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It makes it bad, Yes I agree, the intstruments you speak of were introduced because they fit in with Raag Vidiya , different instruments accompany different Raags they are used to influence the different moods and emotions of the various shabads they accompany. What is bad is that all of this traditional Vidiya appears to have been lost and instead has been replaced largely by just the Vaaja and Tabla on kirtan stages, because maybe they are easier to learn. The effect is not the same, it is a discredit to Raag Vidiya and Kirtan to not have the correct instruements and knowledge of the accompanying Raags,.

Another factor in this issue is that the Gurdwara runs a number of schools in the area where a majority of students are Muslims. The Gurdwara committee needs to rethink their acts of charity and now refocus on the Sikhs rather than educate a community of ungrateful Muslims. The committee should be looking after the poorer sections of the Sikh community such as the Banjaras, Ramaiyas or the converted former Hindu chamars who became Sikhs in the late 80s. Why not educate them rather than the Muslims. http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/girl-s-college-may-provide-healing-touch-to-riot-torn-saharanpur/article1-1245741.aspx

veer ji you cannot replicate sikh raags properly on the harmonium for instance Shri raag which is one of the most used cannot be correct because the re note is incorrect thus raag is not correct thus naad of shabad is destroyed . Naad guru and Shabad guru make the true kirtan for us ...naad creates the emotion which enhances the pakard of the shabad into your hirda. listen to bhai Avtar Singh ji dhann so raag sorangeh on www.gurmatveechar.com volume 1 ...and see how different it makes you feel compared to aam kirtania vaaja kirtan

I have to admit when it comes to dealing with Muslims and Christian missionaries Hindus are faar better then us . Valmikis openly beated sikh boy in Amritsar but Sikhs never reacted same thing happens in Delhi and poor riot victims Sikhs went after Vaalmikis like anything looks like anakh - Self respect have died among Sikhs of Punjab send them to Delhi or Hyderabad for moral boosting . Haa vai Punjab aalyo vahde zameendaro soormyo kithe haige ho tuhade naalo ta Delhi te bhaape te Hyderabad de vanjare jaida ankhi ne .

Total manmat soch here. Khalsa can never touch an enemy's woman. Muslim women are our.sisters. Secondly, why should Punjabi muslims be punished for what bhayya muslims do.

Personally I like the old instruments and lament that it's no longer widely used as it once was. Sikh Sansthas should focus on spread Raag Vidya in Tanti Saaj. But the thing about Harmonium is that it is very easy to learn and has allowed untold amounts of Sikhs to perform kirtan which otherwise they would not be able to. Harmonium is so easy to learn that you can literally learn it from the internet while that is not possible for stringed instruments which require an Ustaad to be physically present to teach you and even then it will take years and years to learn. That is not to say Vaaja can replace the beautiful sounds of stringed instruments, but if there is no Ustad near you, then surely there is nothing wrong in learning the Vaaja which many unmatched experts of Raag Music like Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan had not problem singing to. Secondly, for those who don't have knowledge in Raag music, but sing with pyar in simple tunes like Brahmgiani Sant Attar Singh Mastuane wale who would do Kirtan to Shaine and Dholki with simple Dharnas. Would such kirtan not be parvaan at the darbar of Guru Sahib?

both sides are wrong and we sikhs should not get involved in this.

Both sides are wrong. There are no angels here. Hamas started this by firing rockets and they do it from areas populated by civilians, so when Israelis attack, they end up killing civilians. Israel on their part has used disproportionate amount of firepower. Previously they would do target assassinations of Hamas leaders which was actually much more humane as they are the main culprits and plus no civilians would get killed. Another mistake they made was to weaken PLO which resulted in the rise of Hamas. At least PLO is a moderate organisation and they are accepted by the international community as the representatives of the Palestinians. But now that Hamas is leading Gaza, the Israelis should accept that as reality and stop treating them as a minor terrorist organisation. They should deal with them. By not dealing with them, they are just making them more and more extreme. Allow bilateral trade, let their economy grow. That is the only way to peace. Personally I am neutral on this subject. Sunni Muslims are such that they do not tolerate non Muslim minorities no matter how much you give them support at the end of the day you are just a hell bound Kafir to them, nothing more. And Israelis lost my sympathy when I found out they along with the UK sent advisers to India to help guide Indian army into Sri Darbar Sahib in 1984. Currently, they are one of the biggest strategic allies of India. And in future if Sikhs ever have an armed conflict with Delhi hakoomat, you can be sure the Indian armed forces would again get special training from the Israelis.

If the Indian High Commission has any sense at all it should pay N30SINGH some decent living expenses. The man has consistently done such a fine job of representing the Indian government's point of view on this Sikh forum I don't think it fair that his undying loyalty goes unrewarded. Come on Indian Government...pay the man his dues.

Every time I read a news article in which Sikh groups say their "feelings were hurt" or that the others "hurt our sentiments" I just cringe and can read no more. We need to tell our Sikh leaders to stop using these terms. We need to educate them as to what these English language terms imply in the English language. They need to understand how, in the English language, these terms imply a contexxt of immature children with very fragile feelings. Not what you expect from adults and warriors. Say it like it is. Hate Crimes committed by Muslims against Sikhs. Enough of this childish language.

Yes I agree it has a big impact on my kids they can tell what is reality(moth, dharam raj, lakh churasi joon) from the fiction you guys want to peddle to them (sharab pio, assh karo, drugs kao, kuch nahin hona tuvhnu )

Gurbanee Vichaar and Ithihaas of our SatGuru's go hand in hand. Ithihaas/History shows how Gurbani is to be implemented. Stories from our Guru Sahibaans, bhagats, GurSikhs/Mahapursh show how they lived the teachings from Gurbani. Its often said that the soul of Sikhi is Gurbani Vichaar and the body of Sikhi is the Ithiaas. Thats why the marayada, at many institutions still today, will be Gurbani Katha in the morning and then historical katha of Guru Sahibaan or other prominent figures in the evening. This is normally done from granths such as the Jaman Sakhis or Gurpartap Suraj Parkash Granth.

Look be realistic people no 11 year old male or female is going to be confronting their father over dodgy pics ...go to your Mum explain to her what you saw and did , then ask her to handle it . The father will get angry , be dismissive at the least or violent at the worst do you really think you are giving great advice to place a child in that situation. The mother has a right to know if she is unaware of the existence of these photos so she can fix her relationship if needs be and confront her partner for the need of this gandh. Obviously the child knows that these pics are not right so stop quizzing or making excuses . It is an adult situation and should remain so ... Please talk to your mum she will know what to do ... you are a young person who doesn't need this stress and heartache ...I am glad you were so intelligent and protected your younger brothers and sisters from these images, now trust your Mum and tell her what's going on

Non -news ...just the same old tired studies drawn upon by atheists to show how religion warps people ... miracles are called such because they are not normal occurences...anyway back to nam jap

veer ji , I think that you didn't really think it through anyhow ...taliban have killed schoolchildren and school teachers, beaten family's menfolk to death for perceived collabaration, which in reality means non=cooperation to their edicts . Forcing girls of very young ages to get married to them and then beating and abusing them . They destroy hospitals deny healthcare to the womenfolk, imprison women in the house, forbid them from leaving the house with out a man accompanying them . all this and more besides none of the agnalis have done that I think , true they have overly punished wrong doing by youths and others but i have the belief that simply talking to the agnalis taksal guys and getting them to talk more hit less can solve the problem . Labelling the same as those scummy individuals who make human life impossible for many is not productive or wise.

Drummer are you saying israel is the bad guys for targeting hamas militants that are shooting rockets at innocent civilians in israel I would say going against israels right to self defence is anti sikhi Sikhs are tought to defend themselves An its hamas that is using civilians as human shields which is savage and cowardly What should israel do sit on the side line n let palestine attack israel

Point is not the Hindu role in this. But what was the majboori of a mob of tens of thousands of Indian Muslims who rioted against Sikhs and this after the way SFJ tried to show good will by fighting for Muslim victims of 2002 Gujarat riots which has nothing to do with us. Then During 2002 riots, Sikhs were sending trucks of food for Muslim riot victims. Sikhs need to keep their nose out of other people's business because Indian Muslims will never appreciate any of these good will gestures. We need to read and learn from history instead of learning from practical expereince when we get Dhokha from the people we help

Regardless who uses these childish terms and for what reason. Admins of this forum are advised to ban the use of terms such as Khaliban as this name calling business has now resulted in it being used by Hindus in a derogatory way against Sikhs who don't toe the Hindutva line.

Channel your efforts into learning proper raad vidiya and traditional puraatan instruments that existid in the court of Guru Hargobind Maharaj... You do know that the Vaaja is not a atraditional Sikhi/Kirtan or even Indian instrument it's origins are the "european harmonium" it was introdiced by the British during times of the Raj to make Kirtan sound closer to church organ music. Yet another one of the long list of lost/changed/perverted Sikhi traditions. If you really want to learn proper Kirtan first learn real classical music and raag vidiya then learn Sarangi, Rabaab, Dilruba, Saranda etc etc.

RagaTracks .... you can tune your voice to scales MeetKalakar... have loads of beginner vocal exercises to strengthen voice female leader of lesson more classical desi raag

Oh Waheguru ...you made me laugh ...I don't know of any specifically but if you start with those I'll try and find some more things that will help will building up your voice

One Sikh bravely faced a mob of thousands.

The largely Hindu Police stood back in this clash, this also something that should be noted. The Sikhs are saying this incident was well planned. This kind of thing does not happen if the Police and Political leaders are not involved, similar to 1984. Sikhs are not safe in India.

And if you think about it based on historical perspectives, we had a sovereign Khalsa Raj when we didn't meddle in the affairs of others. The Marathas, Afghans, Mughals were entangled in a web of clashes, and the Sikhs were also sucked into it. However as long as we maintained neutrality and the Singhs of those times used wise political moves, we were fine. Its only when, for whatever reason, Sikhs became part of the Indian freedom struggle that we slowly lost Punjab to India, beginning with the annexation of 1849.

Very well said, we should "...remain neutral and seize any opportunity that presents itself for the Panth's political independence"

-Jewish vs Muslims -Christians vs Muslims -Hindus vs Muslims -Shia vs Sunni no need for us to get involved in any of these. Sikhs should just remain neutral and seize any opportunity that presents itself for the Panth's political independence. Be like the Kurds. In Iraq, they didn't get involved in the Shia vs Sunni war. Instead they took that as an opportunity to increase their territory by 40% and also reclaim their historic capital Kirkuk(full of oil) to the annoyance of the Arabs. Once we have a country of our own, then we can get involved in other people's conflict and help them.