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Harpreet_Singh

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Everything posted by Harpreet_Singh

  1. I believe after the fall of Khalsa raj the Sikh population dropped. And 'sardars' did convert to Hinduism and Islam for monetary gain, and to gain favour in the new raj. Also, some sikhs that stayed after partition might have converted as well. So to say sikhs did not convert in our history is probably more romantic then anything.
  2. Bhai Sahib Bhai Jeevan Singh singing Chariter bani from dasam granth: I don't believe the AKJ is a very centralized body like Taksal or Nihung dals. When those jathas issue edicts from India or a main source it is followed by and large by individuals abroad. The AKJ abroad has varying opinions like general sangat, and can vary from person to person. Although it seems the majority believe in Dasam Bani, and historically, as proven above, the main individuals of AKJ have believed in dasam bani in its entirety.
  3. The movement for a physical "khalistan" is non existent in Canada. There is no lobbying by any major groups for this end goal. But there is definitely an awakening and mass organization in terms of exposing human rights abuses, justice being denied etc. I feel all this can fall under the banner of 'Khalistan'. Also, every major Gurdwara across the countries still hoists Khalistan banners and honours shaheeds, this is our right to never forget what these individuals faught for, even though we might not be lobbying for that exact goal.
  4. "The technique of surrender" can definitely differ, and it will have no effect on wether you achieve mukti or not. To say otherwise is complete nonsense, and borderline manmat. Unless there is some clear rehatnama that says otherwise, the 'technique' stated above is based on the opinions of the poster and/or the group of individuals he does sangat with. I feel it can be seen as divisive to make a blanket statement and say this is the gurmat way, making any other way manmat.
  5. From what I have seen Sikhs in America have been very pro active, organized and intelligent in their approach to educating the population about Sikhi post 9/11. (Pre 9/11 this was not a concern, and education was extremely limited) There are a few groups, namely Sikh Coalition & Saldef which have led in this regard. They have full time staff, offer internships, and are made up of lawyers, doctors and other professionals. In fact, in the United States these groups encourage anybody to report discrimination to them, and I believe they take cases on free of charge. They have had very tangible results in winning victories for Sikhs across America. They have educated numerous police forces across the country on Sikh beliefs as well, and insituted mandatory learning in these institutions. Distributed 'turban' pamphlets for several years now and several other projects. Also, the speakers they put forth are always articulate, and well spoken, which has clearly been the case after these shootings. In fact, just a couple of days ago I saw Dan Lemon of CNN in awe of a guest from Sikh Coalition, who was amazed that the Sikh Community was being inclusive after these events, and inviting all Americans to attend Gurdwaras near them on Sunday to learn more about the faith. These groups work together and have been very strategic in the message that they send out. One that is free of anger and resonates with American values. (Equality, hard work, helping those in need no matter what race etc). Now this does not mean that ignorance is not rampant. There are probably still parts of the U.S which are nto safe for Sikhs. This will probably NEVER change, unless there is a massive change in societal and cultural norms. It should be noted that a lot of this ignorance is just an American trait in general, there is a portion of the population that knows very little outside of the state or area they live in. Also, there are fewer areas in which a Sikh population is visible daily. Other then the coasts, and maybe Maryland, Sikhs live in small populations across the states, with a couple gurdwaras in the area, which only hold open programs a couple times a week (almost always on Sunday). So the sheer size of America also adds to the difficulty of spreading our message. So in a nutshell, yes, Americans have been organized and done a very good job all things considered. But it is definitely a work in progress.
  6. I feel a lot of blood was shed for Khalistan, a lot of mothers lost their sons and their pain is something we cannot comprehend. So to sit thousands of miles away and advocate any type of violent struggle is completely irresponsible. Unless you are directly on the front lines, we have no right to send our Punjabi brothers into a blood bath. Having said that, independance should always remain in our heart, and seen as an ultimate goal. However, it is probably number 100 on the list of things that should be accomplished first. Lets start with problems we can realistically solve right now, such as drug abuse, respect for our unborn sisters, fake baba's and deras, corruption, education, employment, infrastructure etc. Many of these issues are directly related to the current Punjab gov't, and have little to do with the central gov't. Having a few family members who are proud sikhs and employed by the Punjab police, I have had several conversations in which a lot of these problems have been explained to me. And issues such as drug abuse and its elimination is directly related to the Punjab sarkar turning a blind eye. Same can be said for the 9000 fake dera's across punjab. Lets focus on getting our own house in order first, which would take years on its own. A great start would be competent leadership and ridding Punjab of the bloodsucker Badal.
  7. Yes, I believe Hawara said he was not responsible. But Rajoana did mention that the cinema blasts were against the cause of Sikh freedom struggle. I was just speculating that maybe he thought it was Hawara, and that is why he said it. Nothing more then speculation, as Rajoana never said anybody's name. Also, do you guys know more about Resham Singh Germany and Joga Singh UK?
  8. Wjkk Wjkf Sangat jee, I had a question about the relationship between Rajoana and others that were accused in the Beant Singh assasination. This is possibly is a different topic, but I don't want to create a topic that is in anyway taking away from the unity of the panth. From what I have read in Bhai Balwant Singh jees letters is that he has a bit of a rocky relationship with Hawara. He never calls him out or anything, but does mention one incident in which he told Hawara not to use his name, as Hawara put out a letter saying Rajaona was being ill treated in jail, when in fact he said that he was in chardi kala. And Rajoana also mentions how the cinema blasts and such acts like that are a step backward for the movement. Possibly this was a shot at Hawara, who was implicated in that case. And then Hawara has also mentioned his ideological differences, also stated in the article above. Also, even though I can't divulge into the details, a family member of Hawara/Paramjit Singh (who is also accused, and broke out of jail with Hawara) told me an aboslutely amazing story about how those two met, how it was planned, how they were caught, how the prison break occured etc. And from Rajoana's letters there is differences in the stories. As Rajoana largely says it was him and Dilawar Singh. Again, this is not to take away from the unity of the panth, as even with some of teh differences between them they seem cordial and wish each other the best. But I am a bit curious, and was wondering if anybody could shed any light on further details. I request admins to delete any responses that talk ill of any of these singhs.
  9. Maybe this thread is a microcosm of why so many laugh at the idea of Sikhs having the organization to lobby and run an independant country. The man simply stated an opinion, and instead of respectful responses he gets that. The above msg is barely coherent, and these are the ppl advocating independance? So instead of calling him a donkey rider, white washed or whatever, respond in a respectful way and debate the issue. In fact, he lives in Punjab from what I gather, so his opinion should be that much more important. Because at the end of the day the rest of us are not even living (and probably never will live) in the land we want wish to liberate. I am not saying he is right or wrong, but the above comment would make any Khalistani seem like an <banned word filter activated>.
  10. From another msg board.. When Daas first heard about the appointment of Sumedh Saini as the new DGP of Police in Punjab by Badal, it brought back old memories of what we had to go through because of this dusht. Daas then thought of sharing this personal story with the forum members. I typed it but never felt like posting it. What will it achieve? Forum members will read it and then what. What do we gain by sharing all this? Who is really bothered? 21st century Sikhs are busy fighting among themselves on issues which have no relevance. Then others are happy that Badal is again back in government because he did a lot of development in Punjab. Then there are questions what is the alternatives as Bhai Kulbir Singh put it in another thread who do you vote for. So does typing all this painful experience is worth? Not sure. Daas leaves it to you all to decide that along with building up your jeevan through kamai what stand you need to take on Panthic front. Following is not a made up story. This is a personal experience of Daas’s family and every single word is true. Please note daas has changed the years/locations etc for reasons you all know: It was in early 90’s when the movement of Sikh homeland was at its peak. This was the time either just before or around when dusht Beantaa was chief minister of Punjab and KPS Gill was the DGP. Sumedh Saini was the SSP at that time. This was either Our father had gone to attend Kirtan samagam. One day suddenly we heard our doorbell ringing and as my mother opened the door there were policemen in plain clothes with machine guns and rifles. As far as daas can remember there were 6-7 vehicles full of them. All of them entered the home. Some went upstairs and remaining stayed downstairs. They started ripping apart every single corner of the house looking through the stuff. Two of them grabbed me to interrogate. Their head was interrogating my mother and sister, who was just 15 years old. They were looking for our father. Anyway this went on for nearly 3-4 hours. They picked up contact diaries, photo albums and whatever else they wanted and left. My youngest brother was 7 at the time. This all happened without any legal search warrants or without any valid reason. Even when they left we were completely in dark about why they had come. Next day we got phone call from our Babaji that my father had been picked up by some policemen along with another naujwaan Jatha singh. No one knew where they were taken. Next 7 days were like never ending days of our life when we had no clue where my father was. Then on the 8th day we finally got news that he was released. He travelled back from Chandigarh to home and reached us in the evening. As soon as he entered the home he could barely walk. His body was bruised. Earlier his beard was very long and it used to go beyond the navel point. But when he came back that day it was only few inches. It wasn’t cut but it looked like that hair had been pulled and broken. More than 85% of the beard hair had been removed. After saanjh of fateh he was served langar by our mother. Then we all sat with him surrounding him from all sides. What he told us in next 2-3 hours is something that daas can never forget throughout his life. Whatever is written after this is in his own words… “We were picked up by some plain clothes policemen from Punjab police and thrown in a Maruti Gypsy with black cloth tied to our eyes. Throughout the way they kept abusing us and kicking and hitting us. We don’t know how long it took to reach the interrogation center. When we reached there were no signs of police station of anything like that. It was in a remote place built like an industrial shed. As soon as we saw it we realised it was one of the CIA interrogation centres run by KPS Gill’s force. We were taken in handcuffed. When we reached there we were made to sit on the floor which was ice cold. Then the DSP Sita Ram came. As soon as he came he started slapping us and abusing us. He asked his constables to take of our kakaars and clothes. I kept fighting them as long as I could to stop them from taking of my kakaars. There were around 15 of them, kicking me with boots, slapping me… Then one of them slapped so hard that blood started coming out of my ear and I could not hear anything from that side. Eventually they managed to overpower and ripped all the clothes and took off kakaars as well. Even the kachera was not left on the body. For next 7 days we were like this without clothes. This was done to every singh they brough in to the place. Before starting on further tortures investigations this was their first step to humiliate and break the person by defying all modesty. Once they had taken off everything, they started kicking us and beating us with canes and it went on till we were unconscious. I don’t remember how long I was unconscious but it might have been few hours as by the time I came back to senses the sun was rising and it was next morning. As soon as they found that I was opening my eyes, two of them pulled me by hair and dragged me out to another room. This is where they had atleast 7-8 other singhs tied up with chains and roped to different corners. Some of them were being given electric shocks, others were being put on the pataa (an electric motorised machine which has leather flaps tied to it and it revolves and hits you very hard ripping apart the skin. I was thrown on the floor and two of them holded my hands and two legs. Then they brought a wooden plank and put it on my thighs. Two very heavy policemen stood on both sides and started moving it like a see-saw. During all the time they kept abusing me in filthy language, saying abusive words about Guru Sahib, about amritdharis. For these two days I was not even once asked or told why I was in this place. After having endured all this pain, the next part was electic shocks. They started with ears and then went on to give shock on other parts of the body till I passed out. Every time they moved me from one location to other, they used to drag me by either hairs or beard. We didn’t had any food or water for all these days. Then on fourth day I was told “Chal teri peshi hai saahab de kol” (Come it’s you appearance in-front of the Sahib). I was passed through a number of courtyards and taken to an open area which was paved with rough stone slabs. The scene there was unbearable to watch. They had drums full of human excretion filled with urine and toilet. Singhs were thrown on the floor and the choora will throw the drum full of the dirt on the singh. Then two of them will hold the legs or arms and drag from one side to the other on that rough concrete floor. Amazingly while this was done singhs were still shouting jaikaare and doing naam abhyaas loudly. Others who had not done abhyaas before in life were unable to bear the pain and were screaming in pain. When all of this was done I was thrown on one corner. Then someone came later and put 2-3 buckets of ice cold water on me to remove the dirt. The water was so cold it will give more pain on the fresh wounds. But by that time my body was getting used to this daily torture and I wan’t feeling anything. Then I was taken to the room where the darbar of Sumedh Saini was in progress. My turn came and saini asked me, “Fer akal aayi ke nahin tenu” (So are you back to senses?). I asked him about what? He said “Tu vadda khalistani banya firda hain.” I said when did I said anything about khalistaan. He shouted back with abuses and said “Tu jehde apne kanjraan nu Milan gaya si jail vich”. Then I realised why I was there. Few weeks back Jatha singhs had organised a visit to the jails to supply the singhs arrested with warm clothes and blankets. I was among the singhs who was given this seva. We were denied meeting with any prisoners but as I had to sign the register before entering the prison with Name and Address, they must have used it to track who is trying to look after the singhs in prisons. I told him I just went there as a humble sikh of Guru Sahib. As soon as I said Guru sahib he started shouting abuses and using filthy language about Dashmesh pita. Then told me in the end “Jaake keh daeen apne yaraan nu ki din thode hi han, kale kale nu ethe leaake maaroonga, paani mangan joge vi nahin rehne.” (Go and tell your friends that I will bring them all here one by one and kill them in a way they won’t even ask for water). Then he ordered his men to take me away and do sewa (torture) for few more days before disposing me. The next two days were the repeat of what had happened in last 5 days. On the 7th day I was told that Saini is willing to release me if I can give him the names of kharku singhs. I refused saying that I don’t know any kharkus and I am a central government employee and he will have to release me one day. I don’t know what happened next as he went away. I was taken in a dark room and they tied black cloth on my eyes and covered the face with a rucksack. I was driven out of the place and thrown in a field. Only words I heard after that were “Oye order taan tenu maaran da hoya hai par teri chitti daarhi dekhke pata nahin kyon taras aa gaya menu, jaa bhajj jaa” (Oye order is to kill you but looking at your white beard I feel mercy for you.) I was left in the field in the dark with my hands tied to my back. I somehow managed to drag to a tubewell and stayed there all night without any clothes and next morning I was picked up by the farm owner who helped me get out of there.”
  11. Wow, attacking Sikhnet? One of the main sources of sikhi to the West, that has done nothing but seva for the Khalsa Panth. This is very sad. Just visit the site Only Five. Here, I will make it easy for you. www.sikhnet.com. Maybe one day you will grow out of your phase of attacking everything that doesnt fit into your black and white version of what you think Sikhi is. And I would suggest a bit more respect when you are speaking to a fellow veer such as Gurmustak Singh veerjee. Just a reminder to the Sikhnet team that the Panth by and large supports you. Keep up the seva. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
  12. I saw a documentary the other day about firefighters who were going up one of the towers, telling ppl to run down because the building was going to collapse. Nobody in taht building had any idea that the other tower had already collapsed. The two firefighters highlighted in the doc directly saved 73 lives, and continued to go up the tower knowing that it was going to come down. That is true kurbaani. The ultimate sacrifice is to give someones life in that situation and not freeze in those circumstances. Numerous firefighters did this on 9/11.
  13. Yes, <banned word filter activated> George Bush who can barely string sentences together was apart of a mass consipiracy involving airline companies, thousands of ppl needed to wire the WTC for demolition, tons of gov't officials on all sides of the political spectrum. Yet today, these same ppl cannot even agree on the most basic of things such as raising a debt ceiling. We give politicians way too much credit. Most of em are not that smart, and in fact in the U.S presidents cannot even hide sex scandals. But keeping 10000+ ppl needed for such a conspiracy quiet is perfectly normal. Not everything in the world is a mass conspiracy. Sometimes <banned word filter activated> just happens. I cannot see how educated ppl in the west cannot separate fact from fiction. This all followed a very logical course of history. Bin Laden declared war on the west after fighting the russians. (Read his sons autobiography, it makes this all crystal clear) He was involved in bombings of the USS cole, U.S embassy's and spoke numerous times about a large scale attack on American soil. And then he did it. I have actually followed Bin Laden's life since the mid 90s, and about 1 year before the attack I predicted a very large scale attack by Al Qaeda on American soil. It was not hard to see, especially with Bin Laden's rhetoric toward American bases in saudi arabia. And I'm sure if there was even a hint of gov't conspiracy it would have came out in one of the millions of wikileak documents. Islamic extremists have been committing these acts for a long time, it was just another one of a larger scale. This is not to say that American military does not commit acts of state terror in iraq/afghanistan/south america etc. But in the case of 9/11, it is what it is. If anyone wants to find reasons to label Americans as the perpetrators of 9/11, use a more critical analysis of those events and speak of there foreign occupation of muslim countries which <Edited> off some jihadi's. Atleast that makes a bit of sense.
  14. I found your comments toward HinduVeer were very rude. I thought his post was informative. You have the responsibility to promote social harmony, not drive people of other faiths off the board. Singh take the lesson of Bh. Khaneya jee and understand that we are all just one in God's eyes.

  15. Please be careful in talking ill of an 'OG' such as Simranjit Singh Mann.His best years might be behind him, but we should never forget his tireless work in the 80s and all that he did. I recall speaking to someone from Badal's party through a family relation, and even he had nothing but good to say about Mann. It is way to easy to talk smack on the internet in foreign countries, he lived through it all and deserves some respect. Also, Panch Pardhani led by Daljit Singh Bittu is working in Sikh interests. Most of the people running for them are ex kharkoos or wives of shaheed singhs. And they have done a lot of work in exposing fake baba's, and hold a pro sikh soveirgnty stance. They broke from Mann because they decided he was not the best politician and hard to work with. But still have respect for him.
  16. Wow, that was amazing and blew me away. Here people are trying to create social harmony and find good out of a tragic situation. Yet people are still ready to bring them down. I find it amazing that anybody could say anything bad about that video above. It was nothing but peace and love between not just the sikh and muslim communities, but every community. Please, stop holding so much hatred in your heart and learn from Bhai Khaneya jee. We are all the same under God's eyes, he makes no distinctions between his children. So why should you?
  17. I think a question like this has way too many variables to be answered. What if the animal had killed twice as many lives in his previous janam? Doing x,y,z doesn't necessarily get you mukhti. It all comes down to Gurprasad, wether you save 1 life, or a 1000. Also, each individual situation is different. Osama Bin Laden could have saved a couple lives while fighting for mujhahadeen in Afghanistan, but he also killed thousands of others. Each situation is different and it is all up to Akal Purakh in the end. I am positive that his decision is always just. However, it does say in bani "Gobind milan kee eh teri baria". Animals can't join sangat and jaap naam. So animals will likely get a human life? Then again, I've also heard of sakhi's were animals in Guru Sahib time attained mukthi. So again, all in God's mauj.
  18. hahahah "what proof do you ahve sant ji is shaheed". HE HASN'T BEEN SEEN SINCE JUNE 6TH 1984! Do you honestly think Sant ji had the personality that would let him sit idly by while the movement was at its height in the 80s, and our sisters mothers were raped, and our singhs were killed in fake encounters. Do you think he would allow the rise of fake dera baba's extorting money from the sangat? Don't you think he would atleast visit his family? Comon man, this isn't a movie with a fairytale ending. This is real life, he isn't coming back, and its rediculous some people still believe this. And lets say he did magically come back. What is the first question the sangat will ask of him.. Where were you when our sisters and brothers were butchered across punjab and on the streets of delhi for a decade? He would not have any support. But again, he is shaheed so it doesnt matter. And denying is shaheedi at this point is wrong on soooo many levels.
  19. I haven't gone through the replies so my apologies if someone has already said this. In my opinion this issue might revolve more around what type of girl you are looking for. If you are looking for the typical 'punjabi' girl, I'm sorry but someone who ties their beard and has a dastaar is not what they are generally looking for. If you are looking to marry a singhnee, or someone who is strong in their sikhi, the also might not be looking for a sardaar who ties his beard. You might be stuck in no man's land my friend. There are some girls who don't mind marrying a sardaar with a tied beard, we have all seen this before. But the options seem a lot more limited. My suggestion would be to open your dhardi, make your sikhi visible physically, try to get introduced to an amritdari bibi, or someone who is 'religious', and take it from there. Reality is singhnees aren't attracted to the tied dhardi, and punjabi girls arent either. Also, try going through family and friends to meet someone, doing it on your own rarely works.
  20. My apologies if this offends anyone, but I don't understand what the big deal is? I thought the riots brought the UK sikh and muslim communities together? And, the death of those 3 men was a big part of the riots for which Sangat TV got its fame worldwide. Isn't it just responsible journalism to do follow up reporting on those events? ie. report on the funerals. I don't think Sangat Tv should simply go back to broadcasting as normal after such a significant event that was the riots. Atleast for a few weeks there should be follow up reporting, and the promotion of more unity. And who cares if muslim channels would do the same or not. When did we start comparing ourselves to others. Maybe that is the point, nobody else would do it, but our community will continue to display to the world the results of the riots and how and brought together communities. Just my opinion.
  21. Maybe the issue is what you are asking for. Ask for naam, the ability to wake up at amritvela etc. with faith. And if you truley want these things they will come true Gurprasad (with guru sahibs grace)
  22. I personally don't believe in massive conspiracies by Jewish backed free mason's and all that. So I won't comment on that. But to those who doubt the Singh Sabha Movement is shameful. About a decade after Maharaja Ranjit Singh's raj the sikh population fell to approximately 1.8 million. We were literally on the brink of dissapearing. It was in large part due to the Singh Sabha that this all turned around. I don't have the numbers infront of me, but the growth in sikh population during Singh Sabha are staggering. I bet a lot of our families sikh heritage can be traced back to the movement. We should be indebted to those Singhs forever.
  23. To fully grasp the language, you would likely have to go to Punjab and maybe even enroll in a college course of some sort. (see the youtube video of the person from canada) Don't feel discouraged that you cannot understand the granthi at the gurdwara. You will find that even those sikhs born in the west, who have spoken Punjabi in a family environment since they were born still have difficulty understanding granthi's and katha. To improve your vocabulary enough to get to that point you would have to go to India.
  24. Wjkk Wjkf These blogs are exactly how technology should be used. Sometimes I feel we get lost in the bickering of controversial topics on msg boards, and fill ourselves with hate and division. Amazing seva. And I agree wih Singhstah, those two blogs you mentioned have inspired me immensely.
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