gurmat.

its always a weak translation or an anti islam this that the other. The fact is a large number of the practising members of islam dont have a very high degree of education for the women in eastern countries you have very little school education. The majority of islamic countries are very NON ACCOMODATING of other religions which is a joke considering they want bags of freedom to do as these please here! as mark twain said - no point debating with an <banned word filter activated> he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience!

In a spiritual sense, meat is not allowed because of daya, compassion. As someone previously posted, the human mind has evolved to understand compassion. Thats why we don't go barbarically killing our neighbors. For a Sikh the ultimate goal is to reach Waheguru. So in order to do that we need gunn (qualities). Gurbani says: ਵਿਣੁ ਗੁਣ ਕੀਤੇ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ Vin Gun Keethae Bhagath N Hoe || Without virtue, there is no devotional worship. from Jap Ji Sahib. If we are to go and kill and eat animals who feel pain which has been proven, then we cannot posses the Gun needed for Bhagati because the compassion isn't there. I don't want this to turn into a meat debate so I wont elaborate further. But as for your question that God gave us the ability to break down protiens why not use it, well God gave us Maya, God created ego, lust, emotional attachment, greed, and anger. But that doesn't mean use it. I will use an example of Islam, do not take it that I am attacking or anything just an example which will help understand. The Koran prohibits Muslims from eating pork. Why? Theres two answers given. Because Allah said so. And that pig is unhealthy for a human body due to the internal structures of the pig. I am not going to explain too much on why because you should know this. Well if we use your logic then shouldn't Muslims be allowed to eat pork because pork can be digested ? Meat of any sort is very very unhealthy for Human body not just Pork and bacon. Which is why Sikhs do not do anything which can cause harm to our body. Sikhism prohibiting meat does not contradict the idea that the Creator is perfect, therefore he created the body of the creation perfect. Its not a mistake we have hair in "unwanted" places.

Look here you sick example of an arrogant convert-seeking loser out to wage his cyber-Jihad on Sikhs...a.k.a Auzer Don't ignore my condition to discuss Sikhi by calling it retarded. Dhikr/Zikr is again Sufism, not mainstream Islam. One of my best friends was a Sufi and a regular practitioner of Zikr, and would in fact do "muraqbah", which I only later found out was the same as what Sikhs call Naam Abhiyaas (go read some books by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh ji). So quit lecturing me on how mainstream Islam preaches Zikr, it doesn't, although Sufism (the condemned shade of Islam as per mainstream fundamentalists) does. Did I burst your bubble? Are you waking up to the fact that you were following something wrong all along? And mark my words, I am not under any inferiority complex, not from some random convert-seeker like yourself. YOU are the one coming on a Sikh forum acting all scholarly and doesn't even possess a clear info on his own faith. Or did you read the wrong set of books this time? Don't keep whining again and again about "I never talked about Islam", "I never brought Islam into the discussion". You're not the first Muslim coming on here with proselytizing intentions. There have been scores like you under different disguises in the past. All met their fate ultimately, and your time is coming sooner than you can imagine. Did you bother reading any of the links I sent earlier? I started an entire thread with links for you to break your head over, you done already? Here it is: http://www.sikhsanga...__fromsearch__1 . I know you love to read but even you can't read that much material in a few hours. You seem to have some sort of superiority complex (or rather paranoia) about being "well-read" it seems. Were you raised to believe that all Sikhs are illiterate fools? Because I've seen this trait in many Paki-Punjabis, even though they never made it past high school themselves. Every now and then it reflects in your posts "we have all studied biology, well I hope lol". Who you think you are?Pakistani version of Einstein? Ok, so you want a mature post, right? Here is my response to your original question. There is enough scientific research done to prove that our teeth are made to be herbivorous. Now since you say you're very well-informed, lets presume you're right. Perhaps we do have a built-in feature that can eat/digest meat as well. But we also have a built-in animal instinct that brings forth the brute force to kill another human being and eat him/her up as well. Why did God give us that sort of strength? God gives us things for a reason, so do we start preying on other human beings? Just because we have this kind of feature in us (according to you), doesn't mean we become the judges on how its to be used. Bhagat Kabeer jee here considers killing any living being as unrighteous action. Some who eat favor meat eating go ahead and ask "what about plants?" That is another topic which I don't want to divulge into as it would break out into a meat debate (something the Sikhsangat.com rules and guidelines don't really gel with). Well known scholars like Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha have translated bẖāʼng as meat, although some other scholars are content is accepting its translation as the regular "bhang" drink. There is a detailed discussion on what you're looking for over here: Hope that helps. Let us know if it doesn't, and your next question/thread will be awaited.

Wow

India didn't break East Pakistan, West Pakistan did, when it tried to force its culture and language on a people that clearly didn't want it. It wasnt the Indians that did this, nor did the indians treat them cruelly, or rape their women. Pakistan does not really maintain these with respect, it just does it as a gesture to pi$$ off the indians. If Pakistan did respect all the historic Sikh sites, then it wouldnt have allowed them to be turned into mosques/schools etc or allow them to be demolished or run down. The land of these Gurdwaras has been whittled away by pakistanis, but the govt has done nothing to prevent it, nor will it do anything to recover those lands for the Sikhs. You know something that is really funny? the muslims said pre 47, that Nankana Sahib was as dear to them as it was to the Sikhs, when the Sikhs protested that we cant leave Nankana Sahib in another country, and the british beleived them, and as soon as partition was announced the muslims with the aid of the baloch military attacked Nankana Sahib and shot down thousands of Sikhs in the city and also the Gurdwara. Respect does not come through mere words.

Dancing is against Gurmat. Guruka Singh is completely speaking from a manmat view point. He has not even asked Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, if he is allowed to dance. There is one shabad by Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj that clears this topic up in a split second. Today we are so blessed to have Gurbani at our finger tips. But how many people ask Satguru what they can and can't do. Yes when it comes to recieving what people want, then they run to the Gurdwara and ask the Granthi Singh to do Ardas for them and they even go to the extent of opening many Akhand Paaths, so that their desires are fullfilled. Then they tell there family and friends....we have taken all alcohol and meat and lustful music out of the house like the Granthi Singh has advised. We keep total respect for Maharaj as we need something from Maharaj. Now many people dance. How many of these people sat down and asked Satguru can you tell me if dancing is alright with you? I need this information because my mind, body, and soul is burning to get your darshan. You know what these same people say who were begging just two seconds ago from Maharaj (these people put on the biggest show infront of Maharaj...........really funny to watch their fake but good acting melt downs)................we don't need to be told what we can and can't do........what is wrong with dancing....Sikhi is not black and white.....Sikhi is tanned like me..........who said you are the authority of who can and can't dance................look in Gurbani the word dance comes up so that means we can dance...............I know a Sikh with Pugg who dance all the time........so we can dance........you can't tell us to stop. They forget just two seconds ago when they were in complete pain they were asking for guidance from Maharaj. But once they got what they needed they tell Maharaj, you can take the back seat..........me and miss pooja are going to dance the night away. So yes pain is the medicine and pleasure is the disease. These people like to dance when they are in the most happiest moods.............they forget all about Maharaj, then Maharaj doesn't exist and there is no need to do Ardas or Akhand Paath because Akhand Paaths and Ardas are only made to be done when we need something from Maharaj...........these events are for sad days in our lives. Don't you know how sad of a paath Sri Anand Sahib is.............so so sad paath. And Ardas....first half of Chandi Di Vaar..........it is full of sad feeling....so we do when we are sad and Maharaj bless us with what we want and then we get happy.............. Anyways....i though i start the post off with some sarcasm..........Guruka Singh did it.....why cant i do it. The Shabad i am about to post needs to be understood by listening to a Gurmukh explain the shabad. If you sit there and try to understand the shabad you might get the meaning of it, but most likely you will end up like the Akhand Paath and Ardas people.....I know Sikh with Pugg who dance....so i dance.....he in mirror every morning :biggrin2: Just in case some of you take my sarcasm as an insult.............i apologize in advance. I am very sorry, but the sarcasm serves a purpose....bit of humour to get the message across....hey!!! :biggrin2: It's a Canadian thing. ਆਸਾ ॥ आसा महला १ ॥ Āsā mėhlā 1. Aasaa, First Mehl: ਵਾਜਾ ॥ वाजा मति पखावजु भाउ ॥ vājā maṯ pakẖāvaj bẖā▫o. Make your intellect your instrument, and love your tambourine; ਹੋਇ ॥ होइ अनंदु सदा मनि चाउ ॥ Ho▫e anand saḏā man cẖā▫o. thus bliss and lasting pleasure shall be produced in your mind. ਏਹਾ ॥ एहा भगति एहो तप ताउ ॥ Ėhā bẖagaṯ eho ṯap ṯā▫o. This is devotional worship, and this is the practice of penance. ਇਤੁ ॥੧॥ इतु रंगि नाचहु रखि रखि पाउ ॥१॥ Iṯ rang nācẖahu rakẖ rakẖ pā▫o. ||1|| So dance in this love, and keep the beat with your feet. ||1|| ਪੂਰੇ ॥ पूरे ताल जाणै सालाह ॥ Pūre ṯāl jāṇai sālāh. Know that the perfect beat is the Praise of the Lord; ਹੋਰੁ ॥ होरु नचणा खुसीआ मन माह ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Hor nacẖṇā kẖusī▫ā man māh. ||1|| rahā▫o. other dances produce only temporary pleasure in the mind. ||1||Pause|| ਸਤੁ ॥ सतु संतोखु वजहि दुइ ताल ॥ Saṯ sanṯokẖ vajėh ḏu▫e ṯāl. Play the two cymbals of truth and contentment. ਪੈਰੀ ॥ पैरी वाजा सदा निहाल ॥ Pairī vājā saḏā nihāl. Let your ankle bells be the lasting Vision of the Lord. ਰਾਗੁ ॥ रागु नादु नही दूजा भाउ ॥ Rāg nāḏ nahī ḏūjā bẖā▫o. Let your harmony and music be the elimination of duality. ਇਤੁ ॥੨॥ इतु रंगि नाचहु रखि रखि पाउ ॥२॥ Iṯ rang nācẖahu rakẖ rakẖ pā▫o. ||2|| So dance in this love, and keep the beat with your feet. ||2|| ਭਉ ॥ भउ फेरी होवै मन चीति ॥ Bẖa▫o ferī hovai man cẖīṯ. Let the fear of God within your heart and mind be your spinning dance, ਬਹਦਿਆ ॥ बहदिआ उठदिआ नीता नीति ॥ Bahḏi▫ā uṯẖ▫ḏi▫ā nīṯā nīṯ. and keep up, whether sitting or standing. ਲੇਟਣਿ ॥ लेटणि लेटि जाणै तनु सुआहु ॥ Letaṇ let jāṇai ṯan su▫āhu. To roll around in the dust is to know that the body is only ashes. ਇਤੁ ॥੩॥ इतु रंगि नाचहु रखि रखि पाउ ॥३॥ Iṯ rang nācẖahu rakẖ rakẖ pā▫o. ||3|| So dance in this love, and keep the beat with your feet. ||3|| ਸਿਖ ॥ सिख सभा दीखिआ का भाउ ॥ Sikẖ sabẖā ḏīkẖi▫ā kā bẖā▫o. Keep the company of the disciples, the students who love the teachings. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ॥ गुरमुखि सुणणा साचा नाउ ॥ Gurmukẖ suṇ▫ṇā sācẖā nā▫o. As Gurmukh, listen to the True Name. ਨਾਨਕ ॥ नानक आखणु वेरा वेर ॥ Nānak ākẖaṇ verā ver. O Nanak, chant it, over and over again. <a class="dict" href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਇਤੁ">ਇਤੁ ਰੰਗਿ ਨਾਚਹੁ ਰਖਿ ਰਖਿ ਪੈਰ ॥੪॥੬॥ इतु रंगि नाचहु रखि रखि पैर ॥४॥६॥ Iṯ rang nācẖahu rakẖ rakẖ pair. ||4||6|| So dance in this love, and keep the beat with your feet. ||4||6|| ang 350 Raag Aasaa--Ang-350 Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Maharaj katha on the above shabad....enjoy......share and contemplate.

guys more replies please, i wanna be inspired by those that already inspired. man thse posts so far r amazing!!!!!!! :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: dont be shy......... Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh