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As we all know there are no Sikhs in the British Parliament - a blatant testimony to Sikhs being marginalised at the expense of other groups. If even the second strongest Sikh diaspora population has no political voice in 2017 it's very worrying for Sikh interests moving forward. Preet Kaur Gill (who is married to an Amritdhari Singh) represents the best chance Sikhs might have for even just one lone isolated voice at Westminster - whilst in comparison there are ten Pakistani MP's (despite the Pakistani population being roughly double the Sikh one). Hopefully local Sikhs support her and other MP's that have stood up for Sikh interests like Tom Watson and John McDonnell. For the Sikh community in the UK to be punching at it's weight there should be at least 4 Sikh MP's in the British Parliament out of 650. In contrast, in Canada, 19 MP's are Sikh out of 338 (5.6%) and even the Defence Minister is a Sikh along with other cabinet ministers.

Same here I've seen her active on twitter challenging punjabi atheist liberal cuck sunny hundals anti-sikh remarks and tweets. You can tell she is a proud Sikh woman who is interested in communities issues unlike some past MP's (parmjeet danda, paul uppal, marsha singh, piara singh khabra) and council candidates who looked Sikh or said they were Sikhs but did nothing or say hardly anything positive on issues concerning British Sikhs or Sikh nationalist causes. If we compare and contrast with British Jewish Mp's they are staunch supporters of jewish zionist Israel and unashamed of that fact and it was the british jewish prime minister benjamin disraeli that was able to do secret deals with other world political and banking leaders back in 20th century to create israel out of Palestine. We need more Sikh political leaders with sikh nationalist mindsets so we can progress to safeguard our communities future.

Are you feeling ok? Whats your motivation behind this post? I say shes a great candidate for British Sikhs and your trying to take this thread in a weird tangent

I might have been wrong about her husband being Amritdhari. But she still represents the best chance Sikhs might have for even just one lone isolated voice at Westminster. Jagsaw would you rather see a Pakistani MP in Edgbaston or a Sikh one?

There's been a spectacularly massive misunderstanding all around on this thread. Firstly, our quick-to-jump-to-conclusions buddy from West London confused Preet Kaur Gill, the prospective parliamentary candidate for Birmingham Edgbaston, and the named subject of this discussion, with Neena Gill, the current member of european parliament for West Midlands, who has nothing to do with either the Birmingham Edgbaston seat, or this discussion. You can rely on jigsaw's confident assertion that Preet Kaur Gill's hair is cut to "just below the ears". Evidently it isn't whereas Neena Gill's is. Secondly, nobody recognised his mix-up, which is inexplicable given that we have so many members from the West Midlands area. Thirdly, right on cue, plenty of people piled in like a car crash on a motorway to deliver pointless rebuttals, in the process providing undue credit to some poor bloke who doesn't have the first clue what he's on about. All the while the poor bloke's been barking up the wrong tree. The fact that jagsaw subsequently went into an uncharacteristically silent "maun vart" should have been conspicuous enough to be self explanatory.

Wow.. I didn't think that I'd be saying this, but I think I agree with Sukhvirk. I believe that it is true that part of the motivation for langar was breaking barriers. Some people say that only poor people should eat in langar, but then how would the rich man learn humility and brotherhood with the poor man? It is said that when Nasser (leader of Egypt) visited the langar at Amritsar, he was amazed at the fact of rich and poor all eating on the floor, and he gave all his money in his wallet as an offering. It doesn't have the same effect when langar is only for poor people. In fact, I think one certain way to kill off the institution of langar would be to announce that only poor people will be able to eat langar henceforth.

Stop trying to insert caste in here, unless you want an entire caste war. Agreed. So many people are proud of Harjit SIngh Sajan on Facebook. Nobody but nobody was mentioning or even concerned with his caste. The obsession with revealing people's castes in matters of Sikh leadership deserves to be curtailed. Does anybody think that the Defense Minister (Sajan) will only provide defense to members of his own caste? That would be stupid. I do agree that, in Punjab, a reasonable degree of inclusiveness in candidate selection and minister selection is not a bad idea, but in Canada, where only a select few of us happen to make it to the top, it would be ridiculous to make caste a consideration. It's also incumbent on the few that make it to the top to represent all the Sikh (and Candanian) communities, not just some favored groups.

She is the next generation of Sikh politicians. Hopefully, she is a different breed to the earlier Sikh MPs.

Comrade Jagsaw should be pleased because she is a Labour candidate. Jagsaw is a Labour man through and through. In some Labour seats they have a woman only shortlists. The seat she is contesting is one where the previous Labour MP is standing down. This is the same with the Slough Labour seat where it was supposed to be a woman only shortlist for the Labour candidacy but they have chosen a turbanned Sikh in the name of Tann Dhesi. Both Tann Dhesi and Preet Kaur Gill have cut their teeth in local politics as councillors so it is a great opportunity for them to move onto the next level. If both candidates win their seats we will have the first female Sikh MP and the first turbanned Sikh MP. I have seen Preet Kaur Gill's tweets and I am confident that she will fight for Sikh rights. She has challenged the likes of Sunny Hundal on twitter over some of his articles.

Mega lol. Hilariously superb satire. Talk about laying it on thick. Only one way, jagsaw, it could have possibly been topped. Perhaps, if it was, actually, in any way, true. Just a small pity then that it's entirely off. Before you launch into a massively hysterical rant, make some attempt at the very least to get your subject right. Lol

The term is "crab bucket mentality ". It is because when one person rises above it shows deficiencies in others.

So, what are you trying to say? That Canadian Sikhs would be better off without 4 cabinet members and multiple MPs?

Wow.. Is that really the point of Guru ka langar? Your suggesting the point of sitting down and breaking bread or serving someone, rejecting caste boundaries didn't have anything to do with it?

I wish her all the best in her endeavours. It's only the constituents of Edgbaston that can vote for her anyway.

I think she would be an asset for British Sikhs, I have seen some of her work helping in Sikh causes in the UK and internationally. She should get the Sikh votes

given that we are supposed to make people comfortable physically enough to sit and concentrate on kirtan and bhagti not so sleepy they fall asleep , the rich foods like fried stuff, pickles (which is kind of insulting the prashad aspect of langar, we don't put sweeties and sauces on karah ). Kheer is a tradition that is long-standing and not threatening to people with gluten problems . We should be aware of allergies and try to make food allergen free or offer alternatives for those in need (like the plain rice I suggested) . The gratitude is gone and that is the main problem , too much choice so , that much nakarey, keep it simple , do it well and healthy and it's a win win ... Another problem to consider: Disposing of left over langar is usually a hassle that most gurdwarey don't want to deal with so throw it into the garbage disposal unit ... and that used frying oil is another bigger problem to get rid of responsibly . Can't pour it into the sewage system as it will cause fatbergs .

one word - elitism

That's the problem with our community, no matter if somebody has positive qualities, they will always belittle them and look for faults.

Her father was a prominent member of the Sikh community in Birmingham and did a lot of good in his time as president of Guru Nanak Gurdwara in Smethwick, she seems to be following in his footsteps which isn't a bad thing if you ask me. I would reply to some of the things "Guest Jagsaw_Singh" has said but to be honest, i can't be bothered, it's an age old problem we have in out community to pull people down.

I have no idea of what set of circumstances may have led to Gill's husband being Amritdhari (if indeed he is), and his wife not. But your use of "keeps a wife with her hair cut" seems to imply that he should divorce her. Now, exactly what great example of Sikhism would that be?

Seriously? You want to use the Rehit to test MP candidates for suitability? The same Guru that gave us the Rehit is also the one who made an alliance with an emperor (Bahadur Shah) who certainly was not in the Rehit. Meanwhile, I assume you would have not problem with a non-Sikh candidate who would be a million miles away from Rehit.

You don't know what you're talking about lol. And I assume you're referring to the one Ipsos poll from many years ago? Although from what I recall it wasn't to see what religion is most hated? Fact is Canadian Sikhs are more politically active than UK Sikhs. Go to any event from any political party and you'll see Sikhs present. Nor is there a "our man" or "our party."

Jagsaw don't say anything online behind a keyboard that you wouldn't say to a person's face. You come off as an unhinged weirdo. Stay classy bub. It's not what you say it's how you say it. Akul vi koi gall hundi ah

Is it langar or is it us not getting any physical exercise or taking too large portions? (I agree that gurdwara sevadars need to respect people that say they want small portions. I've seen many times where you tell the sevadar you want just a little, and instead of giving you half a portion, they'll give 2x the portion a normal person would need. If you hadn't said anything, they'd normally give you 3x the portion.) I don't think it makes you a bad person to refrain from fried foods. I'm sorry to hear you have cholesterol problems. Regardless, there's no reason to not have Parshad simply because of cholesterol. Elderly people can simply request to have "kinka parshad". Just say "kinka" to the sevadar, and make a pinching movement with your fingers. If he still gives you too much, next time explain your situation to him, and tell him to give you no more than a pea-sized amount of Parshad. You don't have to make the choice of getting a handful of Parshad, or going without.

Although the reason that we Sikhs don't discriminate in langar is because we see God in all, both of you are right that there are legitimate questions in regard to that. The way that some Hindus think that Sikhs are just a free food service is very infuriating. Guru Amar Das ji's idea of langar was "Pehle pangat, pache sangat" (First langar, and then congregation). But some (many/most?) Hindus these days just come eat the free food, never sit in sangat to listen to Guru's philosophy, remain mired in their idol-worshiping muck, and to add insult to injury, they have the gall to berate us for supposed faults in the food or service. Do you think that we should refuse non-Sikhs at the door? Or maybe institute a policy of "Pehle sangat, piche pangat"?

Yes, some people do have questions as to whether we're too accepting and soft in regards to that. For example, if you've ever had occasion to stay overnight at Kesgarh Sahib at Anandpur Sahib, you might have had the misfortune to find paan stains in your room. Now, why, you ask would Sikhs be using paan? Well, they wouldn't. But Anandpur Sahib is very close to Naina Devi, and many HIndus stay at the serai on the way to their trip to Naina Devi. There has already been some reform in this regard: Most gurdwaras will only accept families in serais, and will not give a room to singles. You can see this on the online booking for serais at Amritsar.

It was down South! I guess the bride was too posh for prontheh! If she did have aloo waleh prontheh it would have been called "crepe pomme de terre!"

Agree. Langar should be simple and so that everybody can have it, including those with health conditions, allergies and children. " I reckon there should be set langar - one dhal , one sabji , roti , plain rice for gluten free people, no nuts/seeds used , no outside mithaai/sweets . Kheer on gurpurabs .... we do not need pakorey/samosey/chips ...if people want that food the can go to a restaurant or make at home ." " Make phikka cha for everyone and reply sweetly 'bibi ji je mitta chahida Darbar vich gurbani di mittas leh levo'" Above quoted, I agree with penji. This is how it should be, it's not a restaurant. And a lot get wasted too, because it's not basic and simple and has way too many chillis, even some of my Punjab born relative say it's way too hot. Im also getting fed up of people posting langar pics on Facebook, showing their thaals and then people commenting like they are doing restaurant reviews. Like come on, what need is there to put those pics on. If they go to the Gurdwara, is that all they go for? No mention of the Gurbani, or which shabad was playing, but the only thing they decide to put on is their thaal. How immature.

point of langar was to keep body and soul together i.e. provide necessary nourishment for the traveller or poor. Now it is like a restaurant where people even talk about langar as if they are giving a review for a culinary magazine . Most dharamshala would just provide dhal and roti , occasionally kheer on gurpurabs . The families put on langars like they compete outside with their cars and homes , there is no sewa bhavna, otherwise they would actually make sure their langar served the needy not their well-fed rishtedaars. I reckon there should be set langar - one dhal , one sabji , roti , plain rice for gluten free people, no nuts/seeds used , no outside mithaai/sweets . Kheer on gurpurabs .... we do not need pakorey/samosey/chips ...if people want that food the can go to a restaurant or make at home . We cannot serve that to gur ki sangat as Guru Nanak Dev ji has instructed us not eat that which will cause us pain and increase vikars . Make phikka cha for everyone and reply sweetly 'bibi ji je mitta chahida Darbar vich gurbani di mittas leh levo'

Agree.

Agree.

It may be shocking to you but to those who suffer from type 2 Diabetes it is vitally important and can sometimes be the difference between normality and going into diabetic shock. The system of langar is a beautiful one but from a health perspective it need's a huge change, i go to the Gurdwara every day before work but i only have parshad once or twice a week because i have cholesterol problems, i tend to refrain from anything fried when i have langar, does that make me a bad person? It does need reform, yes, but not to the point where we are closing our doors to everyone, the whole principle of langar is the food is served to all without distinction of faith, religion or background, for free, the issue of people coming in to a Gurdwara to scout it out is a security one and needs to be dealt with desperately, if we turn away anyone who looks remotely "shifty" then we are going against the principles of out religion all together.

Canadian PM is a good man. He plus his council made an intelligent, balanced & historic decision in selecting Sikh ministers. Can't say the same for British.

I think people in general (and maybe especially apnay) limiting sugar intake is important as hell these days - even more so for apnay who seem to have a diabetes epidemic going on. What's wrong with a policy of making only feeki cha and letting people put in sugar as they desire?

langar system needs reform as does alot of aspects of sikh society for too long non-sikh forces and ideologies have made Sikhi out to be a welfare system for all communities when it should only cater for believers in the sikh faith, those who desperately need help and those who want to convert to sikhi. Allowing any tom, dom and harry to treat Sikh places of worship like a restaurant or guesthouse/hotel is showing how far we have fallen as a proud community for others to abuse our hospitality either through minor contemptible remarks or robberies by non-sikhs who scouted out the premises and seen Sikhs are weak and coward cucks now so they wont stop them robbing and disrespecting guru's house. Sikhs need to return to their martial roots that is where confidence to deal firmly with these issues will come from.

You are absolutely correct, the Langar system has been abused.

There are infinitely more barriers. English people are a thousand times more devious than Canadians. Plus many white Canadians have at least attenuated their white supremacist thinking, whilst Anglos in England still cling onto old colonialist notions (even though they go miles to try and hide it). You have to walk, talk and think a certain way before they even let you near those positions here. And if any apna can do that, you can pretty much guarantee that they don't really have any genuine feelings for their own community, and are more than likely weak-minded sycophants, or ruthless opportunists who would never rock the boat in a million years in fear of losing their position.

That's because the fresh off the boats in Canada (who are the vast majority) vote 'India stylee' in Canada......i.e. in blocks for their 'man' without a care or thought about policies, The UK Sikh community is exactly like the established 3rd and 4th generation Sikh community of Canada in that they want to know what you stand for before deciding whether or not they should put a cross next to your name in the ballot box. Despite the high numbers of politicians Canadian surveys have revealed that Sikhs are the single most hated group in Canada among Canadians as a whole. The UK Pakistanis work to the same modus operandi as the Sikh Canadian fresh off the boats. They also have cornered the 'politician' market in the same way they have cornered the kebab and taxi market. In terms of true substance it means nothing. Despite so many MP's, cabinet ministers and even the Mayor of the greatest city on earth surveys have shown them to be the single most hated community in the whole of Britain among Britons. Exactly. 2 questions: 1) If Preet Kaur Gill is married to an Amritdhari why is it that Preet Kaur Gill still doesn't have enough akal to stop cutting her hair to just below the ears ? 2) If Preet Kaur Gill is married to an Amritdhari, what kind of amritdhari is he that keeps a wife with her hair cut, styled and dyed ? A simple Google internet search reveals plenty of pictures and news stories of Preet Kaur Gill (who is married to an Amritdhari Singh) and yet, strangely, there is nothing in which Preet Kaur Gill (who is married to an Amritdhari Singh) says anything about the plight of Sikhs in Punjab.....or the Sikh genocide....or the right of Sikhs. If Preet Kaur Gill (who is married to an Amritdhari Singh) wants our votes then Preet Kaur Gill (who is married to an Amritdhari Singh) needs to understand that we are not uneducated performing monkeys that will vote for her just because she is Preet Kaur Gill (who is married to an Amritdhari Singh). For Preet Kaur Gill (who is married to an Amritdhari Singh) to come onto this forum and expect our votes just on the basis that she has the word 'Kaur' in her name (and is married to an Amritdhari Singh) without telling us ANY of the things she believes in or stands for tells us exactly what she thinks of us on an intellectual level. Best of luck to Preet Kaur Gill (who is married to an Amritdhari Singh).

Brother what do you fear of? You say your fake ego is dying. That is indeed a good sign of his Grace on you, you should be happy about it. Then you ask, how to submit to Him? That is relatively easy. He does not want any materialistc items from us. He only wants our prem aur pyaar, our bhakti, our absolute faith at His Lotus feet, and all that can be achieved, if only we merge in Him, which is possible through His Simran. Jin Har japeeya, se Har hoeeya. Sat Sree Akal.

Are you talking about the same Hindus who have killed thousands of Sikhs, and then other Hindus elected them to be the leaders of India, instead of punishing them!!??

No, we should not create a state. We should just let Hindus kill all the Sikhs ( both culturally and physically) as they been doing with impunity for many decades now. Why don't you ask your hindu masters if they are going to punish Hindus who have killed thousands of Sikhs.

No not at all. That is when I realised. Sikhi ultimately is taking the Spiritual and the Temporal. The two go hand in hand. Temporal elements have a political elememt to it and Sikhs need political power. The best way to exercise that is to have your own nation. There is no way to get around politics which ever way we look at it. If you don't get that, then you are blind. Some of us don't get that the easy way.Some of us need a swift kick in the b***s to get that.

I know how you want this discussion want to go and I see through your game.I've seen your type before. We Sikhs are a nation. We deserve our country like every other people have their own nation.

I advocate a State that puts Sikhs first and Punjabi language first.

Just like India is a secular state, where you can kill thousands of Sikhs and NO Hindu goes to jail. In fact, they become ministers in this so called secular country.

There are two narratives around the issue of meat in Sikhism: one is that meat is not allowed, period. This is what is preached to the Sangat by, for lack of a better term, Sants and other groups who accept the practice of Naam Simran. The other is that jhatka meat prepared by those in Nihang-Khalsa-shasterdhari maryada is allowed. But such a maryada was not in place before, at the earliest, the 6th Guru Sahib. As for the practical effects of this sakhi on you, those around you, or your local Gurdwara, I wouldn't worry about it, since either if you're living abroad or in our homeland, 99% of Sikhs are not following Nihang Khalsa shasterdhari maryada.

Also I would urge people on the forum and online on here not to treat it as a laughing matter or laugh at these antics but rather feel deep anger and outrage about the beadhi that is going on. If we dont take this issue seriously and crack down on these vile animals who cause fights then we will witness a decline in people going gurdwara's as they will be know for fights and rather than a place for good sangat, peace and meditation. It is the enemies of Sikhs that want this to occur. If people have personal beef with each other they should settle it outside the premises of Guru's house not inside it. How dare do these people think they can get away with this?

Could it be that these fights are mostly started by indian government non-sikh agents? Any Sikh with at least w braincells knows you do not fight or start beef in a gurdwara unless you want to be shamed worldwide via CCTV or beaten up real bad by the sangat. So most of these guys who start fights clearly dont have any respect for Sikhs or Sikhi or Guru's darbar they must be excommunicated as non-sikhs, publicly named shamed and beaten to an inch of their lives. We have witnessed dozens of these incidents in recent years and if the impotent cucked akal takht jathedhar and western gurdwara commitee's wont take armed action against cowardly giddard culprits (who start physically assaulting people in gurdwara) then sangat must take action in my view they are at the same level as pedophiles, and terrorists.

Apparently, this behaviour is nothing to be ashamed of according to some. It's all part and parcel of our rich religious and cultural heritage. Can somebody name me a moment in Sikh history when one of our Guru Sahibs were present in the darbaar, and the sangat kicked off in this manner? I'd seriously like to know if there's any truth in the above assertion.