Leaderboard

If we can lobby the 1984 Sikh genocide with both the 2002 Muslim genocide of Gujarat and 2007 killings of Christians in Orrissa, we will have a formidable force that would be strong enough to represent all of the oppressed minorities in India. It would be a matter of meeting with them, gathering and sharing evidence (audio, video, transcripts etc.) which will build up a phenominal case for the whole world to see.

its a type of food, a gift from the guru to you. anyone can eat it, babies and old people with no teeth and people with teeth. it tastes nice and it has path done on it so its blessed food. i think guru gobind singh gave the recipe and it shows guru's kirpa and that everything we receive in life is sweet to us because it comes from the Guru.

Absolutely spot on! Singhs and Kaurs, you may not like it but it is the brutal truth. Start at the more simple things about the spirituality of the religion rather than all the political, rehat subjects etc. One singh I knew at uni didn't even know if we believe in reincarnation, yet he knew so much about 1984 etc! I got hated for saying stuff like this at my sikh society as every talker and organiser was hell bent in trying to jump to subjects such as rehat (dastars etc), and 1984 (not saying we shouldn't talk about it at all but maybe there are better places to start?). Rather, they should have started by talking about things like 'who is God, what is the soul, why are we reincarnated etc'. For me, I see this is one of the major reasons for these statistics. Young kids are brought up wearing dastars and are scolded by their parents for wanting to cut their kesh, but they were never told why they are supposed to keep the kesh in the first place! What do you expect? Saying because Guru Ji told us to is not sufficient enough. It should be sufficient but it is not, unless there is alot of love and faith in the Guru already. So we have to explain the reasons and lucky enough, our Gurus based rehat on pure logic, so we should teach our kids this logic to the best level as we possibly can.

vaah vaaah Vaaaah! Dhan Dhan Sri Dasam Granth Sahib

i heard it is to be given after hukamnama as a symbol of acceptting the divine will

You will know this Gurdwara Veer Ji. It might be a slightly derogatory term but i wouldnt go as far as to say its disgusting. He could have said much worse. Veer Ji, its a number of reasons. Both sides are to blame. Some dont necessarily convert, rather they think Sikhi permits you to marry someone from another religion. But brainwashing is a problem and when you see examples that are closer to you, even if you only just know of that person you will end up taking it very personally. Sometimes its as if its been done to cause the maximum amount of parishaani. The caste thing is also another problem, no matter how much you ask oldies "are all castes equal?", when it comes to marrying someone from one of those castes, its a big no no. A lot, not all but a lot of Hindu-Sikh marriages are down to the fact that parents know that their kids might end up in a relationship with someone from any religion and so they say even if the boy/girl is from a Hindu background its ok, they wont have a problem, its still seen as acceptable. Ive actually had this said to me. Its funny, if you marry a Sikh they must be the same caste but another religion then Hindu is ok. The other issue is people just assume Sikhi is "modern" without really knowing anything, so again, they think it permits any number of things. Ive heard people say Gurdwaras arent doing this or that to teach young people but its not all up to the Gurdwara, education starts at home. This is another problem, many parents emigrated whilst they were young themselves so they have very little knowledge of anything Sikhi related. In these cases its only with Guru Sahibs Kirpa the children of these individuals will take the decision whether or not to learn about Sikhi themselves. The other two reasons are pure stupidity and religion/history/culture just not having any value....pure ignorance and way way too balaiti-fied. In all honesty i cannot pinpoint where we have gone wrong. We need to think about the way we teach each other, not how Uncle Ji or Gyani Ji teaches us but how are we teaching and treating our peers, i know many feel alienated by those who might be further along their spiritual journey not having any patience, enough to put them off. Having said that though, so much absolutely brilliant seva is being done to bring Sikhi not just to the youth but everyone. Back to us teaching eachtother, the point where teaching about Sikhi begins isnt right IMO, for example i would leave the political side out until the essence of Sikhi is taught otherwise how will one truly appreciate what cause he/she is fighting for and/or their passion for that cause will die. Maybe leave the political/rehat/bibek type things and maybe the Shaheedi/yudh stories out until they understand where Sikhi stands spiritually. This is where we might be going wrong, the one teaching gets annoyed due to lack of understanding and inability of the one who is learning to digest all these random things which mean nothing as he/she doesnt understand the point and significance of them because theres no understanding of the theological aspect, hence, they are put off or get the wrong idea which in turn distances them from anything Dharmik. Also we should leave out our views on Raag/Larivaar/Jathebandian etc! At least at the beginning! Anyway this what i have observed from my own experiences and its also a benti to those who are more inclined to teach others and have more influence. :respect: Phul Chuk Maaf.

The Panj Pyare from who Harpreet took Amrit can't be blamed if she wasn't strong enough within herself, surely? That just seems like a complete insult to the Panj Pyare! It completely negates the need for taking responsibility for your own actions when a mistake is made. If this belief becomes mainstream then you'll have young Singhs and Singhnis exclaiming "Oh, the Panj Pyareh that administered Amrit to me had low kamai so that's why I messed up". That's a very, very dangerous precedent to set. Educate me, bro, on how this concept works. It's the first time I've encountered such a theory, although I can trace the logic behind it I'm rather surprised at your insistence at it being the root reason the OP did wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong. You're clearly blessed with immense knowledge; shower some on us mortals! :biggrin2:

Here is another book I found online a while ago and had another veerji check it out briefly and said he thought its pretty good. Sikh Religion and Science.pdf

As i said this earlier in the radhaswami thread: I usually like to look at the root of problem. The reason why people are going more towards other pseudo cults like radhaswamis or going away from sikhi is because lack of spirituality offered in gurdwaras and bhramvidya in the panth as i posted earlier - http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/67189-lack-of-bhramvidya-in-the-panth/ ..it's replaced by bhandi parchar - abhramic version of Vahiguroo/God, rational, missionary, bhausari thought which shoved sikhi in a tunnel. This is single handly an number one cause of people are swaying away from sikhi because of our parcharaiks and parchar. While political activism is good and have very special place in sikhi as dharam and rajneeti are not seperated they are together. I feel we have gone way overboard with political activism in gurdwaras to the point that we have forgotten spiritual sikhi (adhyatamic sikhi- sant aspect in panth) which is main layer of one's life. It's from sant aspect of one's life(dya, bhramgyan, sam dristhi, satogun) sipahi is born not the other way around..as i mentioned earlier - sipahi spirit in sikhi should be born, properly controlled, preserved and nurture from sant spirit not from sheer tamogun..sheer tamogun makes one rakshash and khalsa is not rakshash.!! Anyway, parchariks have gone way overboard with doing parchar of sipahi aspect in sikhi i.e - dhaadi varan/katha of our warriors, our guru sahiban..showing only one aspect- sipahi aspect of our guru sahib- For eg- Potral of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji as only an warrior, not divine majestic master and giver to people from all walks of life..there were reasons why there are 52 poets in guru maharaj darbar, there was reason why guru gobind singh maharaj was divine master and giver of raag vidya to all, there was a reason why guru gobind singh maharaj created taksal , nirmale, sevapanthis (scholary knights in the sikhism), there was a reason why sri guru gobind singh ji wrote majestic gurbani in true poetic form such as - jaap sahib, sri akaal ustat showing sargun and nirgun beauty of Vahiguroo and there was a reason why bhai nand lal wrote deep spiritual craving poetry towards majestic divine sri guru gobind singh ji so our pendu bandai don't potray sri guru gobind singh according to their own mindset and according to their own little tunnel version of sikhi..!!..but everything happened opposite in the panth..!! We didn't even get the basic and extremely important matter right. We failed to provide theological explanation of what is Vahiguroo in Sikhism and let alone mystic layer of sikhi. Most of our parcharaik(missionary etc type) have used abrahamic, semetic version of god in Sikhism to explain Vahiguroo...people need to do their own research on sargun nirgun aspect of vahiguroo (this is what most sikh theology is based on)..On this forum we had a deep vichar with bijla singh ji on it - http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/66285-sargun-nirgun-nirankar/ ..people can read upon it and do their own search..!! There is no bar set for our parcharaiks in the gurwdaras. So any joe blow comes along do parchar with their own mindset/bibek buddhi to make a quick buck. Gyani thakur singh ji patialawale himself said in japji sahib katha that i can go deep but people who are listening are complaining that there is no bir ras in the katha, even sangata are addicted to bir ras katha which are being feed everyday in the gurdwara without keeping balance. The reason our people are attracted to radhaswamis or going away from sikhi is our parcharik fault and our fault of failing to demand some depth- ask parcharak questions, ask committe vales collectively as sangat to have question and answers sessions with our parcharaiks..radhaswamis steal stuff from our mystic traditions and mix it little bit brand it and present to normal joe with fancy terms- normal joe blow gets totally blown off with mysticism..while radhaswamis steal stuff from our mystic tradition/layer our parcharaiks are still stuck at the shariat layer of dharam and feed shariat layer of dharam all day long without going to depth to sangat. Normal joe in sangat thinks with ignorance- looks like this is sikhi and search somewhere else to fulfill their curiosity or get peace. Our parchariks have shoved sikhi in a tunnel and bought beautiful divine path of sikhi down to mere "dhadi varan, sakhiyas', sikhitothemax translations' Ang- 1083 saraa sareeath lae ka(n)maavahu || Let your practice be to live the spiritual life. thareekath tharak khoj ttolaavahu || Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God. maarafath man maarahu abadhaalaa milahu hakeekath jith fir n maraa ||3|| Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again Sorry don't want make this too long, each one of us and parcharak have moral and spiritual duty to explore sikh deep within both internally and externally. In Akaal ustat-

Well yeah it is the wedding bani, but i have heard the bhoot thing before.

Has anyone met the families of these girls? I am curious to know why they would do something like this. If 15 Sikh girls converted in 2 months, what is the reason behind it? Did they get brainwashed? Didn't their parents teach them about Sikhi? Oh wait, were they discriminated against in case they belonged to one of the so-called "lower castes" ? No hang on, before attacking me, just realize that I am just trying to storm my brains ( ) with all possible causes and reasons for this occurrence. What is the real problem? Where have we failed? If it was a few Sikh girls, one could imagine that something was up with them. But 15 ?!?!?! And in just 2 months ?!?!?!?! What is it that they were not getting here and will get there is my question. 40% inter-faith marriages, why? Is it because the Gyani was paid a big sum of money to do so? Isn't the committee paying him well enough already? Didn't they pay for his kids education, or did they say "tusi ki karna paddhaai ke, tusi vi vaaja hee vajouna" ? Sorry but this does happen guys. 4 Sikh girls marrying Muslims, bloody hell, howcome!!!! Its not possible that those guys treated them with more respect than a Singh would, or is it? Wait, they all got tricked and brainwashed into believing that Islam is the best!!!! The parents never taught them about the Shaheeds!!! (etc. etc. etc all that I've been reading on here for 9 plus years). Sorry for playing the devil's advocate here, but just wanted to take a different approach for a change. Think about it guys. If our brothers and sisters are leaving Sikhi, lets not (as usual) blame the others. Lets introspect as to what WE are doing wrong. I am NOT saying anything is wrong about Sikhi, but possibly a handful of Sikhs. I don't want to start about what the caste cancer has done to us, you already know it. I am not going to start about what kind of Gurdwara committees we have these days, you already know it. I am not going to start about the tactics Muslims use, you already know it. My question (similar to one I asked a few months ago: http://www.sikhsanga...uk/#entry537429 ) is what now? Where have we gone wrong? Why did we treat some of our own the same way they were treated for centuries by the "casteist elitists"? Don't shoot me, I am just asking questions, please respond if you have answers otherwise don't bother hitting the "Add Reply". Its ok to type your rant and then close the window. I do it at times when I know the post will get "unapproved" :D .

A Candle in the Dark – An Exhibition of Sikh History The National Sikh Youth Federation will on 30 October launch in the UK Parliament an exhibition of Sikh history. This exhibition will showcase how, in the context of Sikh history, Guru Nanak’s mission to build a truly utopian society encountered violent opposition. We will take you on a journey through the challenges we have faced from the beginnings of the Sikh Way, right up to the shocking events of our recent history, the Delhi Genocide of November 1984. This exhibition is being launched to commemorate the atrocities of the Delhi genocide in November 1984. An estimated 30,000 Sikhs were killed in an orchestrated and premeditated attack aiming to vanquish enduring proponents of Guru Nanak’s ideology; who did not succumb to the atrocities of the attack on Amritsar (Operation Blue Star) and the purge of Sikh youth in Operation Woodrose. This will be a national exhibition, which will tour the United Kingdom for 6-8 weeks with venues currently booked in: London 31st Oct – 4th Nov Midlands 8th Nov – 11th Nov Leeds 15th Nov – 18th Nov Glasgow 22nd Nov – 25th Nov Cardiff 29th Nov – 2nd Dec

With Guru Maharaj's Apaar Kirpa the Akal Design team is proud to announce iGurbani for iOS devices. This app requires no internet connection and contains all of the Sikh Scriptures. The focus of this app is to allow the user to accurately read the shabads from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji following a revolutionary style of showing the vishraams. Instead of commas and other punctuation the vishraams are highlighed in a specific color. PLEASE NOTE: Since the Gurmukhi is from a new source and the database has been rebuilt from the ground up there are some errors that we could not catch during development. We are going to rely on the Sangat to help us identify and correct those errors. Scriptures 1. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 2. Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji 3. Bhai Gurdas Ji Vaaran 4. Bhai Nand Lal Ji Translations ENGLISH - Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa - Bhai Manmohan Singh Ji OTHER TRANSLATIONS - SGGS Darpan (Prof. Sahib Singh Ji) - Bhai Manmohan Singh Ji - Faridkot Teeka VISHRAAM - Baba Darshan Singh Ji (Mallehwal) - Baba Jaswant Singh (Bhagat Ji) For more information please visit http://www.igurbani.com/about. CURRENT STATUS: The app has been submitted to the Apple App Store and is currently Waiting for Review.

That's like the mongolian lifestyle. It was freezing and intense heat so whatever didn't kill them made them stronger. Just to live in the environment they were warriors in they had to survive the harsh extreme cold/heat. Tu rehndey ohthay retirement karan nu haha. I live in an area that is similar to that, but not at that elevation and is a valley.

Can someone answer this :D

I have also learned something from this post, so thankuji to ScottishSingh for asking this question. Found some info on the net: It consists of the following in equal parts: Butter, Sugar, Flour The significance of it is: Sweetness - The sugar shows the sweetness of the Guru Butter - Shows the richness of the Guru Flour - Shows the intricate detail and in depth meaning of the Guru [small particles of flour, grains]. Everyone receives this in equal parts, this shows that everyone is equal in the eyes of Waheguru [GOD] and the Guru. understood and experienced as a blessing from the Guru and should not be refused. Those who prepare it bathe beforehand and recite hymns from the Guru Granth Sahib as they make it. When cooked, it is covered with a white cloth which is sprinkled with water as a symbol of cleanliness. It is then placed near the Guru Granth Sahib. During the Ardas at the end of worship it is stirred with a small kirpan(sword). It is then given to all who are present as a sign of their equality and unity. Offering kara parshad also makes sure that no one leaves the Guru's presence empty handed. The recipe was given by Guru Gobind Singh and the experience of receiving the Guru's Parshad is a reminder that all blessings come by Guru's kirpa (grace) and that everything we receive in life is sweet to us because it comes from the Guru. As a sign of humility and respect, visitors accept the Karah Parshad sitting, with hands raised and cupped. The offering and receiving of this food is a vital part of hospitality protocols. It has the same amount of semolina butter and sugar, which is to show the equalities of men and women. Ask the Sewadar to give you a very small amount of “Parshad”– Say “very small portion” (or "sa-vah-yah") to the Sewadar (volunteer) as the approaches you and before you put up your cupped hands, if u cannot manage to eat normal portion. Do not refuse it or throw it away as this is considered disrespectful to the Guru. I didn't know about the last bit, and have in the past refused parshad sometimes, how would that affect me?

Consciousness You are crazy, for sure. Although I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, the WAY you say it, is hilarious. Yes I too believe that the Faridkot Teekha has a lot of Sanatan Mat in it, that does not mean you just throw the entire teekha out. Take what you can from it, compare it contrast. This goes for all your posts, not just this one. From your posts it seems like you are a young and eager Jatha Singh. Or perhaps you are older but just immature or have some "issues". As a Singh I am telling you to please shut up and stop embarrassing the Jatha.

I dont think anything is by Consciousness Veer Jis standards! :lol2:

There are many Sikh kids that get ridiculed and made fun of at school all the time by fellow student. This teacher should have been more sensitive. Distinguishing someone with the "topknot" comment is offensive. Would she call a muslim student "the girl with the hijab" amongst 200 other students?

Isn't it time to get out of our enslaved mentality and stop referring June 84 as Operation Bluestar? Operation Bluestar was the name given by the attackers so why do we (Sikhs) still use that reference...I personally believe that as a kaum we should be referring to the attack as the Battle of Amritsar 1984.

Lets all get together online and come up with recommendation to start pursuing sikh websites online with adapt new title regards to 1984 operation blue star 1. Lets compile collective brief informative/convincing template email outlining the importance of having right name in reference 1984 struggle so it aligns with our sikh history, sikh principle - fighting against oppression, human rights, injustice for all. 2. Prioritize high value sikh websites first for maximum impact- pursuing/create petition(last resort) high value sikh websites such as- sikhs.org, sikh-history.com, sikh wikipedia- , sikhnet ...follow google search results- whatever website comes on google with key word- sikhs, sikhism etc- email their web-masters with convincing email template. 3. Send the same template all across the sikh world online including gurdwara's website webmaster emails etc. I think if we can bring positive results in the name change campaign results online- all major sikh websites collectively agree with adapt new name for 1984 operation blue star..it would be great start...slowly it would become an trend and would go in sikh history books..!!!!!!!!!!! Never give up guys, as i keep saying- roman umpire was not built in one day..!!

^^^ Thanks

@ Mehtab Singh Ji - In my opinion I think the reason for those conversions are less of a reflection on anything lacking in Sikhi (conceptually), but simply more about certain females deciding their relationship with a Muslim lad is of a higher priority to them than any loose connection they have with their faith. "Love" if you want it summed up in a word. :biggrin2:

Some interesting points there. You mention that there must be something we should do, but from what I have seen there are 3 types of Sikhs, The Amritdharis, who are all Sikhi, the middle ground, who have Kesh or not in some cases, but have a pyaar for Sikhi, go to camps, know about the Shaheeds etc, and then theres the ones who dont know at all, and are just Sikh by name. Its usually the 3rd set that are usually the ones marrying a muslim or whoever. These are the people we need to connect with, we cant by force take them Gurdwara, or make them go camps etc. We cant go to their parents and them them off, but then we cant sit idly by and watch them go drinking clubbing and falling for the wrong type. We need to find a way to get them into Sikhi or at least know enough values to know that they respect it enough not to go marrying outside Sikhi. Phul Chuk Maaf

Why did Avjit Singh kill Sargun Ragi???? Recently there has been news all around about the death of Avjit Singh and Sargun Ragi. All news headlines on the basis of court reports have portrayed Avjit Singh in a negative manner. However what was the story behind Avjit Singh’s mind and why he did that. Avjit Singh had been living in Australia for more than seven years now. Among his friends circle, he was known as a very jolly, honest, peaceful and innocent person. He was also known to be very kind at heart and was always willing to help people in need. His life turned by 180 degrees after his marriage with Sargun Ragi in mid 2011. Soon after hismarriage, it was found that she had extra-marital affairs in India only. Even Sargun’s parents were not happy with her character; however she pleaded guilty before her husband when it was discovered that she didn’t possess good character. She made promises to her innocent husband that she will not bring anyone else anymore in her life and also took oaths on the name of God. Avjit and his family trusted her and thought that she might change after reaching Australia. But none of them knew that she was playing bogus games with them. Anyways she came to Australia and started living with her husband. One day her husband came back from work earlier and he found his wife in an objectionable condition with one of his friends at his own home. In a shocking, angry and embarrassing condition, Avjit Singh did slap and beat her wife. However once again her wife pleaded guilty before him and told him that she won’t repeat it and she herself asked Avjit Singh to lock her in the house and take keys with himself and she will stay all day at home. Avjit Singh gave her another chance in the hope of survival of his married relation. But his hopes shattered within a week only when one day he came back from work and found her wife missing in the home. He immediately called his friend in Canberra to seek his advice for next steps who advised him to report to the police about this. He went to the nearby police station and then found that she was actually in the neighbour’s home and she instead reported that Avjit Singh had locked her and wasn’t treating her well. Everyone knows that in any country, it’s usually woman, who is heard and the same happened with Avjit Singh. His wife got intervention orders from court and she was permitted to live in the house alone while Avjit Singh will need to leave the place. After leaving the home, soon Avjit Singh found that Sargun was not even living in that home anymore and was instead living with his next door neighbour with whom she had maintained relations as well. Avjit Singh went back to court and asked for permission to stay in that home as his wife was not living there any more so that he doesn’t have to pay rent at two places. Court accepted his request and gave him permission to stay in the original home. Avjit Singh was not anymore in control of his mind and he was feeling angry, fuming, heated and revengeful towards his wife. So in his mind, he was just searching for the whereabouts of Sargun Ragi. And when he found her address, from there everyone knows what happened as per various news sources. What Avjit Singh could have done instead? Avjit Singh’s wife was on a spouse visa and as per Australian immigration policy; she needed to spend at least two years in Australia with sponsorship from her husband to continue staying. Avjit could have actually taken away his sponsorship and should have sent her back to India and thus could have saved two lives. He should have ended his marriage relation with her in a legal way instead of killing her and then suiciding himself. He has now left behind his old parents and a young sister. His family is not very much financially strong as well and he was thier only hope for survival at this old age and from financial perspective as well.......God bless his soul and help his parents to face and survive his loss.

Waheguru! Thanks for sharing the video, Bhaji!

What also is worrying is the disgusting language being used by the original poster to describe our Muslim brothers. It shows only ignorance and nothing else.

Now since we have wider agreement on this forum regarding label operation bluestar something real and align with sikh historical moments of darbar sahib being attacked i.e- battle of amritsar/seige of amritsar. How do we go about convincing our leaders in India to endorse this title and write a new chapter in sikh ithas/history. Any ideas? I think only solution to this problem is youths/NRI sikh youths standing up for election in SGPC seats so that we can have our say..otherwise all these suggestions will be - fell on deaf ears to our leaders. This will be hard task but don't loose hopes guys- roman empire wasn't built in one day...!!!!

Operation is for those who considered our Singhs as tumors. We don't, so for us its Ghallughara.

The historical relevance of June 84 and November 84 is entirely different for us. We do not benefit our community with an appreciation of the intensity and effect that 1984 really has on Sikhs by using the references and narratives given by the architects of the operations. In the words of Joyce Pettigrew, "The sacrifice of Bhindranwale's life and that of his followers drew attention to the fact that Sikhs live by a model of society opposed to that for which India stood. They were slaughtered in defense of their conception of what society should be." http://www.sikh24.co...r/#.UIUFCW-dMzw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFoWvv7Sqoc

and to the serious point aasaa mehalaa 5 || bhee paraapath maanukh dhaehureeaa || gobi(n)dh milan kee eih thaeree bareeaa || avar kaaj thaerai kithai n kaam || mil saadhhasa(n)gath bhaj kaeval naam ||1|| sara(n)jaam laag bhavajal tharan kai || janam brithhaa jaath ra(n)g maaeiaa kai ||1|| rehaao || jap thap sa(n)jam dhharam n kamaaeiaa || saevaa saadhh n jaaniaa har raaeiaa || kahu naanak ham neech kara(n)maa || saran parae kee raakhahu saramaa ||2||4|| Aasaa, Fifth Mehla: This human body has been given to you. This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe. Nothing else will work. Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; vibrate and meditate on the Jewel of the Naam. ||1|| Make every effort to cross over this terrifying world-ocean. You are squandering this life uselessly in the love of Maya. ||1||Pause|| I have not practiced meditation, self-discipline, self-restraint or righteous living. I have not served the Holy; I have not acknowledged the Lord, my King. Says Nanak, my actions are contemptible! O Lord, I seek Your Sanctuary; please, preserve my honor! ||2||4|| YOU READ IT EVERY DAY!!!

I would think the Mool Mantar. Start from the beginning! :biggrin2:

I suppose think link can help in understanding what our body is actually made up of. http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/articles/id/spiritualresearch/spiritualscience/what-are-humans-comprised-of The gist of it is: "A living person is made up of the following bodies. The Physical Body The Vital Energy Body (Praan-deha) The Mental Body (Mano-deha) The Intellect Body or Causal body (Kaarana-deha) The Subtle Ego or Supracausal body (Mahaakaarana-deha) The Soul or the God Principle in each of us (Aatma)" The answer to how the body works lies in the fourth point of the article: " 4. The Vital Energy Body This is the body also known as the Praandeha. This body provides the vital, life sustaining energy for all the functions of the physical as well as the mental body. There are five types of vital energies or praana: Praana: Energy for the activity of inhalation. Udaana: Energy for the activity of exhalation and speech. Samaana: Energy for the activity of the stomach and intestines. Vyaana: Energy for voluntary and involuntary movements of the body. Apaana: Energy for urination, excretion, ejaculation, childbirth, etc. At the time of death the vital energy is released back into the Universe and also helps in propelling the subtle body in its onward journey." So, countless cells come together to form different organs and thus the physical body. But it's not the different souls that make the cells work, rather the energy from the Vital body. In my opinion, bacteria and other micro-organisms are 'beings' on their own and do not come together to form organs for some other 'being'. Therefore, they have their own souls. (My opinion...I have nothing to back this). Regarding the soul entering the foetus: http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/articles/id/spiritualresearch/spiritualscience/lifebeforebirth/lifeinthewomb "2.2.3 When does the subtle body actually enter the foetus? At the point in time of conception, as explained earlier, the subtle body knows that a certain zygote has been earmarked for him. During the first three months of pregnancy, the subtle body is mostly in the subtle region where it came from and may or may not frequent the womb. After the third month however the subtle body is more likely to reside in the womb. The time of entry in the womb may vary from subtle body to subtle body. This time of entry is generally after the third month but can extend right up to the 7th month. The more earthbound the subtle body the sooner it takes its place in the womb. " P.S. I know the site I've mentioned isn't entirely Gurmat...or sikhi-based....But I haven't seen any other site that explains such stuff in such detail and with diagrams etc.

I've always considered this situation from a different point of view, and one that might get eyes rolling upwards but I consider to be as valid as the points identified above. Note, I am only referring to the issue of Sikh females and Islamic conversion. From a theological point of view, is it impossible to disagree with the fact that one of the major contributing factors to the formation of the Sikh faith was the unimaginable horrors being meted out to the people of India at the hands of the Islamic Mughal empire? Of course, there are other contributing factors which necessitated the need for Sikhi, i.e. the societal injustices and general irreligious practices rampant throughout Indian society perpetrated by the followers of the Hindu faith, and, you might argue, the anti-religion, anti-spiritual and anti-equality ideological and theological philosophies at the heart of Hindu scripture. But let's return to the Islamic problem. Whilst it is accurate to state that one cannot tarnish a whole race or religion of people due to the actions of it's leadership and select group of its followers, it is worth bearing in the mind that if God (and this is where I suspect eyes will begin to roll) had wanted us to remain as Hindus or convert to Islam, he would not have deemed it, in his infinite wisdom, necessary for the Sikh faith to come into existence. So, depending on your adherence to and understanding of the Divine, you can argue that Sikhi was a gift that many, many people found something of worth contained within it's doctrines - even as early as the years in which Guru Nanak Paatshah existed. Therefore it is not unreasonable to assume that those early followers who embraced Sikhi, as well as those who began to be gradually born into the faith, were being viciously assailed by two equally determined yet decidely different forces. The first being Indian / Hindu society and its thousands of years old traditions and culture which were the first obstacle for any Sikh wishing to practice his or her faith. These traditions were not external influences but issues which you'd find in the home, amongst one's family and elders, superstitions and practices which our Gurus deemed unnecessary and incorrect. I would assume one would have a hard time of letting go of a way of life when all those around you were so entrenched in their beliefs and their ways that there had to be friction between family members, friction between families in a village or city, tension between those who wanted to follow this new way of God and those who could not envisage relinquishing their centuries-old ways. Then there's the external upheavals and sturggles occuring outside the individual or even familial unit. The bloodthirsty, unforgiving desire of the Islamic rulers of India to convert the population to Islam and make every man, woman and child 'qabool the Islamic deen' was an unescapable fact of life at the time. So if you'd managed to placate relatives and family members after having started following the holy Guru Nanak (and his successors) then you had to tackle the Islamic problem. But this 'problem' was on a completely different scale to the aforementioned issues between family members and the immediate community; this was a matter of life or death. It was either embrace Islam and accept Allah as your God, or face death along with your loved ones. Yet Sikhi still found a way in the face of such odds. For those of us who recite our Ardaas on a daily basis, is it just myself who shudders whenever I read the following: "Jina Singha, Singhniya Ne Dharam Hait Sees Dithe, Bandh Bandh Khataiye, Khopriyan Lahaiyan, Charakiyan Teh Chareh, Aareya Naal Charaye Gai, Gurdwareya Laiy Qurbaaniya Dithiya, DHARAM NAHI HAREYA...." Let me translate: "Those Male and Female Sikhs who gave their heads for their faith, were dissected alive into finger-like pieces, had their scalps removed, were hoisted onto circular saws and crushed, were sawn alive into chunks, who gave their lives for the honour of their holy shrines, NOT ONCE DID THEY RELINQUISH THEIR FAITH..." 'Dharam Nahi Hareya'. It's as simple as that. We never accepted Islam. We never bowed down to the faith of the crescent and moon. We accepted death before we would ever dream of becoming part of the hordes of those who practiced sunnat. Even in recent history during the partition of India, Sikh fathers found it agreeable to kill their own females before they would allow them fall into Muslims hands. Can you imagine having the heart to do such a thing? Now what do we have? We have females in our faith embracing the Islamic faith, either out of their own volition because of "love" for a follower of Mohammed or equally through deception and the use of dark arts. Is that it? Is this where it ends for us? Was it that easy? It seems like Islam will finish the job it started in 15th century India, but instead of doing it by the sword, our females will flock to the sides of their Mohammaden lovers willingly. Do not for one moment assume the Mohammaden will respect the kaffir female. She is war booty, a prize, a trophy clinched from the grasp of the enemy and brazenly brandished underneath the noses of those he wishes to spite. Yet our females consider US to be the enemy because we suggest they do not indulge their base passions with the followers of the faith who desired our destruction and still certain quarters consider us apostates and unbelievers? Whilst I do not labour under the illusion that all followers of Islam desire our destruction, any Sikh with an iota of dardh for the sacrifices and ordeals of his forefathers will never entertain a union with a Muslim. I've heard in recent years non-Sikhs (and Sikh females) respond to talk such as what I've stated above in disparaging and dismissive terms. They dismiss our blood-soaked history at the hands of the Mohammadens by saying "Move on. Jeez, stop living in the past. We should all mix and mingle together sexually. Those were ancient times - everyone has moved on." Fair points but I have one reply to anyone who dares sweep away the blood of our ancestors: Go tell a Jew in 500 years time to forget the Holocaust. Tell a Jew to move on and stop living in the past. Tell a Jew that they should stop bleating on about the Holocaust because it was a long time ago and everyone has moved on. I dare anyone to tell a Jew to forget their tragic, blood-drenched history for the sake of something as base as sex, lust, and the apparent emotion of love. Such is the lust and rampant sexual desire strangling all sense of decency and respect, some of our sisters feel no compunction in not only crossing the line but erasing the line after having crossed it. We are a weak-willed, directionless people quick to abandon the old ways even if they are perfectly good, just for the sake of modernity. Some of us are ashamed of our background, our faith and consider everything and anything to be fair game even those things that should be set in stone. Why is it that when others, such as the Muslims, put up such a struggle against external forces who wish to harm them, we embrace those very same forces but do not even realise we are being made fools of? Is there anything us modern-day Sikhs will ever cherish and hold onto? Will we ever be firm on a philosophy and set of beliefs withour caving into popular opinion of the time? Anyway, this post has gone on for too long and I'm certain nobody is reading this. I'm most probably rather wrong in what I've stated but these are my opinions and, for better or worse, are mine and mine alone. Apologies if anyone has been offended. BTW, my gripe is not with Muslims despite appearances. But you have to draw a line somewhere. I know where it is and I'm sure many others do.

You're misunderstanding the problem, Mehtab Singh. Its not a problem with the nature of Sikhs in the UK. Its a problem with the psyche of muslims in the UK. I'm sure even the US State Department would admit that the UK has the highest amount of fundamentalist muslims in the world, and 99% of them are 2nd and 3rd generation UK born. To get to the bottom of that you need to examine the peculiar nature of multi-culturalism practiced in the UK. An example of it can be seen in visits to Punjab. There, you will find the Canadian flag and American flag proudly being displayed by Canadian and American Sikhs, but you will never, ever, find a British Union Jack being displayed by a UK Sikh. Ever. There are 2 reasons for this. Firstly, because as Europeans, flag waving and nationalism has since world war 2 been considered poor taste and thus it is only the right wing facists that display the national flag. Secondly, because no matter how many generations non-whites in England have been in England we always consider our nation to be the nation our grandparents were born in. Thats why 4th generation blacks in London consider themselves Jamaican rather than British. Thats why we 3rd and 4th generation London born Sikhs consider the Nishan sahib to be our flag and Punjab to be our nation rather than England. In the same way, the British born muslims are drawn to the pan-islamic identity. They identify with every muslim nation on earth, but not England. Just like our allegience lies with Punjab, and not England, their allegience lies with Islam, not England. This is why the dynamics here in England are so very different to that in Canada and America and probably why north American Sikhs find it difficult to understand the problem. On top of that you have one very profound difference between the Pakistanis in England and those in Canada and America. The first point to notice is that the Pakistanis greatly outnumber the Sikhs in the UK. But the most important point is the type of Pakistanis the UK has. On visits to Canada and America I noticed how most of the Pakistanis seem to be either Punjabis or modern pashtuns. Here in England, however, the vast majority of Pakistanis are Mirpuris. Amongst Pakistanis in Pakistan they are known as 'jangli' types, i.e very criminal minded and backward. Amongst this group, petty crime is a way of life, and the act of using girls is a natural by-product of this general immorality. Now......Lets put things in perspective though. We, in the UK, have an almost zero problem of Sikh girls marrying Christians and Hindus. Of course it happens, but in such small numbers it ain't even worth mentioning. In contrast, on my visits to north America, I noticed how extremely common it is there for Sikh girls to marry into, and by default become, Christian. What you will notice then, is that the UK Sikhs tend not to ignore their problem. They make a big scene out of it. In contrast, there is total silence from the Canadian and American Sikhs regarding their far bigger problem of Christian / Hindu marriages. Thus, I can't help but feel that the title of this thread should actually have been : "Question to Canadian and American Sangat: Why don't you learn from the UK Sikhs and do and say things to stop your sisters marrying outside the faith ? "

Continued from celebration 7 http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=37208 The decorated 'Kavach' or Char Aina armour of Guru Gobind Singh Ji - in the possession of the Royal House of Patiala A decorated Chakar Sikh Raaj Gutka of Rani Jindan The exquisite Gutka of Rani Jindan - in the collection of the British Library - Sri Sukhmani Sahib in gorgeous calligraphy, white letters on a black background with gold decoration The Seal Ring of Maharaja Ranjit Singh - carved emerald set in gold - reads " Akaal Sahai Ranjit Singh 1869 "(CE 1812) - in reverse as it would be used as seal. reverse; I recently had the incredible good fortune to acquire some hand written Gutkas - the gutkas include a large amount of Gurbani all arranged by Raag and include Bhagat Bani - The calligraphy is so beautiful. Continued in Celebration 9 http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=37210

Continued from Celebration 4 http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=37205 Decorated Dasm Granth From the collection of the British Library The decorated Saroops are from the Collection of the National Museum , New Delhi. When examining puratan saroops it is difficult to ascertain dates and build up any information about the scribes, the lack of provenance means their study is a very difficult task. One Saroop which has received much attention is housed in the collection of the National Museum , New Delhi. Not only is the patron of the Saroop known the scribes and dates are also known as they are part of the manuscript. This Saroop is a profusely decorated copy of the Damdami Birh - lavishly illuminated in Kashmiri style. The saroop was commissioned by Sodhi Bhan Singh of Haranpur (district Jhelum) between 1839 and 1843, it was produced by Kashmiri artist Miha Singh and the scribe Misar Prakas. Bhan Singh was a Sodhi decendent of Prithi Chand (boycotted as 'Minas') some have argued the production of this birh was an attempt to show the real or imagined postion of Bhan Singh - he is shown at the centre of many illustrations, in one he is worshipping Mahakaal and in another performing a 'Havan' . The Sodhis regained some standing and prestige during the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh - it is thought this birh was intended to be presented to Ranjit Singh - the birh is of a very large format - intended to be on 'display'. The birh also has a number of very interesting elements - Indic deities such as the incarnations of Vishnu are shown in 'dvadashakamalas' - twelve petalled lotuses, perhaps the most striking element is the 'Onkaars' that head the 'raag' sections and the 'tatkara' - they are composite illustrations showing Devi, Brahma, Vishnu and Lakhsmi - sometimes the 'Oankaars' are flanked by Ganesh and Hanuman. The 'Formless' made from Indic deities. One image stands out for me above all others, that is the illustration on the 'Tatkara' - the contents page. Here we see the tradition of Bhai Banno, it is said that when Guru Arjan Sahib finished dictating the Aad Granth to Bhai Gurdas the scribe , he sent Bhai Banno to Lahore to have the Pothi bound. Bhai Banno made a copy of the pothi which he also had bound. He presented both the volumes to Guru Sahib. In the illustration from this birh we can see Bhai Banno and Bhai Gurdas standing by their respective 'birhs' and Guru Arjan Dev Ji is pointing to the birh scribed by Bhai Gurdas as the accepted birh. There is another tradition which claims that Guru Sahib accepted both 'birhs' - terming Bhai Banno's birh the 'Khari Birh' - this tradition claims that Guru Sahib had wanted there to be only one birh - which Sangat would seek out and gain 'Mukti' - but as Bhai Banno had created a copy - this would start a tradition where copies would be available to all and all who sought their darshan would gain 'mukhti'. I will leave it to the reader to make their own minds with regard to the reasons the illustrations of deities and other subjects are present in this 'birh' - here are some illustrations; Contents page and Bhai Banno Illustration and the 'First Oankaar' The images of the Guru Sahiban and Indic Deities and Heroes - surrounding Bhan Singh worshipping Mahakaal Continued in celebration 6 http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=37207

Continued fro celebration 3 http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=37204 Dasm Granth Birh A Saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib dated CE 1795 from the Collection of the Guru Nanak Museum Leicester The Patiala 'Sunehri Birh' , the closing angs of this birh . A 'birh' scribed in Kartarpur in 1799 (CE 1742) Patna Sahib Birh - the calligraphy is exceptional - the picture shows a note by the scribe saying the birh has been copied and checked against the Aad Granth birh scribed by Bhai Gurdas ji. The Wonderful calligraphy of a Patna Sahib birh - the flowing vowel signs and perfectly formed gurmukhi 'akhar' are hypnotic. The 'tatkare' - 'contents page' of a birh in the possesion of the family of the Late Dr Chanan Singh Chan of Coventry UK. The birh is dated 1749 (CE 1692) - If you look at the top line you will see, after the mangalcharan, the line 'Sri Guru Granth Sahib' - this is extremely rare as such a description is not found in most 'hath likht' saroops Puratan Saroops from the collection of Baba Sarabjot Singh Bedi in Una. Spectacular calligraphy of a Puratan Saroop housed at the Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Hounslow. UK Illuminated saroops decorated in Kashmiri Style From the collection of the Punjabi University Patiala - dated circa 1820 From the collection of Sikh Dharma Espanola USA From the collection of the British Library dated circa 1859 From the Sikh Reference Library Amritsar Continued in celebration 5 http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=37206

Nishans and Hukumnamey Here we have examples of the handwriting of the Guru Sahiban (many of these were lost in the army attack on Amritsar in 1984) The nishan of Guru Arjan Dev ji from the Kartapuri Birh Penti Akhari - Gurmukhi alphabet in the hand of Guru Arjan Dev ji The Nishan of Guru Hargobind Sahib in a pothi in the Central Sikh Museum The Nishan of Guru Har Rai Sahib - from a saroop of Guru Sahib at the Ram Rai Darbar , Dehra Dun A hukumnama sent by Guru Har Krishan ji to the Sangat of Pattann (Fareed ke) text of hukumnama The Nishan of Guru Tegh Bahader Sahib from a Saroop in the Patiala Archives The Nishan of Guru Tegh Bahader Sahib from a Saroop of Guru Sahib in the Reference Library Amritsar a 'Hukum Khaas Furman' from Guru Tegh Bahader Sahib to the Sangat of Patna - thanking them for their assistance at the birth of Guru Gobind Singh ji. text; Hukumnama from Guru Tegh Bahadar Sahib to the Sangat of Mirzapur text; Here is a very interesting Hukumnama sent by Guru Tegh Bahadar Sahib - to the Sangat of Pattann - it is interesting for two reasons first is the line "Sarbat Sangat Divali no darshan aavana" - confirming the tradition of seeking Darshan at Divali and the second extremely interesting reason is Guru Sahib's use of the term "Khalsa" in the line "Pattann di Sangat Sri Guru Ji da Khalsa he" text; Hukumnama from Guru Gobind Singh ji to the Sangat of Banaras text;