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why do different castes think there from a diff race LOL i mean a jatt looks the exact same as any other punjabi so i don't understand why there so much tension based on a surname we all singhs

like veer ji says and Professor Surinder SIngh confirmed to me when I asked him personally which order/instrument to study first that dilruba is best starting point because of fret positions being marked then Saranda will be easier .

Sarangi has no frets so it takes ages to learn to find the correct position of the notes. Also on sarangi have to find the notes by the edge of your nail so quite hard to learn. Dilruba has frets and you pick out the notes by just pressing behind each fret to easier to learn.

The dilruba is definitely a good instrument for beginners. The notes are very easy to find, and you probably won't get calluses like you would if you played the sarangi, which is also the hardest of these instruments to learn - but which arguably produces the most beautiful sound. I'm not sure how similar the sarangi and the sarandha are, but if you learn to play the dilruba you'll also be able to play the taus and esraj with little trouble.

How are Jatts supremists? Can jatts be arrogant, of course but you conflated Jatts to be nazi's. Unless jatts have invaded countries and put people into concentration camps, that is not a valid comparison. If Jatts dominate areas of Sikhi, it could be because Jatts comprise a very large proportion of Sikhs. If Jatts overwhelmingly take up higher positions of Sikh institutions they perhaps took initiative and the risks for the panth in a higher proportion than Sikhs of other background. Would one call that segregation?

Between sarangi, sarandha and dilruba what is the easiest instrument to learn? Also, I have heard that Sarangi and Sarandha are so similar that if a person knows how to play Sarangi they can also play Sarandha. Is that true?

On another thread someone posted this : <<<< Not denying but increasing from that point , we are allowed to sing His bani but why don't we ? and why do committee types freak out when it happens ? >>> It got me thinking, without it being a thread of just nindhya, what specifically are the kinds of rules and restrictions the committees of our Gurdwaras impose? 1. We know they pick up money that the sangat has donated to raggies - daylight robbery. 2. If raggies do parchar of Amrit and becoming Khalsa, many committees do not like this and will pull the raggies to one side and tell them not to do this kind of parchar on stage.

If the Ragis are docile and don't push anyone's buttons, then people are much more likely to leave money in the golak. For the sake of understanding, we should try for one minute to imagine the Gurdwara as many on these committees see it - as a business. Every business needs good PR. Most Sikhs are not very religious, and if a raagi tried to persuade them to live within the rehat they'd probably start resenting him as a zealot and a fanatic. It would be very bad PR for the Gurdwara. Business may even suffer. Because people pay for a certain product. These people are paying money to us [the committee] so that they can come here and feel spiritual and good about themselves. They aren't paying to be made to feel guilty, or to hear the cold truths about their faith which they'd rather not face. They want the illusion, not the reality, so the illusion is what we'll give them in case they decide to take their money elsewhere. At least I think that's why Gurdware muzzle their ragis. Even our Guru Ghars haven't been spared from political correctness.

On Page 373 of Volume 2 of Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib Steek by Baba Santa Singh, just before Sarbloh Kavach, there is a tukk tuhee oankaar shabade, beej mantar jag tarnah

The poster "Quantivus" has highlighted the problem with this very subject within his/her post based on their personal opinion. It is not about building SEPARATE caste based gurdware or counting how many Sikh contributors to the faith were of jatt ancestry. That's the point right there. These individuals did it for sikhi and the panth which preaches no caste lol? They gave their lives for the tenets of Sikhi. Until we see all our mahaan shaheed as contributors to sikhi and the panth without looking at caste, we can then move on. It does not just affect sikh from mazhabi ancestry, it affects us all. The usual arguments will come into debate like "who did the gurus marry" and "what caste were they". Fact of the matter and fact based on gurmat is caste has no place in sikhi. Either in marriage or either in contribution. Only when you condemn caste supremacy issues, can you really move forward as a guru ka sikh. Guru Nanak Dev ji, denounced his caste by not accepting his janeu. He then in later life adopted farming. Surely this demonstrates that a job is a job. Over time anyone can become professional within their profession. However it sea that over time, we still have not adopted Guru Nanak Dev Jis sikhi and moved forward with him.

Guru tegh bahadur married a gujjar.

It would be better, but Punjabi culture doesn't exactly instil a mindfulness about the well-being of the economy and society. All people care about is making money for themselves, selling their land to the highest bidder so they can send their poor and unemployed kids to the West, where they can still be poor and unemployed but with more rain and KFC.

Jatts are no superior race nor are they cut above the rest.

Quantavius, Jatt supremacism isn't some harmless quirk or bit of eccentricity, it directly affects many lives. It is no coincidence that so many of the anti-Sikh deras in the Punjab rely upon majhbi and low-caste former Sikhs to constitute the bulk of their following, or that Christian missionaries are specifically targeting these people. They have turned to these cults to find the acceptance which they are convinced that Sikhi denies them, because of the actions of bigoted Jatt supremacists - excluding them from Gurdwara committees, assaulting them when they agitate for their rights [this still happens from time to time in my nanke's pind Talhan), refusing to sell them land because of their caste. You appear totally disconnected from the reality of it. I don't know how often you visit Punjab, if at all, but the implications of casteism there are not the same as they are for Sikhs like you living in the West, in a society where these labels mean nothing at all.

Ranjeet, You've missed the point. Its not about invading countries. It's about defining a particular group as a "superior race" and somehow 'a cut above the rest'.

not denying but increasing from that point , we are allowed to sing his bani but why don't we ? and why do committee types freak out when it happens ?

Is anything stopping others doing the same?

Numerical preponderance is not the root cause here, it is more of a chain effect. When Jat-vaad is given more credence than a chain effect occurs where others also feel entitled to do the same.

To be fair, there are some pretty harsh words used in SGGS Ji too (not in relation to women, but terms used to describe one who has stepped away from God). Off the top of my head, something like "kumjaat" is something most of us recite daily from certain banis. The "Will somebody think of the children?" argument is weak. The Dasam Granth issue is an incredibly divisive subject, loaded with nuance and subtleties that fly over the pagri of most of our one-dimensional, literally-minded people.

Tell me where this is from, Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji? eyk ik®snµ srb dyvw dyv dyvw q Awqmw ] eaek kirasana(n) sarab dhaevaa dhaev dhaevaa thaathamaa || The One Lord Krishna is the Divine Lord of all; He is the Divinity of the individual soul. You complain about Dhunda not having the freedom to speak his mind. This is false because he has countless youtube videos where he speaks his mind and then retracts what he says because the crowd would reject his views. He also has been caught joining two separate tuks of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji on different angs in an question and answer session. Yet his supporters never spoke up against him. It took a Singh who accepts Gurbani of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji to point out his mistake. So who respect Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji more? Sri Charitorpakyan comes at the end of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. When a child comes of age, he or she will be introduced to the teachings of Sri Charitorpakhyan. If you have a problem with Sri Charitorpakhyan, pull your child out of middle school because students are sexist and speaking about sex at a young age and even the schools teach about sex. I would rather have my Guru teach my children about the dangers of kaam than have some manmukh. The stories in Sri Charitorpakhyan are there to influence a person away from adultery, sex acts before marriage, falling for the opposite sex as the be all and end all, not devaluing the strength of women, not accepting every decision made at face value, the punishment for falling to kaam, how the world around you is going to behave around you because they fully indulge in maya, etc. Sant Maskeen Singh ji said, those who can't read Sri Charitorpakhyan without being ashamed are the problem and not Sri Charitorpakhyan. He used harsh words, but I will not because mod's will think I am using that tone. According to your post, I can understand you did not even grasp the ability of how Guru Sahib used Devi and devta names in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji. Here is a direct question to see how much hindophobhia you have. Was any of the Devi or Devta saved? If so, who and where did you get your information from? Very basic and simple question for those who contemplate over Gurbani. Let's see if you even attempt to answer this question. We, who accept Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji as Guru Sahib Bani, do not hide any shabads of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji from the sangat because it will disapprove what I as a lowly insect is saying. Dhunda and co. are famously known for this act. When directly challenged they run off or show up 3 hours late to a discussion and have one of their supporters purposely cause a chaos to end the discussion. Honest men do not hide from discussion. If Dhunda was following the teachings of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji, he would not be scared of open discussions.

You have zero evidence of this lol. So many Sikhs throw around "agent" accusation like its no big deal. Dont like someone? Label them an agent! Of course now youll accuse me of being a follower of these men, but im not a follower of ANY baba, I just support rationality.